Death Curse

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Hmmm. I give you the Tayl0r point, Isis. It's really just because in the game I played with her I spent almost the /entire game/ death-tunnelling her before I replaced out, and I got intimately familiar with her playstyle. Unfortunately, her playstyle could be equally at home in either alignment; fortunately, I don't see any changes from previous-Tayl0r that make me think I need to be concerned. There's a mismatch but its one of those "you had to be there" sorta things, I'd bet a box of Cheez-Its Noraa and Tayl0r can see how I end up typing that out that way.

I don't give you the Shelly part. I got fooled one hundred percent in the scum game she played against me: the only time I even sniffed something amiss was near the very end, but I was hoping the other conftown in the game was going to make an argument in favor of a scum-Shelly so I could reframe my view of her, but instead we both were fooled. I still cannot see how she was scum in her earlier play that game, there is no tell I can spot, I'm just staring in confusion. Even pretending I can read that slot is a mistake. I am worthless with Shelly, absolutely, positively worthless. I thought I could read her and I was so wrong that even with full knowledge and rereading, only the very endgame pings me /at all/. Long story short: I'm not curious because I'm terrified. Honestly, you should be too.

But that's just explaining stuff that you've said you aren't sure matters anymore.

Here's a question for you: how'd you end up with me as the best scumread that isn't Hopkirk there for a little bit? Like, I don't see how something this slim, this weak, gets me preference over everyone else you shaded. Could say it was pressure, but you put no strength behind it at all, so I'm going to dismiss that option: claiming it would be a cop-out and wouldn't make sense.

What else? Could say it was a gambit to draw reads out of other players. Could say it was legitimate, and you thought I was the second most likely scum on the board.

The post itself suggests that last one. Care to explain how I ended up there?

[shellyc]

I don't give you the Shelly part. I got fooled one hundred percent in the scum game she played against me: the only time I even sniffed something amiss was near the very end, but I was hoping the other conftown in the game was going to make an argument in favor of a scum-Shelly so I could reframe my view of her, but instead we both were fooled. I still cannot see how she was scum in her earlier play that game, there is no tell I can spot, I'm just staring in confusion. Even pretending I can read that slot is a mistake. I am worthless with Shelly, absolutely, positively worthless. I thought I could read her and I was so wrong that even with full knowledge and rereading, only the very endgame pings me /at all/. Long story short: I'm not curious because I'm terrified. Honestly, you should be too.

can I sig some of this

re: fidget, imo being SR'd as scum can garner emotion reactions as well, but im willing to consider your points. still , overreacting to 2 (?) people that are pushing you isn't a great look

also isis are you the type of player that thinks every post is AI

[shellyc]

curiosity is not AI, if you dislike curiosity doesn't mean everyone who isn't curious is scum

logical inconsistencies coming from an emotionally-driven person isn't AI as well

[MUSHSHAGANA]

If you want something sigworthy, shelly, I would hold off. That stuff just isn't great, I can break out my creative writing skills and give you something that will shine if you /really/ want to sig it. (I normally don't do that without explicit request though, because it can come across as pointlessly rude rather than hilariously over the top when it's unexpected.)

If you just think it's neat, then go nuts.

[shellyc]

scumclaimers dont live. i think isis partnered with noraa seeing LLD absolutely dictate this game might sacrifice, not the highest possibility tho

[shellyc]

could you at least find somehting real to scum read me for so I can pretend that feeling like you might be town has some merit to it?

this is like, the core problem of isis' play here
they're making SRs and putting people at top of scumlist for very weak reasons like "LAMIST" and "lack of curiosity"

which is why i don't TR them at all and they seem kinda overconfident in things which I wouldn't expect as town.

[Isis]

Noraa is scummier than either of you, which is why people should stop voting her, so that she is eligible to get the scroll third.

To the extent I maybe thought LLD was scummier than you back then, I'd still hesitate to push LLD because she's an extremely charismatic player and it's not realistic to push her until there's also incriminating associatives or something extremely strong. Noraa seems so likely to flip scum I'm letting a bit of preflip assoc leak in and dampen that read, though, so I can't say for sure how I would have ranked the two of you.

I don't see anyone else in the "shade" post, but I do see that I townread two people, not one, so I demand shelly correct her scoreboard!

pedit: no, I don't think everything is AI. Something like 98% of posts would be AI if you were omniscient and maybe like half of them have something to them that's worth trying to treat the post as sortable for a human person.

[shellyc]

I don't see anyone else in the "shade" post, but I do see that I townread two people, not one, so I demand shelly correct her scoreboard!

i change it when i please
noraa is at -10
bell is at -7
isis is at -4
mush is at 6
pooky is at 7
fidget is at 7
LLD is at 8

[Isis]

I'm not very confident. I like having my vote somewhere at all times, that's how I play. And everyone's readslist has to have a top and bottom, if the person I think is the scummiest doesn't have much I can list, that means my overall reads for the game happen to not be strong.

[shellyc]

ok consider that as a readslist of reasonably active people

@isis if not everything is AI why are you finding extremely weak reasons to read people and making something out of nothing

[shellyc]

oh and I turned pedits off

I'm not very confident. I like having my vote somewhere at all times, that's how I play. And everyone's readslist has to have a top and bottom, if the person I think is the scummiest doesn't have much I can list, that means my overall reads for the game happen to not be strong.

this comes from more town than scum imo
its genuine and self reflective which I don't really expect from scum
+1 townpoint

[Isis]

fidget is at 10 I already want to bet the game on Fidget town

pedit: there's often tonal or difficult to articulate points that are also affecting my read, but I have to present the things that people can engage with

[shellyc]

add TS to the list as townlean for the records

can't see scum!TS making that play towards LLD at all

[shellyc]

pedit: there's often tonal or difficult to articulate points that are also affecting my read, but I have to present the things that people can engage with

Isis you play the style i find easiest to engage with which is good

what do you think of the pooky slot atm

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I genuinely think Noraa is hilariously doomed town. This was really kind of like, uhh, shit I don't know. Dropping a compact SUV on a kitten? It's just an overwhelmingly anti-Noraa game in a lot of ways, because I'm seeing an eager and experienced town out for blood and Noraa just sort of plays Mafia the way I browse for groceries. This matchup always ends in Noraa going down. There is no survival possible for Noraa in this player list, regardless of alignment.

My town read is based on stuff I can't /really/ convince anyone with, so why am I bothering to bring it up again?

Honestly, I just sort of started typing and then I imagined Noraa as an unspeakably adorable cartoon cat staring up with big watery eyes at a cartoon anvil the size of a small house falling towards her with the words "Death Curse Mafia Game" slapped on the side in big red block letters and I knew I had to share with the class.

[Isis]

I want to call Pooky's accusation of ghostwriting difficult to fabricate. Maybe I shouldn't though since a sudden shift in grammar pattern is like, a neutral thing to notice, and then when you type up a post to remark on it you could go "hey, this is spinnable?" I want to townread him but I'd definitely like to supplement that reasoning. That was the thing I remember finding most remarkable

[shellyc]

I genuinely think Noraa is hilariously doomed town. This was really kind of like, uhh, shit I don't know. Dropping a compact SUV on a kitten? It's just an overwhelmingly anti-Noraa game in a lot of ways, because I'm seeing an eager and experienced town out for blood and Noraa just sort of plays Mafia the way I browse for groceries. This matchup always ends in Noraa going down. There is no survival possible for Noraa in this player list, regardless of alignment.

My town read is based on stuff I can't /really/ convince anyone with, so why am I bothering to bring it up again?

Honestly, I just sort of started typing and then I imagined Noraa as an unspeakably adorable cartoon cat staring up with big watery eyes at a cartoon anvil the size of a small house falling towards her with the words "Death Curse Mafia Game" slapped on the side in big red block letters and I knew I had to share with the class.

lol

ftr i would still like you to explain it for associative down the line, but this is like bussing without getting cred. Mush is obvtown with noraa associatives

[Isis]

664 reads like a townpost to me no matter what noraa flips tbh

[shellyc]

I want to call Pooky's accusation of ghostwriting difficult to fabricate. Maybe I shouldn't though since a sudden shift in grammar pattern is like, a neutral thing to notice, and then when you type up a post to remark on it you could go "hey, this is spinnable?" I want to townread him but I'd definitely like to supplement that reasoning. That was the thing I remember finding most remarkable

Shelly liked this post

ok isis can be in null zone for now im satisfied

I call them out and they actually engage with the game vs. bell who overreacted and didn't have a solving mindset at all

[shellyc]

664 reads like a townpost to me no matter what noraa flips tbh

all the mush posts read super town

mush has a reeeeally distinct playstyle and hard to fake as scum

[MUSHSHAGANA]

For my part, I'm building a picture around Isis. Theories haven't been panning out in either direction, a lot of "dead neutral and I still have to accept it" outcomes. But I have a box of associatives to stare at now, so I should be able to sit back and watch the thread to get reads there more or less passively.



For now, I want content from our lurkers. UNOwen is giving me nothing and giving the thread nothing. Zdenek is low-information and has mostly been engaging with mechanics. Adorable, to be fair, is busy, but I'd really like to see engaging with multiple points in the thread and not just a single question per, uh, 8 hour period. VaultDweller just plain doesn't initiate engagement, which makes their 7 posts a barren desert devoid of all association. Lapsa has no questions to ask and no input to offer aside from saying the game sucks because Isis got away with the scum-claim -- which, I mean, fair... but useless for sorting them.

[shellyc]

For my part, I'm building a picture around Isis. Theories haven't been panning out in either direction, a lot of "dead neutral and I still have to accept it" outcomes. But I have a box of associatives to stare at now, so I should be able to sit back and watch the thread to get reads there more or less passively.

fill me in on where you're at

I'm pretty torn on isis, think where you're at can give me some different insight

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, except temporally flipped. Sound good?



Isis has little contribution to actually advancing the game outside of the most gross and graceless mechanical methods of advancement possible (e.g. beginning the scroll-pass process by brute force). Reads are meatless, and by her own admission the order of who's scummiest owes more to "looks like scum if you squint at a snapshot and ignore everything that might be out of frame" than any potential pattern of behavior. (Noraa is an exception there but we all know how I feel on Noraa.)

The gross and graceless advancement attempt was either a galaxy brain gambit one way or a galaxy brain gambit the other way, and no matter which direction you look at it was both risky and dumb. Given that LLD was the target (which I thought was the case the moment she mentioned hitting an otherwise untouchable slot) I immediately figured that this was going to be accepted and we'd see the funniest red flip ever ever ever in order to knock out a strong town leader early on. (Namely, immediately my brain jumped to scum gambit for functional immunity since why would scum ever play that stupid.)

Isis's ability to tilt LLD and refusal to back up and create space when LLD tried to disengage and reframe, just hinting that the scumometer was ticking down while still needling, that also struck me as a bit on the scummy side.

Pause here, step back. Flipside: I know absolutely nothing about Isis.

I have never played a game with Isis in it.

Multiple other players here are apparently familiar with Isis, and none of them are calling this an Isis scum move. Including tilty LLD.

Either this whole thing is scum theater with Isis, LLD and Pooky all looking red, which would be a hilariously unlikely coincidence... or Isis isn't as scummy as my initial reaction would paint her. My knowledge gap can't be filled here, I'm forced to throw my hands up and say "it's a null I guess".

What've you got for me?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

On a quick reread, I could also see a world where Isis and Pooky are red and LLD is green here. Gambit's still dumb as hell, but Pooky takes a LOT of the sting out of the risk and there's an interesting progression I see in the posts where it goes from "Calm Down LLD" as the primary goal to "Casting Doubt on Isis-as-Scum Possibilities", maintaining rapid contact and identical writing tone throughout. Interesting that Isis keeps needling throughout, but that mostly helps sell the illusion being offered if it's a Pooky+Isis team.

[shellyc]

Basically
I dislike reading people according to mech. and i think brute force isn't that bad tbh
Pre-game rethink thoughts on Isis:
Their "am I locktown yet" sounded rather lamisty, and they basically shaded everyone other than fidget in the catchup post which is scummy, simply because keeping the poe wide is the core of scum agenda
isis then TR's bell without much explanation at all weirdly
not much explanation for any reads at all and weak reasoning (but explained later that they wanted to make reads, which is protown)
the huge self vote gambit seemed rather plausible with LLD being on point, but ehhhh its on the verge of throwing
Post-game rethink thoughts:
some reads > no reads imo, the admission that their reads might not be the strongest felt genuine, engaging with me at my request read had a townie tone
they pretty much did opposite of flailing
so overall im just null there.

isis trying to vote elsewhere with noraa might be notable in terms of associatives, but thats like bussing without getting the cred again