Death Curse

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I know you keep saying this but I read the post on replacements, and it seems to have a lot more to do with players urging others to replace out, replaced out players talking about replacing out, and replaced out players continuing to post. I don't think it is against the rules for us, players in the game post replacement, to discuss it, but feel free to prove me wrong.

ok

@Hectic are we allowed to talk about replacements and the motivations behind players replacing out or use replacement as reasoning behind our reads?

I will address Taylor's "logic" if this is actually inbounds

[Tayl0r Swift]

If we are not doing Noraa first then I would lean more on Unowen is scum which was mentioned earlier. And also I wanted to add on #101 what Theta said are my thoughts exactly. On #680 it looked like Isis also had the same thoughts as me and Theta which makes me think Isis is also probably town with Theta. On #708 Unowen said Isis is suspicious and I would have assumed town Unowen would have picked up on what Theta was saying on #101 and would have also assumed Isis also picked up on this too and would have leaned town on Isis. This makes me think scum did not know town were asked to confirm that scum had daytalk.

I also saw somewhere that doing this t>s>t is bad and I'm assuming town would have to pass the scroll to a town read if the first scroll is handed to a town player.

you never pass the scroll to a townie on purpose. the use of the second scrollholder should be to give the scroll to people who are hard to sort. that way you sort the slot and if its town you lose nothing. but its never bad to give the scroll to scum.

[Theta Alpine]

wow i waited so long to do this

but being asked to confirm that scum have daytalk is in the sample town rolecard
so knowing that is not a town slip

as for vaxkiller
let me dig into my iso and grab where i explained it
actually let me just summarize it
we want scum in the third slot more than we want scum in the first slot so we save our highest scum read for that
t-s-t is arguably bad but at the first slot being town we have already missed the chance to kill two scum so it is not terrible
at least not bad enough to suggest killing a town player on purpose to get t-t-s instead

[Tayl0r Swift]

wow i waited so long to do this

but being asked to confirm that scum have daytalk is in the sample town rolecard
so knowing that is not a town slip

as for vaxkiller
let me dig into my iso and grab where i explained it
actually let me just summarize it
we want scum in the third slot more than we want scum in the first slot so we save our highest scum read for that
t-s-t is arguably bad but at the first slot being town we have already missed the chance to kill two scum so it is not terrible
at least not bad enough to suggest killing a town player on purpose to get t-t-s instead

wait how do you know scum have daytalk? is that a scumslip?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like how much more of this trolling are we allowing TS to do

[MURDERCAT]

t-s-t is arguably bad but at the first slot being town we have already missed the chance to kill two scum so it is not terrible

I think odds of S>T>S go up if we shoot the sure scum first, get an effectively confirmed townie, and use that info the guide 3rd shot.

[Theta Alpine]

t-s-t is arguably bad but at the first slot being town we have already missed the chance to kill two scum so it is not terrible

I think odds of S>T>S go up if we shoot the sure scum first, get an effectively confirmed townie, and use that info the guide 3rd shot.

in theory yes

but we do not get the flips until the scroll has been passed twice
and negating a scum kill is more important then trying to use the first kill to guess what the alignment of the first player is and who we should pass the scroll to because of that

besides if we're this sure about someone being scum it probably will not make a difference in who we vote first in terms of being able to sort people when passing the scroll

[MURDERCAT]

besides if we're this sure about someone being scum

Despite conversation about Noraa, I don't think this is ever true

[UNOwen]

254 this feels like it was premeditated
i mean seriously it feels like this exchange between noraa and adorable was planned out ahead of time
why is a self-proclaimed newbie attacking adorable and effectively daring them to vote themselves
and not attacking hopkirk who had placed a blank vote
or unowen who had an rvs vote

Yes exactly. Noraa is not a fool, if she fears that she has been caught and is 100% going down then I believe her instinct would be to perform some sort of distancing with one of her partners. The highlighting of the Adorable post was pretty strong considering the context of Noraa getting swarmed that was going on. "Theres so many questions that I get when I see this post that I am definitely SRing you for it. I think I'd actually like to place my vote here bc I want to put some pressure on you." sounds like a very calculated statement, not naturally worded at all. Noraa later follows up with declaring she would give the scroll to Adorable too. However at no point does Noraa reach out to other players to support the Adorable vote, which I think she would if town and convinced she had identified a clearly scummy player hopping on the wagon. That she has this reaction to Adorable but is apparently not alarmed about the way I have lazily sat on her wagon (unlike both shelly and taylor) has further suggested to me that something is up.

On Adorable, she is busy and it is not clear that she has completely caught up so perhaps there will be better information later. But the vote was awkward as anything, independent of Noraa's alignment. Noraa is right that the whole "I don't understand why Noraa is defensive?" was a scummy question to ask. The implication is clear but instead of just stating a suspicion and acting on it there is a smoke screen of questioning to build up to the vote. Then immediately in 277 the facade drops, Adorable thinks Noraa is sus and declares she would give the scroll to Noraa. This looks like scum attempting to find their way onto a wagon.

[MURDERCAT]

Like I get where you and LLD and others are coming from, I just don't have that confidence in our ability to go S>T>S when we start with someone who is maybe scum

[UNOwen]

While Nora is doomed, I still feel its good to form an opinion. It helps others read you and your future reads. One of your reads was based on flip, which I assume now is a solid read too.

What is your read on Noraa atm?

[Titus]

Alright. Let's take a look at this setup and its rules. I basically subbed in due to the length of the game and how I felt no one would take this.

If you'll excuse me.

[Theta Alpine]

Like I get where you and LLD and others are coming from, I just don't have that confidence in our ability to go S>T>S when we start with someone who is maybe scum

well how about we try it today and see how it works

then we can evaluate how well it worked and decide future strategy accordingly

[UNOwen]

If we are not doing Noraa first then I would lean more on Unowen is scum which was mentioned earlier. And also I wanted to add on #101 what Theta said are my thoughts exactly. On #680 it looked like Isis also had the same thoughts as me and Theta which makes me think Isis is also probably town with Theta. On #708 Unowen said Isis is suspicious and I would have assumed town Unowen would have picked up on what Theta was saying on #101 and would have also assumed Isis also picked up on this too and would have leaned town on Isis. This makes me think scum did not know town were asked to confirm that scum had daytalk.

Are you reviewing the game currently or in catch-up?

[MURDERCAT]

well how about we try it today and see how it works

then we can evaluate how well it worked and decide future strategy accordingly

I'm certainly not going to fight against it

[UNOwen]

I agree with MURDERCAT on scroll sequencing.

[Titus]

Alright, I read the rules and the VCs.

My question is... why is the Noraa wagon so static without a counterwagon?

[Adorable]

254 this feels like it was premeditated
i mean seriously it feels like this exchange between noraa and adorable was planned out ahead of time
why is a self-proclaimed newbie attacking adorable and effectively daring them to vote themselves
and not attacking hopkirk who had placed a blank vote
or unowen who had an rvs vote

Yes exactly. Noraa is not a fool, if she fears that she has been caught and is 100% going down then I believe her instinct would be to perform some sort of distancing with one of her partners. The highlighting of the Adorable post was pretty strong considering the context of Noraa getting swarmed that was going on. "Theres so many questions that I get when I see this post that I am definitely SRing you for it. I think I'd actually like to place my vote here bc I want to put some pressure on you." sounds like a very calculated statement, not naturally worded at all. Noraa later follows up with declaring she would give the scroll to Adorable too. However at no point does Noraa reach out to other players to support the Adorable vote, which I think she would if town and convinced she had identified a clearly scummy player hopping on the wagon. That she has this reaction to Adorable but is apparently not alarmed about the way I have lazily sat on her wagon (unlike both shelly and taylor) has further suggested to me that something is up.

On Adorable, she is busy and it is not clear that she has completely caught up so perhaps there will be better information later. But the vote was awkward as anything, independent of Noraa's alignment. Noraa is right that the whole "I don't understand why Noraa is defensive?" was a scummy question to ask. The implication is clear but instead of just stating a suspicion and acting on it there is a smoke screen of questioning to build up to the vote. Then immediately in 277 the facade drops, Adorable thinks Noraa is sus and declares she would give the scroll to Noraa. This looks like scum attempting to find their way onto a wagon.

I saw you say Noraa is scum and you also put me as scum. So from what you are saying it looked like you are accusing me for bussing Noraa. On your last sentence here you made I'm interpreting it as if it looks like you are town reading Noraa and you are saying scum is hopping on the town wagon. So which is it now?

[Hectic]

@Hectic are we allowed to talk about replacements and the motivations behind players replacing out or use replacement as reasoning behind our reads?

You may.

[Titus]

Ok, someone explain how a scumkill be negated in this setup?

Are we presuming if we hit scum on the last round then it's negated?

[UNOwen]

I saw you say Noraa is scum and you also put me as scum. So from what you are saying it looked like you are accusing me for bussing Noraa. On your last sentence here you made I'm interpreting it as if it looks like you are town reading Noraa and you are saying scum is hopping on the town wagon. So which is it now?

I don't know how you read that post and think it is a Noraa town read. I think you are both scum.

[UNOwen]

Ok, someone explain how a scumkill be negated in this setup?

Are we presuming if we hit scum on the last round then it's negated?

Yes.

[MURDERCAT]

My question is... why is the Noraa wagon so static without a counterwagon?

Either it's the easiest miselm ever or scum bussed immediately because it went downhill too fast

[Titus]

Ok, someone explain how a scumkill be negated in this setup?

Are we presuming if we hit scum on the last round then it's negated?

Yes.

So effectively, we need to find two scums to end the day. Who is the consensus second? Have we been using HURT tags to indicate a preference?

[Titus]

My question is... why is the Noraa wagon so static without a counterwagon?

Either it's the easiest miselm ever or scum bussed immediately because it went downhill too fast

Those are usually the options. That's why I asked for the case on Noraa to determine which it was.