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Post Post #4275 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:24 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 4235, Tanner wrote:does scum!krazy ever no-kill in order to open up the "endgame PoE"?

why? and who'd you clear as scum here?

also can you pls answer what your mindset was yesterday, why you were fine having nacho executed when pretty much your only scumread other than be just flipped green and i was the main pusher?
To answer the third one -- I actually feel like, outside of our mutual tunnel, we'd been approaching the game relatively similarly? While I hadn't really liked your reads earlier in the game, as things went on and we gained more information, I felt like I could understand your perspective a little more. I would say the biggest thing here by far is how you were treating Lavender. I initially had thought it was kinda scummy the way you were emphasizing her as town since it seemed like maybe white knighting, after alisae and nacho came in arguing she was scum I kinda realized it was maybe more townie to just establish baseline points than white knighty.

Beyond that I'm not sure I agree you were the main pusher on Hectic? Wasn't that more Pooky? In any case I didn't really think your approach to Hectic that day was scummy.

On the second one, I feel like as scum I'd probably clear Alisae and Lavender? I'm less sure on Lavender, but I really don't get why Alisae wasn't cleared given how consistently Prism was townread

For the first one, that's a kinda complicated question. The thing is, there's three related points here--no killing twice, clearing you, and how I view the game. In isolation, I suppose there are worlds where I would no kill if it offered some sort of clear and demonstrable strategic advantage. But the thing is, I hate playing scum, and I would want the game to be over as soon as possible. So for me to no kill there would have to be some sort of massive strategic advantage of doing so. In the context of this game... that does not seem to be the way it's played out. In a world of Krazy!Scum, I would be no killing to kill one of the clears, right? But... at least, going into day 3, I personally saw both Prism and Lavender as completely clear. So... I would be... no killing... to dismantle mechanical clears... while then also giving the game an extra free clear in you (Tanner) for the purpose of sacrificing a kill on one of the townread players? That's putting aside the simple fact that I hate scum... I don't see how no killing only to clear you would offer me~as scum~any strategic advantage whatsoever, particularly over the chance to kill another player instead. While I think scum no killing to play around the mechanical clears makes sense sort of abstractly, I don't see how it makes sense for me specifically at all.

I guess this is tricky since I wasn't really actively pushing you yesterday, but I feel like that is probably related to why scum cleared you, but not why *I as scum* would clear you. If I am no longer pushing you actively, and if you get the towncred of a clear, then I can see why scum would think you would push me and have more momentum because obviously I look really shitty for having pushed you so much this game. For me to be scum this game, I would have had to have done the thing I would almost never do this game (prolong the game)... only to then randomly waste it by innoing you? Like I don't want to insult scum, I think I kinda get what they're going for here, but I think if I was me thinking of me being scum I think I'd have to think I was a dumbass lol
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Post Post #4276 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:33 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 4254, Lavender wrote:Brings the question of why would Scum Krazy choose Tanner?
I think there was a mafia term for something like this but I can’t remember what it was
the term is wifom, which mastina coined to refer to "wine in front of me" in reference to the princess bride

but uhhh the amount of suicidal decisions I would have had to have made this game to be scum would be putting an awful lot of bank onto wifom to the point that I don't really see how the theoretical benefit would possibly outweigh the very tangible cost
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Post Post #4277 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:36 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

krazy. if ur town why did the scum not just leave you and tanner unconf'd and let you 2 go at each other?
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Post Post #4278 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:36 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 4270, Tanner wrote:oh no now i wanna vote alisae

someone yell at me, is this an evil bear poisoning my thoughts
yeah I really don't see why prism replaces out because chara replaces out in a world of prism scum unless like, she felt sooooo bad about making chara mad at that point that she no longer wanted to play but if so why would she have gone through the weird clearing then fossing theater in the first place?
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Post Post #4279 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:37 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 4275, Krazy wrote:For the first one, that's a kinda complicated question. The thing is, there's three related points here--no killing twice, clearing you, and how I view the game. In isolation, I suppose there are worlds where I would no kill if it offered some sort of clear and demonstrable strategic advantage. But the thing is, I hate playing scum, and I would want the game to be over as soon as possible. So for me to no kill there would have to be some sort of massive strategic advantage of doing so. In the context of this game... that does not seem to be the way it's played out.
Weren't the no-kills actually a tactical decision by scum to make our lives harder? I would say having an extra unconfirmed in Mylo and Xylo is a sizable advantage. You speak of it like it was not really that important, but I would like to point out it's the difference between us getting to kill 2/4 of us out versus 2/3. Scum needs to be in top two rather than be #1 now
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Post Post #4280 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:38 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 4277, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:krazy. if ur town why did the scum not just leave you and tanner unconf'd and let you 2 go at each other?
yeah that's definitely the question of the day. I think it's pretty clear that I am a necessary fight for their wincon. The other possibility would maybe be to foment paranoia regarding alisae? But if that was the case why not just dump it on a slot like tweet or something? The only thing that really comes to mind for me is making my slot look extra shitty
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Post Post #4281 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:42 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 4279, Morning Tweet wrote:Weren't the no-kills actually a tactical decision by scum to make our lives harder? I would say having an extra unconfirmed in Mylo and Xylo is a sizable advantage. You speak of it like it was not really that important, but I would like to point out it's the difference between us getting to kill 2/4 of us out versus 2/3. Scum needs to be in top two rather than be #1 now
no I agree, for other people it would make sense. I don't think it's no big deal or an unreasonable strategic choice. My point is more, why would that be more valuable than a kill for me as scum? Like given the amount of pressure my slot was under, I feel like killing someone who strongly suspected me would have made way more sense than giving town an extra fight and dragging the game out an entire extra day when -- strictly speaking, given the extent to which I dislike playing scum -- is not something I would ever enjoy doing. Like you play the game to have fun, and even if this is a play that 'make sense' it is not something that I would do because I don't like dragged out games, ESPECIALLY as scum
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Post Post #4282 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:44 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 4253, Alisae wrote:this is what Nacho would probably do I think
I really don't think it's healthy for the game to deadsheep btw, I just think it makes the ghosts angry
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Post Post #4283 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:45 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

Pooky can AtE his way into a Krazy elimination easy. He's got Tanner (1v1'd Krazy prior) and Lav (already emotionally manipulated in the past) to help him guaranteed. Perhaps that's why those two are spared.

Then, he just needs to foster enough paranoia (as he's doing rn) on Prism/Ali to win. He can't eliminate me since he's already stated he trusts Hectic that I am town.

Pooky is legitimately giving himself the best odds possible for both Krazy's and Prism's eliminations.
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Post Post #4284 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:55 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 4283, Morning Tweet wrote:Pooky can AtE his way into a Krazy elimination easy. He's got Tanner (1v1'd Krazy prior) and Lav (already emotionally manipulated in the past) to help him guaranteed. Perhaps that's why those two are spared.

Then, he just needs to foster enough paranoia (as he's doing rn) on Prism/Ali to win. He can't eliminate me since he's already stated he trusts Hectic that I am town.

Pooky is legitimately giving himself the best odds possible for both Krazy's and Prism's eliminations.
....am I wrong about any of this?

Granted, maybe sparing me is a better play for Pooky, although predictable since I'm a player you couldn't have pushed anyway. You could also keep Lav in the spares and allow the Tanner vs. Krazy 1v1 to continue. My first thoughts today were, "Huh, thought scum Pooky spares me there."

It actually feels somewhat important to me Tanner was spared. Had Tanner not been spared, you'd still have Krazy pushing for that elimination. Sounds useful to have him distracted unless your goal is to just to make sure Krazy dies. If you need Krazy to die, then you can include Tanner as a spare for increased odds. It makes Krazy look bad and Tanner is free to continue pushing there.

Why... why would scum!Krazy put himself through the extra stress of having to now deal with a one-sided 1v1 with Tanner?
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Post Post #4285 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:56 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

That last post is basically what ppl have been saying but yeah I want to reiterate why we should pick Pooky.
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Post Post #4286 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 2996, Tanner wrote:{tanner} - bruh my role pm is green
{tweet, lavender} - town because of deadline thing. more conclusive for tweet than for lavender. but eh.
{prism} - i refuse to believe this slot is scum. if this slot is scum i am going to cry so many tears post game.
{hectic} - this is my townblocc now. prism don't @ me.
{pooky} - i am vibing town!pooky. i just am.
In post 3703, Tanner wrote:my thoughts about pooky are ultimately what i said, I've seen him quite successfullly push misexecutes as scum, so i don't think we end up with elements flipped day one, and his case on ele is ultimately what made me okay voting there. i just don't think he's scum i guess? like it doesn't feel like it ~makes sense~.
In post 3985, Tanner wrote:sigh.

HURT: pooky

i hate literally everything about this end of day and this game. will check in on my break in 2 hours. if the game is not locked by then.

Maybe worth comparing Tanner on Pooky compared to Alisae on Pooky

vs.
In post 3987, Alisae wrote:If I'm compromising I would rather compromise on hectic then Pooky
In post 3995, Alisae wrote:im going to bed
HURT: hectic
i like this more then pooky because if krazy is wrong I at least get to hold him accountable for it.
like if pooky is scum, I suppose both Alisae and Tanner have both been willing to budge on Pooky. In that sense it's not clear he would have a clear motivation to inno one over the other in terms of protecting him (like, if pooky was hoping [the clear] would protect him, it would maybe make more sense for him to inno alisae over tanner], so that could maaaaybe be 1 point for town pooky but maybe more inconclusive?

idk, maybe a weird question but pooky do you think you saw tanner or alisae as townreading you more going into this day?
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Post Post #4287 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:02 pm

Post by Krazy »

In post 4228, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i realized i dont want to die. im town. tanner save me pls
like if this is where pooky planned to go today, would it have made more sense for him inno alisae? or was the value of alisae paranoia too much greater then?
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Post Post #4288 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:05 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 4287, Krazy wrote:
In post 4228, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i realized i dont want to die. im town. tanner save me pls
like if this is where pooky planned to go today, would it have made more sense for him inno alisae? or was the value of alisae paranoia too much greater then?
Imo Tanner never actually had any chance of being eliminated, so Pooky would then be stuck with trying to eliminate Tanner or Morning after your death. I think he loses that.

To be fair though, you could say the same for Ali/Prism. But going for Ali/Prism just seems unexpected and paranoia-inducing, which I think makes going for em better.
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Post Post #4289 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:08 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 4287, Krazy wrote:
In post 4228, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i realized i dont want to die. im town. tanner save me pls
like if this is where pooky planned to go today, would it have made more sense for him inno alisae? or was the value of alisae paranoia too much greater then?
OH but like to actually engage with your point lol. Idk why I went off on a tangent and forgot.

Judging by the posts you linked, you're right that Ali seems slightly more favourable to Pooky. I think if Pooky were to predict who e goes after, he'd predict that e goes for you over him.
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Post Post #4290 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:12 pm

Post by Krazy »

Yeah that's a good point.
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Post Post #4291 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:22 pm

Post by Krazy »

Like, if this game is looked at from a very straightforward perspective, Pooky has kinda hit all the marks for what I would be expecting scum to do in this gamestate

like tanner was inno'd when it doesn't really make sense... and he kinda did a clear reach out to tanner

alisae was the most obvious mech clear and not clearing there would be to form paranoia... and he's kinda trying to suggest alisae might be scum

I guess it would surprise me a little that scum would be so brazen about it I guess?

For me the biggest issue is still Pooky defending me on day 2, since that was a point where I still could have been lynched and it's not really clear what benefit he got from that over compromising on Tayl0r, unless a relatively decent part of his strategy was in trying to pocket or at least position me as a townread.

Although I guess that would make sense if he wanted me to get lynched today but didn't want to be the one leading it? idk
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Post Post #4292 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:24 pm

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In post 4192, Krazy wrote:but yeah, between the catboi kill, which was one of the only slots hard defending me, and the tanner clear, which seems to serve no purpose other than getting me fought today, I want to say basically every visible scum night action has either been to make my slot lynchable

Clap joins a three-deep wagon on me day 2 with the other scum already dead

like, I'm just town. I'm not actually sure who the last scum is, but I feel like if you think about what scum is trying to do this game you will realize that me getting fought is basically their top priority at this point since it's definitely necessary to them winning the game
also toss on Prism's redtea meta in like, and for example
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Post Post #4293 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:39 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

I think sparing Lav was actually a decently large brain move by scum, now that I think about it. No one really had the stomach to eliminate there anymore, and you could probably persuade Lav to eliminate just about anybody with the right amount of heartstring-tugging.

Having Lav on your side in the Xylo means you just gotta convince one of Tanner/Morning/Alisae to vote for someone else in that group. Probably not terribly easy but Alisae has demonstrated e is open to considering most slots at least a little bit, or you can introduce some Prism paranoia.

If scum is instead Ali.. uhh idk you can probably just go wacky with the spares it doesn't matter. Sparing Tanner is good for getting that
easy
Krazy elim, then Morning will vote Pooky next day

I feel like the spares generally just make the least sense for Krazy to do outside of WIFOM. It's hard to ignore because Krazy is 100% walking into his own death sparing Tanner since Ali will murderize him for it and so will probably the rest of the thread. He has to survive two elims of that

SMH if I'm being WIFOMed but still
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Post Post #4294 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:26 am

Post by Alisae »

ok but
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Post Post #4295 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:28 am

Post by Alisae »

Datisi has a good enough feel for my scum game.
I feel like they should know how differently I approach this game given the micro she recently just modded that I was scum in.
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Post Post #4296 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:30 am

Post by Alisae »

HURT: Pooky
Now that I think about it, yesterday's day start entrance and response to Nacho is actually really strange.
It seemed like they knew what was going on and everyone else just didn't.
MT especially didn't know what was going on.
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Post Post #4297 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:35 am

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As scum I wouldn't clear Lavender btw. Instead of Lavender I would clear Krazy and push the Lavender flip for game.
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Post Post #4298 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:37 am

Post by Alisae »

Why would I make the game deliberately harder for myself as scum?
Because I'm retarded and do that sometimes
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Post Post #4299 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:39 am

Post by Alisae »

There's a track record for that btw I do weird shit as scum that can make the game harder for myself to win.
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