Death Curse

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I'm going to be honest: I bet Noraa probably skimmed the setup at some point along the line and totally forgot not just the info in it but that she had read it. Not because I think that's typical of Noraa, but because I literally did that exact thing and when I spotted Noraa's "townslip" post I had to go "wait a second /do/ we know the number of scum?" People, as in humans, all humans, are idiots by nature and bombarded with information. Things end up misplaced.

Consider: The outrage of an honest mistake, followed by an even dumber mistake, followed by maybe secretly realizing after the fact that you did in fact read it and your brain just betrayed you for 6 hours and now you're locked into actually lying because telling the truth legitimately looks even worse at this point...

I have /lived/ this. And Noraa's personality seems prone to that sort of dumb mistake, when it happens, spiraling out of all proportion.

This is all personal anecdotes and projection, so it's garbage and if it changes your mind you should feel bad, but it's where I'm coming from on the "townslip" side of things.

[Fidget]

Oh this will be fun.

I like Mushy's tone, and that coupled with reports he could not have this kind of performance as scum puts him down as town for me. I like the way he's gone about defending Norra better than tayl0r did, but I may be getting a little confirm biased since I think in general Mush looks better than tayl0r.

I know I've just been going with the flow, but here's some of my hot takes. I don't understand all the tip toeing, this isn't like a normal setup where town has to stop talking once we flip someone. There's still scenarios where Noraa flips town and I'd rather have time after that first Noraa "flip" and after we have more info to come to a decision about flips 2 and 3. Also this is like the most fun setup to get miselimed in so I don't really understand why town Noraa would be so upset, but whatever. I think odds of hitting 2 scum day 1 are higher if we flip Noraa scum and get LLD confirmed early than if we try to go backdoor, and I think if we flip 2 scum today we win outright. I don't think town Noraa venges LLD out of spite. If this is town Noraa I want to know sooner rather than later.

I think the attitude I'm going to take is "I will work with Noraa, but under the pretense she is dying today." So a win either way. I agree that town!Noraa probably doesn't venge LLD out of spite, or at least I'd certainly hope so.

I have read 20 pages since from where I last left off and I still haven't fully caught up. I'm still scum reading Noraa and I'm also scum reading Unowen because once when Noraa started to get defensive and all those votes piled up on her, Unowen says the wagon on Noraa looks promising and then randomly shaded me about my vote on Noraa which looked sus.

--->

Ah yes, I knew that my vote against Noraa would lead to good things.
The wagon looks promising, Noraa's reaction to the pressure has indeed been flaily.
Adorable's vote was not great.

I do not find this post scummy if you assume Noraa to be scum. Are you saying one of the two is scum, or that they are scum together for this?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Nothing too important, but watch the pronouns for me, folks.

[Fidget]

I have enough respect for Noraa as a player to believe that if town she does not kill someone she thinks is town, regardless of what she is saying right now.

then do you think Taylor is scum here? she states that pooky is scum and LLD is town but very anti town so she will kill LLD.
This is in fact my exact reasoning(except I don't think pooky is scum) and I actually said that was why I was going to kill LLD before Taylor did. I believe LLD is likely to be town but she squashes all opinions that don't agree with hers and is overly confident and aggressive.

Killing someone simply because you think they are anti-town, rather than for actual scummy reasons, just screams that you are scum trying to justify a bad shot.

pedit: Oh, my bad

[MURDERCAT]

@MUSH, Yeah I mean I didn't ask it with the intention of having my mind changed. I guess my reaction is to like, look it up? Instead of posting that.

For me it doesn't really mean Noraa is lock scum but it does mean that we flip Noraa today because I don't want it in the back of my mind all game

[MUSHSHAGANA]

If I thought I had the most distant hope of actually making a good argument in favor of saving her, I'd prefer to give her the rest of this dayphase effectively immunized -- barring Isis-outburst-tier bad play, of course. But since we can basically guarantee that Noraa is doomed, I just want to make sure we hit some other scum slot. Worst case scenario is hitting all town. Let's Not Do That.

[Noraa]

Noraa, once again, why fight it? Like, you aren't 3p survivor, you are (according to you) a vengeful townie who could be a hero and flip scum.

I don't like dying before I can actually make an impact on the game. I have zero impact if I die day 1 bc of the way I play mafia. Though I don't understand. Why even interact with me if you are just gonna be another stubborn players that's gonna SR me? Plus I'm really disappointed you can't tell this is my town game considering you have straight up PLAYED with town me before

[Noraa]

I'm going to be honest: I bet Noraa probably skimmed the setup at some point along the line and totally forgot not just the info in it but that she had read it. Not because I think that's typical of Noraa, but because I literally did that exact thing and when I spotted Noraa's "townslip" post I had to go "wait a second /do/ we know the number of scum?" People, as in humans, all humans, are idiots by nature and bombarded with information. Things end up misplaced.

Consider: The outrage of an honest mistake, followed by an even dumber mistake, followed by maybe secretly realizing after the fact that you did in fact read it and your brain just betrayed you for 6 hours and now you're locked into actually lying because telling the truth legitimately looks even worse at this point...

I have /lived/ this. And Noraa's personality seems prone to that sort of dumb mistake, when it happens, spiraling out of all proportion.

This is all personal anecdotes and projection, so it's garbage and if it changes your mind you should feel bad, but it's where I'm coming from on the "townslip" side of things.

I never understood why people had such huge reactions to that and it was weird on my end but I mean it got me defensive and here we are. Honestly, if I was scum, I would've just been like I completely forgot I read this. I wouldn't be like um so I read it all and I remember every single part except the important part :/

[MURDERCAT]

I don't like dying before I can actually make an impact on the game. I have zero impact if I die day 1 bc of the way I play mafia. Though I don't understand. Why even interact with me if you are just gonna be another stubborn players that's gonna SR me? Plus I'm really disappointed you can't tell this is my town game considering you have straight up PLAYED with town me before

1. There is one completed game where you are town. I don't know your scum game.

2. I have tried to interact with you a lot because if you are town I want you to hit scum with your shot

3. You can literally still talk for like a week even if you get the scroll today and you can shoot a scum.

[Noraa]

Also I already pointed this out earlier but if I wanted to get towncred thru a townslip as scum, I would just say something like "ok guys we got 4 scums to find" and it would benefit me literally millions of times more.

[Fidget]

Isis is being replaced.

Will post a request in the replacement queue when I'm not on mobile.

Aw.

I'm specifically interested in the following players giving me a Hopkirk read especially.

UNOwen
Bell
Zdenek
Shelly
Adorable
Theta
Lapsa

These people, please read Hopkirk and give me a read. "Null" is not a read unless you can justify it real well, please. I want you to lean TOWN or SCUM essentially "would you kill Hopkirk?"

Anyone who isn't reading LLD as town playing like they have 5 seconds to live is crazy.

No hopkirks jumping on my wagon wasn't even explained well and he just sheeped everyone. that's 100% LHF vibes there

Maybe you're looking for the term for a player that constantly jumps on LHF. "Opportunistic", maybe. I do not even recall Hopkirks vote, but needless to say there's only been one wagon so far so evaluating someone as opportunistic for voting

just

you may be premature.

youre assuming hopkirk dies today now. which proves that youre assuming we just follow your plan and that you arent trying to sort hopkirk with this wagon but just push someone.

im gonna take a break from this thread. im not gonna engage lld any more, because im getting very legitimately angry and nothing good is going to come of this. lld has proven that she has no interest in engaging with me as an honest broker. she just wants to paint me as scum.

This is always quite frustrating to be on the receiving end of. Town dictates the game as if they've only got one day to solve it, rapid fire gets a read on every player, then tries to control where the elim goes (obviously). Can be hit or miss but either way I hate to be tunneled by a big personality cause usually they don't have the time to really deeply engage every slot and they kinda just end up putting people into bins and going from there.

Taylor's right. You are just SRing everyone that doesnt agree with you.

where did Hopkirk disagree with LLD?

Feels like Noraa is more or less just saying things at this point, which is probably just a product of frustration more than it's AI.

[Fidget]

Also I already pointed this out earlier but if I wanted to get towncred thru a townslip as scum, I would just say something like "ok guys we got 4 scums to find" and it would benefit me literally millions of times more.

Why would anyone say that

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa, I'll be more explicit. Given we are flipping you today, I am currently treating you as conf town because if you're scum it doesn't matter. So if you want to play being treated as conf town, now is the time.

[Fidget]

both town!Swift and scum!Swift seem fascinating and too bold to be true here, in different ways. It's interesting

Hahahaha she has that effect sometimes doesn't she

no you arent. because no one else is allowed to have opinions. so the only read people can get is "this person agreed/disagreed with lld"

wait how is LLD preventing you from having an opinion lol

Yeah this is what I don't get.

People are complaining they don't have control of the town because people are listening to me.

Then convince others that your ideas are right then. It's a game of argument. Argue! Make points!
LMFAO

i started by making a point about the gamestate. rather than engage me you fucking started shouting me down and saying i was scumclaiming. you want to degrade this to a shitfight? fine. but youre an awful person for playing like this.

Hm, hm, hm. I'm tempted to say from what I've seen that I'd be lashing out at LLD too if she spoke to me like she did to Isis (and presumably tayl0r when I get to that part).

I don't think Pooky is town.

i dont think so either. i think lld is town but really fucking misguided on a big fucking ego trip thats really shitty for everyone else. but i think pooky is scum for the way hes latched on and is egging lld on but not doing any solving.

I'll keep this is in mind for later, I think.

lld seriously you need to stop posting. this isnt scumhunting. this isnt team play. this isnt productive. this is you on a big fucking ego trip. and it needs to stop. because it isnt fun for anyone else. and youre wrong. and youve convinced yourself that you cant be wrong because youre town leader, and therefore you cant be questioned. so anyone who questions you must be scum, because you already figured everything out for us. except youre wrong. and youre disastrously wrong. and listening to you is going to be awful for town.

Mm okay, I've seen enough. I townread tayl0r now. Let's go 3 for 3 on the emotion reads this game. Bell, Tayl0r, LLD.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I'm not willing to give Bell a town pass on emotion yet, because I'm a big soft dipshit and claiming emotional vulnerability will get you an instant pass from me right up to the point of being game throwing.

My reads thus far are mooostly based on play and recognition of coherent town reasoning (or lack thereof). Noraa's the odd one out.

[Fidget]

This is probably needless to say, but I don't think Tayl0r's reaction to (presumably as I will read) a Hopkirk wagon is indictative of Noraa/Tayl0r/Hopkirk being a perfect solve.

Pooky you're a bad influence on me this game.

I'm turning into Fate, with less rage issues.

I think you are maybe worse influence for me because I feel more like old me than new me :3

Is old you more aggressive and provocative?

Oh, I'm out of time for reading. I like town's chances even if Noraa is town. That being said I sincerely hope she is scum, or I have no hope in reading her town game.

I'm not willing to give Bell a town pass on emotion yet, because I'm a big soft dipshit and claiming emotional vulnerability will get you an instant pass from me right up to the point of being game throwing.

My reads thus far are mooostly based on play and recognition of coherent town reasoning (or lack thereof). Noraa's the odd one out.

Happens to me sometimes. I am trying to up the threshhold for my emotion tell. I used to give it out even more liberally. Maybe you are right on Bell but I am certain on LLD and feel good about tayl0r.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I don't scumread Bell either, to be fair. I have absolutely no reads on them, I can't pull thought processes or cause and effect out of that ISO.

[Noraa]

This is my first large theme that I didn't replace into like day 3. I don't fucking wanna die day 1. Is that really hard to understand? This game has been nothing but frustrating. Lets have a quick rundown of how this game has gone from my pov:

I am one of the last people to /in and didn't realize the game even started until it was like 6 pages in
I skim the pages and see this one part where isis says if anyone has setup questions, they can ask her because she reviewed the setup. I wanted to know how many scums there were but at the time I wasn't sure if I was allowed to ask or if she was allowed to answer so I asked her if I was allowed to ask how many scums there are.
Pooky immediately said I was scum for it.
I didn't understand at first but quickly realized that it was smack dab in the middle of the sign up thread and that's why it was weird I didn't know. I remembered the blurb thingie that was like UT talking to Hectic and I also remembered seeing the plist but I didn't remember seeing the setup info.
Also Pooky pulled out a quote from my last scum game where I said I fake townslips in every scum game. The problem is literally how tf does that mean I don't townslip as town? Plus this wasn't even a townslip. Its literally just me not paying attention and being careless when reading the OPs.
LLD brings up that I was really excited for the game on a discord server which annoyed me so much cuz being excited =/= I will be reading all the OPs plus discord = outside influence
Then I rack up 4 votes really fast and my subconscious starts panicking. Why? I already explained. CUZ I NORMALLY DEAL IN NEWBIE AND NORMAL GAMES. Fucking god. In newbie, 4 votes is E-1 and in normal, its like E-3. I started flailing like I always do under pressure cuz my subconscious was like you are about to die Noraa.
But think about it from my perspective. Pooky mentioned it and right away like 4 people vote me and immediately start tunneling like hell.
LLD gives it a fat push and I'm literally just trapped. Like what can I do under that much pressure? And all I see is that everyone is sussing me and anyone that says I'm town is getting immediately squashed by LLD
I decide to ignore and try to effort a reads list out and all I get is a few people saying "wow so scummy Noraa"
I try to solve and Fos some other people, and I just get OMGUSed. And it's fine for them. Why? Cuz town's determined I was lock scum since page 10 and everything I say is scummy. Everything I do is scummy. Everything can be twisted to "prove" I'm scum.
My wagon piles up to E-2 in 1 singular rl day with 9 whole fucking votes.
Take a hot look at the game and how its been from my pov. Town gave me zero chances. I reacted badly but is it my fault for reacting badly when I'm getting death tunneled 10 pages into a completely new type of game for me?
This is a shit ton of AtE but I am frustrated and I feel like town has not given me a single chance since page 10. All that has happened is more death tunneling.
It's so funny that I have to say the most pleasant time I've had in this game happens to be rn where everyone is like ok she's gonna die so I don't need to pay attention or death tunnel her anymore cuz its now unnecessary.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Is old you more aggressive and provocative?

old me is a lot more aggressive and probably slightly insane.

[Noraa]

I am not caught up and I'm not posting on this thread tomorrow because I am really done with this game. I wanna bail like Isis but I'd feel shit that my successor would have to put up with more bullshit tunneling especially if my successors a newbie that can't handle death tunneling. I am taking a break from this game. You wanna give me the scroll while I'm away? Go. Do it. I don't care what anyone says or how fucking antitown it looks, I am giving it to LLD when I'm back.

[Noraa]

^or the rest of today

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Noraa

For the health of the game I think we should just do this

[Hoctac]

I

[Hoctac]

am

[Hectic]