Musician Mafia: Guitarists GAME OVER

[Grendel]

Goof, please case Iecerint.

seconded

[Grendel]

7. TripaineDeath is either what he says he is or he's scum. Does it matter at this point? We should just shred there today and move on. We've got 4 days. We're not coming to a consensus scum. We need to get info. Half of you will say information lynches are scummy but we've got to break the state we're in.

IM in agreement that the game state has got cuaght in an awkward stagnate phase. Im a little relived that one other person feels this way haha.

I wanted to access the majority of the roster in satisfactory detail, but im at a point where i just don't think that's going to happen with the amount of time left. Instead I think its time to start rallying for the flip.

I'd love to get to a point that 2~3 players are put in claiming territory before we hit the final 48 hour marker. Im trying to think of a way to narrow the pool rn.

[Grendel]

I think the easiest solution is if in everybody's next post we out a pool of up to three players we are willing to flip, and then place a vote on one of them.

After a certain point i think town's EoD options should become more straight forward, and we can make a more educated choice with fewer players vs a rushed decision with too many players on the choppping block.

@WHATS ALL YOUR THOUGHTS

[Grendel]

Mine is [Tideath, Lavender]

-/-/-/-/-

DGB is a potential 3rd as the town vibes I had are dissipating. I want to look at a few other things first before I say yay, or nay, there.

-/-/-/-/-

VOTE: Lavender

[Grendel]

Dave looks ok. He's not hard town, but i dont really see any clear scum motivation there.

Im aware that BEF cased him to be scum, but im not entirely sure what i think of BEF yet lol.

Who else had strong opinions on Dave?

[DrippingGoofball]

Iecerint has been very cagey with his reads, he has given reads and opinions on a very limited number of players. In fact, he has been reading so few players that he added himself, see bolded:

@they may have thrown
why are following players in your list on positions they are in?
Galron, Pisskop, Walter, DGB, NPOM, iecerint, starbucks.

Galron: I townread him for his 339. This was his "people are attacking Leia and TD for NAI" post. He was the only one saying that kind of thing at the time.

Pisskop: I actually scumread him on his initial replace-in, but I didn't trust my scumread because I townread him (when he was scum) in our last game we played together (Baker's last game, now completed). His play in this game IS different from that game, so I wondered if I needed to turn my readhead upside-down. Then, I realized that the difference was mostly caused by his having replaced in, and I wondered if I needed to have my readhead put back. When I read his replace-in posts a couple more times (during my initial readthrough I paused and read his catch-up a couple of times), I eventually decided he was town. IIRC at first I was puzzled by a dissonant read he listed, which led to a scumread, but I was able to figure it out when I read it a second or third time. So, this one had a lot of back-and-forth mostly based on his replace-in posts. Overall, he has seemed like he wants to solve the game.

Walter: Went into my NULL pile originally and then re-sorted to scum when I read his iso and realized that (at that time) he had posted no content whatsoever while also having a fair number of posts. This differentiated him from someone like Lavender. He went lower on the list than Looker because Looker had a handful of townie-seeming posts in his iso.

DGB: I usually have a really strong townread on DGB when she is town. I don't have a really strong townread on DGB. I put her directly into scum without having to sort her from NULL. Also, I am surprised that she has totally ignored NPOM, because I would expect her to really focus on the whole "set-up outguessing" premise that Rudeboy mentioned, since she usually crusades against this kind of thing (e.g., the same Baker game that was just completed -- in that game, it was about "oh maybe this 3p will be townie" that she crusaded against, but it's a similar overprivileging of /outguess over scumhunting). But, it's more the former than the latter, because I think that associative tells are usually not helpful D1.

NPOM: This should be obvious; most of my iso is about NPOM. He made multiple early scumtells and his posts since then have been either brazenly without scumhunting, or fake scumhunting (e.g., posting a readslist that lists Leia when at that point Dave had replaced in and been active for awhile). [INB4 He posts pointing out that I did the same thing in my reads post but.] The main case for not shredding him is that Rudeboy says he's *possibly* a phantom jester (or some other shred-shenanigans role).

Iecerint: I embody the Iecerint.

Starbuck: I just think she's town. Prolly because she saw the thread the same way as me for a lot of the game I think. Townread has gotten stronger from content since I posted my readslist.

[TiphaineDeath]

DGB, tell me your last post was a joke post, please.

[Grendel]

hmmm... Is Iecerint normally a player that is cagey with his reads as scum?

Or is this more of a general tell for you?

[Grendel]

B/c i def played with lots of townies that keep thier reads close to thier chests before. Its not necessarily scummy.

[DrippingGoofball]

Now let's parse Iecerint's fence sitting and the wishy-washiness.

GALRON:

This is what Iecerint has to say about Galron:

"I townread him for his 339. This was his "people are attacking Leia and TD for NAI" post. He was the only one saying that kind of thing at the time."

Now, let's look at the post #339 that Iecerint is pointing to. The link leads to this Galron post, that is a mere one sentence. It reads:

"339 is satire. Some of youse are scum reading Leia for having fun and some others of y'all are scum reading TD for something nai."

Say what???? What a gratuitous, facile, unsupported townread. That's town, why? It makes no sense. That Galron post is completely null by any objective measure.

Galron himself noticed there was something off with Iecerint's reads. Here is Galron's comment:

"I don't get the Looker read with so little content. Actually, without some explanations, this entire list looks fishy. Someone made a point of saying how can you have reads on 20 players. I subscribe to that. I'll ask what's your process here?"

Iecerint answers the question with a deft combo of surgical precision and vagueness:

"Looker was NULL and then placed into SCUM in step 4. I placed him there because he posts and does not scumhunt. IIRC he's

close to the null side of the SCUM

section."

When forced to explain, suddenly Iecerint is not talking about a scum read, but the "null side of the scum section." Mkay.

[chkflip]

Also, why did you only say via role?

That's just how I interpreted:

3. Chkflip and pooky are connected somehow. I haven't seen them try to solve each other.

See also: I don't 100% know his fucking alignment?

[DrippingGoofball]

B/c i def played with lots of townies that keep thier reads close to thier chests before. Its not necessarily scummy.

So, you're disputing my case on your buddy before I even lay it down. Gotcha.

[Grendel]

THere are multiple ppl who unvoted me since this VC and have yet to revote, if you guys are reading this please place a vote asap! The longer the wait the less time we have to make claims and decide final chop.

Vote Count 3.06

@Doctor Drew

Grendel (6): Bambi Jay, PookyTheMagicalBear, davesaz, TiphaineDeath, chkflip, NoPowerOverMe
DrippingGoofball (4): Iecerint, BrightEyedFish, Almost50, DrippingGoofball
TiphaineDeath (3): Galron, Starbuck, pisskop
Lavender (1): a2rudeboy

Not Voting (4): Lavender, Grendel, Gamma Emerald, Doctor Drew

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 votes to shred someone.
Heyyyyy we got someone! Grendel replaces in for Assemble
Day Three ends on Wednesday October 28th at 12:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-10-28 12:00:00)

[Grendel]

B/c i def played with lots of townies that keep thier reads close to thier chests before. Its not necessarily scummy.

So, you're disputing my case on your buddy before I even lay it down. Gotcha.

I didnt know you had more to say.

Tell me more, I promise to wait until you're finished before I say anyhting one way or the other

[DrippingGoofball]

PISSKOP:

I'm going to highlight the parts where Iecerint thinks Pisskop is scum in read, and the parts he thinks Pisskop is town in green.

"

I actually scumread him on his initial replace-in

,

but I didn't trust my scumread because I townread him (when he was scum) in our last game we played together (Baker's last game, now completed).

His play in this game IS different from that game, so I wondered if I needed to turn my readhead upside-down.

Then, I realized that the difference was mostly caused by his having replaced in, and I wondered if I needed to have my readhead put back.

When I read his replace-in posts a couple more times (during my initial readthrough I paused and read his catch-up a couple of times), I eventually decided he was town.

IIRC at first I was puzzled by a dissonant read he listed, which led to a scumread

,

but I was able to figure it out when I read it a second or third time.

So, this one had a lot of

back

-and-

forth

mostly based on his replace-in posts. Overall, he has seemed like he wants to solve the game."

[a2rudeboy]

List: Lav, NPOM, Iec

[DrippingGoofball]

WALTER:

"Went into my NULL pile originally and then re-sorted to scum when I read his iso and realized that (at that time) he had posted no content whatsoever while also having a fair number of posts. This differentiated him from someone like Lavender. He went lower on the list than Looker because Looker had a handful of townie-seeming posts in his iso."

That evaluation seems mostly OK, the only mini-beef I have with it is that he doesn't explain how this makes Walter so much worse than Lavender. But I give it a pass.

[BrightEyedFish]

Looking through some of my alt accounts, I've nailed scum!dave 100% of the time.

I don't see why this game should be any different.

I'm going to write this off until you actually tell me what those alts are.

That's not going to happen

Maybe a good detective could figure it out.

UNVOTE:

[Galron]

In B4 npom votes iecerint.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB:

"I usually have a really strong townread on DGB when she is town. I don't have a really strong townread on DGB. I put her directly into scum without having to sort her from NULL."

Imediately, Iecerint boasts of his ability to read me as town, when I'm town.

In this game, he says

he has a town read on me

, but it's not really strong. Therefore, I'm thrown directly in the scum pile. HE GIVES ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for his read in this post.

"I am surprised that she has totally ignored NPOM"

- In what universe have I ignored NPOM? How can anyone ignore NPOM, when he will not allow it? Did he pass the 500 post mark yet?

Then Iecerint goes on to make bizarre fabrications on supposed behavioral cannons of mine - cannons that are rigid and make no allowances of changes in context.

[DrippingGoofball]

NPOM:

I want to be fair here, I am reading Iecerint's judgment through the lens of my own judgement that NPOM is probably town, after he spent a whole game day gumming up the game with scummy posts.

"This should be obvious; most of my iso is about NPOM."

There, Iecerint said it himself. He has only a few awkward reads, but he has obsessed over two players. NPOM yesterday, and me today. Indeed, that's what most of his iso is about.

Lo and behold, Iecerint is self-conscious about his own scummy play:

"He made multiple early scumtells and his posts since then have been either brazenly without scumhunting, or fake scumhunting (e.g., posting a readslist that lists Leia when at that point Dave had replaced in and been active for awhile). [INB4 He posts pointing out that

I did the same thing in my reads post

but.]"

Iecerint most certainly did that thing in his own reads post, but we're supposed to take Iecerint's word that he's town for doing the same thing he calls NPOM scum for.

This bit below made me laugh:

The main case for not shredding him is that Rudeboy says he's *possibly* a phantom jester (or some other shred-shenanigans role).

Really. A phantom jester.

Possibly

. And that was the main case for not eliminating NPOM and Iecerint was OK with that. Sure sure.

[DrippingGoofball]

IECERINT:

"I embody the Iecerint."

He had so few reads he had to pad it with an explanation of his self-read.

[BrightEyedFish]

Sorry, I've been distracted by more non-AI things in this game. Trying to get back on track.

I hadn't really given Iec's slot much attention. I read over the ISO and I am not seeing anything that screams scum however, I don't feel that this slot should be written off as town atm as there were some moments that lacked genuineness.

Spoiler:

Well if they were in last game I'm guessing they're waiting until Goofball bites the dust. Or they aren't gonna pull an Alch and make their wincon unwinnable by revealing too early.

Wait, are you an alt, or did you just watch/read the last game?

I dunno what "deep reads" means, though. Like, my list is ordinal. The top is most town, the bottom is least town. The town folks near the NULL section are progressively weaker townreads.

And iceprint is TRing him?

TRing?

Walter, what do you make of people suspecting you?

I have noticed that you almost totally ignore it.

Also, just speculating that if Iec ever flips red then there are probably scum within the 5-6 referenced in 2472

[DrippingGoofball]

STARBUCK:

I get a feeling Iecerint was becoming exhausting with the fence sitting, the fake scum hunting, calling other players "scum" for things he was himself doing, so Starbuck is just town.

"I just think she's town. Prolly because she saw the thread the same way as me for a lot of the game I think. Townread has gotten stronger from content since I posted my readslist."

Translation: she town cuz she think like me. No actual justification whatsoever.

[DrippingGoofball]

I read over the ISO and I am not seeing anything that screams scum however

Iecerint isn't the kind of player that is ever going to jump out as obvscum. The devil is in the details.