Death Curse

[Bell]

Yeah, WIM means you want to win. Which as either town or scum is a compliment!

[MURDERCAT]

Pretty annoyed at this slot atm. I hate that someone that has legit played a whole game with town!me and knows that im a big baby when it comes to not being stubborn, won't hear me out. He claims he engages me and shit but every time it reads to me like "Just fucking accept you are dead bitch. Now calm your ass and solve the whole game for me if you are town. If you don't, then ur scum" I feel forced to give reads but then you just come around and are like "oop well it doesn't matter cuz ur dead meat anyways" When Mush says it, it's different. You know why? Because mush understands that I fucked up but is unwilling to save me. You, on the other hand are basically pressuring me to give reads, pressuring me to not be antitown when I am mad, and constantly just being like "stop being mad noraa. ur dying anyways" That logic doesn't click with me and constantly just repeating the same damn thing to me isn't gonna get you whatever tf it is that you want from me. All you are gonna do is make me MAD. I'm throwing you in my SRs because I believe that town!you would see the town in me considering I am the exact same stubborn and stupid that I was in Roses. You aren't not seeing it. You know it is true but you know I am an easy lim as scum so you are pushing me hard. Thats the best I can interpret your play this game. I think you are scum.

I'll address you as if you are town.
Noraa it is only out of respect for your scum game that I continue to SR you. Yes, I think that emotionally you seem town to me, that is why I think there is a 30% chance you do flip town. But I also know that you know what you are like as town and I also know that you know that AtE is very effective on me. So I literally can't not vote for you on D1, because there is significant evidence you might flip scum. Your survivalist mindset is also frustrating because I think you would genuinely do that as town, but I think it lowers the town win rate and raises your likelihood of being elimed.

[Noraa]

Last thing, I don't think most of town is even convinced im scum. I don't really think its a consensus read because I feel like everyone has had these reads shoved down their throat. I think killing me is 100% a policy lim. Limming off a bad playstyle that actually proves to be helpful to town in the long run(statistics show this :3 I lead 2/3 town games to victory) is not a good choice imo. I'm selling for a pretty fair price. Im annoying, stubborn and useless for a lot of the game but can be extremely helpful towards the end. Doesn't have to be endgame. The longer into the game, the better my play gets. Go meta dive if you don't believe me.

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa if you are actually town, consider instead that reasonable town might think you are just scummy? You seem to mostly town read people who town read you and scum read people who scum read you. If you acknowledge you made mistakes, maybe it's people with info who are finding town reads on you?

[Noraa]

Ok fr I am off to bed. Frustrated with the game yet again but i think I'll be better tomorrow after a long run in the morning.

[Noraa]

maybe it's people with info who are finding town reads on you?

peoples reads on me affect my reads on them. this I don't deny. Im not to the point in my ms career where I can disregard those entirely. This is an interesting point that I haven't put too much weight into this game. Ur telling me they are scum TMI-ing. Interesting. I'll think about it though I still dislike your play this game a shit ton. You keep saying I would do all of this as town but you wanna kill me anyways. Unlike the rest, you are saying this is exactly my townplay yet you still want me dead.

[Noraa]

Ok frfr this time.

[MURDERCAT]

Unlike the rest, you are saying this is exactly my townplay yet you still want me dead.

Once again, I haven't played with scum you so while I think you could play like this is town I have no reason to think you can't do it as scum. And from what I read of your scum game, you are a strong scum player.

[Zdenek]

Mushagana makes a lot of excuses. Is that par for the course with her? If it’s not, we should curse her for it.

[Zdenek]

V/LA until Monday

[Fidget]

I was just going to do a response thing to engage with Noraa, but it ended up being a readslist of some sort. Works for me, I guess.

A read for everyone here(I did it by ISO as to make my job much easier otherwise I would've gotten a headache reading the whole entire thread). No one gets excluded :D

Adorable

Spoiler:

post 244 is this slots opening post and to be absolutely and brutally honest, I still do not like it. Generally, when I see a post sussing me while I'm under a lot pressure, I will never like it but I have taken a hot break and I still don't like it. This means that it's no longer a "I was being emotional" type of thing but rather a much more fair and solid read. "Not understanding why I am being defensive" is a really interesting thing to say here. The reason is that 1)newbies are always defensive. Regardless of my wins/losses, I am a newbie with a little over 2 months of time on ms and that is a fact no one can question. 2)rather than asking why I am being defensive which many people have already pointed out, just state whether its town indicative or scum indicative from your pov. That all aside, I think I am not that convinced this slot is scum anymore. Every single post from this user oozes newbtells. There are 0 independent arguments and every argument is some sort of OMGUS(ie SR on Uno and SR on me). I relate to this on a spiritual level. No matter how many people are sussing me(pressure doesn't matter, any amount will suffice), I will legit just OMGUS the fuck out of them. I always try to justify it otherwise but really ... let's talk facts. Im a noob. I hate pressure. I OMGUS. This is my form of self protection and tho it looks stupid/scummy, it is what it is for now. I hope for that to change as well since it really doesn't help with scum hunting but I can't really do anything about it rn cuz I haven't progressed past the point where I stop caring about pressure and just do my own thing. My reads are still heavily influenced by pressure. This is proven in all of my town games (if anyone wants straight up evidence, I can provide it) This slot oozes newb and reminds me a lot of myself except less active(a lot less active actually). Throwing away all of my SRs on this slot for now. Hot take this slot is just

newbtown

.

Bell

Spoiler:

first glance over and this slot has a lot of LAMISTing(ie posts 125, 139, 520, etc). I think that's slightly scum indicative bc, I generally don't say a lot of that type of stuff as town but I think it could just be play style and im too lazy to meta dive you. I really liked your defense of me at the beginning tho. It was very reasonable and I believe that if I was seeing a newbie slot get tunneled like this, I would also reply like that. I really like the courage there bc I do believe that getting involved in things like this and disagreeing with people taking up town leader positions can often result in you getting thrown straight under the bus. Generally, when I am NOT the person getting tunneled, I have zero fear as town so I think zero fear is town indicative. Indecisiveness(imo) is also for the most part, town indicative. You had a lot of hmm is Noraa scum? Nah maybe they are town. Or maybe they are scum. Etc, etc. This reminds me of my pms with mods when I am a pr. It literally looks like this:

Noraa shoots blah

. Wait wait no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait actually no

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Wait no no no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait wait wait wait wait

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Argh sorry mod

Noraa shoots other blah

. final decision

Noraa shoots blah

(that was the first decision :facepalm:) Indecisiveness, though it is slightly a personality trait for me, is generally town indicative. I find myself so much more certain and less flip floppy when scum yet I have so many doubts and lots of paranoia as town. Also one post that asked if I normally post reads lists early in the game was really good cuz thats like investigating in on some meta and stuff. Your a bit fencesitty about your SRs(I can provide examples if asked) but thats generally how I am as well. I've been trying to actually just stick to one read lately but that ends up biting me in the ass a lot of the times too so idk. still trying to find a balance. You remind me a lot of myself sometimes as well. I want to say this slot is likely

town

for now.

Fidget

Spoiler:

Post 36 and 290 scare me. Unlike Bell whose whole play here has been LAMIST-y, your's doesn't stay LAMIST. only the entrance is lamist and that is really scary. I always think first impressions are the most important(ironic cuz I blew mine but nonetheless, I do think this) One of my pretty close online friends once told me that no matter what, everyone will always remember the first impression you left on them. Whether or only subconsciously or like it was just yesterday depends on the person. When you come in with that super LAMIST entrance but then drop it immediately, I get really worried you are just faking a really town look first and dropping it and relaxing once you realize the pressure all got sucked away into a Noraa vortex of doom. You really only talk about me. Every post somehow relates to me. Your reads on everyone have something to do with me. Meaning you are doing 100% preflip analysis and every single read is only true if I flip red. I 100% see that as a hohoho guys I have reads that are all based on Noraa flipping red. And AHA when she flips green, I can just be like ana oop turns out preflip analysis aint that hot eh. Excuse me for not having reads now cuz horrible Noraa lead me astray with her terrible awful playstyle. Most of your posts are 100% sheeping/buddying(ie posts 296(buddying LLD), all the isis buddying, 1265(buddying mush)) or 100% preflip analysis. No posts directly scream preflip analysis but its very clear that she is basically everything off of a red Noraa flip and when that doesn't happen, nothing she says she can't take back. I think this slot is

scum

aorn.

Flea

Spoiler:

I don't have much to say here but I think overall, I agree with literally almost every single post from this user. Well, I ... conditionally agree. Meaning if I was a townie watching myself get tunneled in the current situation, I would have basically the exact same thoughts as Flea as town but VERY different thoughts as scum. As scum, I would just push myself and pocket LLD. This means win/win for scum cuz they aren't even gonna get any SRs for jumping on cuz I was legitimately just playing scummy as fuck, being defensive as fuck, and just failing so badly at obvtowning. Plus pocketing LLD = a big shield that is right in front of you at all times cuz a bigger presence is much more noticeable and will get blamed more likely regardless of alignment. By far the most similar person to me.

TR

.

Gloria

Spoiler:

zero content. absolute lurker. two posts. I hate policy lims but if we are doing one, this is the slot to do it on. that may sound mean but I highly doubt we will get anything out of this slot if they continue with whatever they are doing and im always really paranoid that lurkers are scums cuz if they don't talk, ya can't sort. And if they be scum, ya still can't sort :/ This slot is a big question mark and a

null

.

Hopkirk

Spoiler:

I got lazy. Interpreting what all the verse meant got tiring after a literal 2 posts. I'm going to throw you in the

null

for now. I'll sort you as the day goes on.

LLD

Spoiler:

I can't sort this slot fairly because I literally want this slot to be scum so much that I don't even know what my read is anymore.

Lapsa

Spoiler:

I cannot follow anything of your progressions. I see zero progression in fact. But I feel like I'm obligated to give you a null cuz I gave Gloria a null and there's not a huge difference. Yeah, you 100% seem more opportunistic but I mean its unfair cuz Gloria hasn't said anything about the game and thats worse imo.

Null but scum lean

. None of your votes are justified and you don't engage anyone.

Murder

Spoiler:

Pretty annoyed at this slot atm. I hate that someone that has legit played a whole game with town!me and knows that im a big baby when it comes to not being stubborn, won't hear me out. He claims he engages me and shit but every time it reads to me like "Just fucking accept you are dead bitch. Now calm your ass and solve the whole game for me if you are town. If you don't, then ur scum" I feel forced to give reads but then you just come around and are like "oop well it doesn't matter cuz ur dead meat anyways" When Mush says it, it's different. You know why? Because mush understands that I fucked up but is unwilling to save me. You, on the other hand are basically pressuring me to give reads, pressuring me to not be antitown when I am mad, and constantly just being like "stop being mad noraa. ur dying anyways" That logic doesn't click with me and constantly just repeating the same damn thing to me isn't gonna get you whatever tf it is that you want from me. All you are gonna do is make me MAD. I'm throwing you in my SRs because I believe that town!you would see the town in me considering I am the exact same stubborn and stupid that I was in Roses. You aren't not seeing it. You know it is true but you know I am an easy lim as scum so you are pushing me hard. Thats the best I can interpret your play this game. I think you are

scum

.

Mush

Spoiler:

town

asf. there is no question. your play is 1000000% the same as the last game I was in with you where you were town and I was scum. It's a shame the one game I get to be the same alignment, I fucked myself over.

Pooky

Spoiler:

I don't know. I have trouble reading slots with this playstyle. Jokes can only go so far before they start looking like absolute trolling. I sincerely do not know and have flip flopped multiple times on you. I think I will throw you in the

null

.

Shelly

Spoiler:

ok I struggle with reading shelly and get really paranoid bc she has fooled me all the way before. In roses, I was hard tunneling her slot but she replaced in and I got really paranoid but then was like hmmm these reactions are townie. I ended up dropping the SR and untunneled. She coasted a tiny bit and threw me all the way off. I ended up tunneling elsewhere and almost drove a mislim when she was the last scum. This game, I've gotten quite some scum vibes. The problem is that based on my knowledge from playing with her, when she seems town, she is scum. When she seems scum, she is town. But in the Roses mafia pt, she said that she knew a lot of the players and was going to not play her normal scum game and now im extremely paranoid. I think you are scummy bc of all the buddying up to LLD, all the weird interaction with Bell(if that interaction was SvT, I think you are the scum), also bc of some really weak reasoning(ie post 68) I am absolutely paranoid and I currently still somewhat believe my read is correct so this is a

SR

Taylor

Spoiler:

town

asf. exact reasons as mush. anyone SRing, should meta dive. It's clear she is town. no question at all. I've learned to trust you, Taylor. The reason is that .... you don't really lie to be absolutely honest. I can explain this once its legal otherwise it breaches ongoing game rules so currently I cannot yet.

Theta

Spoiler:

Agreed with Isis on a TR here but flipped a few times and now this slot's

null

. Also im getting tired so the rest of the explanations r gonna be shorter. Edit: they basically dne

Titus/VaultDweller

Spoiler:

VaultDweller I had a scum lean/scumread on. Titus ... eh. Seems to be efforting more than normal. I have trouble reading replacements right away ... they throw me off. I'd like to re-sort this slot later so I'll lower the SR to a

null

for the time being

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Uno

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Vaxkiller/Isis

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Zdenek

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

I might go in and finish up the last few ISOs tomorrow but rn im tired. Im going to bed and they r gonna stay null for now.

Noraa, why do you feel obligated to try so hard in this game?

Spoiler: Comments

@Adorable - She knows how to play scum, don't count her out. But I will say that yes, it is possible Adorable is newbtown OMGUSing there.

@Bell - Nothing about those posts are LAMIST, but I see you townread Bell in the end so whatever. It is funny that Bell reminds you of your fencesitty townself so you townread him. That's my towntell for you. I will add on that Bell's emotions jump out as me as town, but yeah in any case, I agree with this read.

@Fidget - What about those posts scare you, exactly? Again, you're throwing around LAMIST but I do not think that word means what you think it means. Your point of me being LAMIST in my first couple of posts then dropping it.. I have no idea what you mean by that. Your concerns with pre-flip analysis are correct, I have done that as scum in the past. However, I really am probably 60-75% sure you are scum here. With regards to the buddying point, I do not believe I have buddied Isis or Mush. I don't even townread Isis. I have no idea where that is coming from. Your read on me is based in another reality I cannot understand, except for the pre-flip analysis part which is understandable enough. I feel my play has been mainly to gather a small group of high townies and ensure your elimination. More recently, I'm weighing my options for who the first two to get the scroll before you are. I can follow why you find me hyper focusing on you suspicious, but in terms of reading other players, I am not simply townreading those who oppose you and scumreading those who are with you.

@Flea - Had to ISO Flea for this one. I am not really sure what it is that you're seeing that separates them from others pushing you.

@Gloria - who

@Hopkirk - I, too, have skimmed over many of Hopkirk's posts. I'll check him out for the both of us because I feel bad now. Yeah, so I generally like him. I'm in a similar spot thinking you're scum with bussers. I have similar locktown. He's quite the voice of reason. Hopkirk I know has a very good scum game, though. I will probably keep him as soft town and reevaluate as we go on, I fear I wouldn't scumread if he is scum here anyway.

@LLD - She's not scum.

@Lapsa - I don't believe this slot has ever had a mutual interaction with a single nother slot. Your analysis of him is good.

@Murder - He's probably not scum. Your emotions are influencing you heavily on this one, he's very calm and not at all like your characterization you give here. I tend to agree with Murder's logic. You are on your deathbed, but that does not mean you have to despair. I probably wouldn't be hearing any of that in your place either, to be fair. Hrm. In any case, you are not reading him clearly here, there is nothing about this read that makes him more likely to be scum.

@Mush - Yup.

@Pooky - Pooky's town, he bleeds town from the tayl0r interaction.

@Shellyc - I cannot for the life of me tell when shelly is scum. Her baseline is so scummy, I have no idea how to tell the difference. I'm not really sure where your scumread is coming from, but that's fine. I think I will evolve to a bit of a scumread on shelly in the case of your flipping town. Reason being, I think she may have been way too confident way too early (I'll have to recheck to make sure this is the case). I at least know shelly has done that as scum before.

@Tayl0r - Mm, well I believe tayl0r to be capable of high efforting as both alignments, while low effort is generally more town indicative. I want to say this is high effort for her, so no help there. The real chunk of my read on tayl0r would have to be her reaction to Pooky and LLD, which I

suppose

is fallible, since this is a highly frustrating situation regardless of your alignment.

@Theta - I believe that I like Theta's points on Adorbs, not so much on Hopkirk. I think based off of tone I like her slightly.

@Titus-Vault - Agree on holding off on this slot.

@Toogeloo - Going to need to check their ISO. Okay. They're misguided on Theta imo. I do not see how Theta trying to put Noraa into the third scroll holder is scum indicative? Very odd. No opinion on this slot yet though.

@UNOwen - I quite liked UNOwen's post about Adorbs/Noraa seeming awkward, although I'm not fully convinced yet. Your turning around on Adorbs gives me some pause. Otherwise no opinion yet.

@Vaxkiller/Isis - I wish this didn't go down in the way it did. No opinion yet.

@Zdenek - Like the Tayl0r/Pooky TvT take. No other comments yet.

[Tayl0r Swift]

do you guys notice how t-swift shut her mouth about Pooky being scum the second I offered her the 1 for 1 trade?

where did all that 95% confidence go?

i'll tell, you she's full of it and just made that up. If T-Swift town actually had 95% conviction that Pooky = scum then she would take this 1:1 in a heartbeat.

or, more plausibly, i was simply doing stuff irl and wasnt posting at all. im happy to do the trade, but dont want noraa dead and i dont want you going second.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you made plenty of posts after I offered the trade and me going 2nd is the only way the town consensus on Noraa gets enforced.

[Fidget]

do you guys notice how t-swift shut her mouth about Pooky being scum the second I offered her the 1 for 1 trade?

where did all that 95% confidence go?

i'll tell, you she's full of it and just made that up. If T-Swift town actually had 95% conviction that Pooky = scum then she would take this 1:1 in a heartbeat.

or, more plausibly, i was simply doing stuff irl and wasnt posting at all. im happy to do the trade, but dont want noraa dead and i dont want you going second.

I have to agree, Pooky is jumping to conclusions there. Unless I'm mistaken, Tayl0r wasn't ignoring him. She wasn't even in the thread at all.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'm waiting to see what Tayl0r has to say on the matter first. If she accepts, I'd take that to see you flip.

Otherwise, I'll keep doing what I'm doing: building up a map of the gamestate and planning targets to push.

im not giving pooky the second shot though.

[Bell]

I never see posts like the one fidget just made come from town. Ever.
Why do I have so many scum reads this game.

[Tayl0r Swift]

you made plenty of posts after I offered the trade and me going 2nd is the only way the town consensus on Noraa gets enforced.

i think most people have noraa as maybe town now. she needs to be flipped, but not so much that we give you second shot. if i go first im shooting a lurker slot or a scum slot other than you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I have to agree, Pooky is jumping to conclusions there. Unless I'm mistaken, Tayl0r wasn't ignoring him. She wasn't even in the thread at all.

my first mention of the T->P->N is : 1472

she made 6 posts after 1472 that did not address it, implies she was avoiding it. She made post 1468 so I doubt she "missed" my comment.

[shellyc]

Well, I guess I'd have to ask you what about it strikes you as towny. Do you know?

sometimes its kinda hard to explain tone but that tone reeks of newbtown, and the UNO/noraa logic vibes with my own logic (UNO forcedly bussing noraa)

[Fidget]

I never see posts like the one fidget just made come from town. Ever.
Why do I have so many scum reads this game.

Guess you can say you have now. All I want is for Tayl0r and Pooky to stop fighting. To answer your rhetorical question, that may be because on average a quarter of the things you read are coming from scum.

[shellyc]

I never see posts like the one fidget just made come from town. Ever.
Why do I have so many scum reads this game.

ratio = 15:5
why is that post coming from scum tho
fidget is close to locktown zone

[shellyc]

fidget do you like, see the possibility of noraa town because i find it so hard

that noraa wall is pure omgus

[Tayl0r Swift]

I have to agree, Pooky is jumping to conclusions there. Unless I'm mistaken, Tayl0r wasn't ignoring him. She wasn't even in the thread at all.

my first mention of the T->P->N is : 1472

she made 6 posts after 1472 that did not address it, implies she was avoiding it. She made post 1468 so I doubt she "missed" my comment.

did the posts i made refer to posts after 1472? because i post as i catch up so i often respond to the thread without seeing recent posts.

[Fidget]

fidget do you like, see the possibility of noraa town because i find it so hard

that noraa wall is pure omgus

I believe myself to be something of an expert on the Noraa reads wall now.

People pushing Noraa ->
Adorable(newbtown), Fidget(scum), Flea(town), Hopkirk(soft town / null), LLD(scum but admits to not thinking clear), Murder(scum), Pooky(null), Shelly(scum), UNOwen(null)

People defending Noraa ->
Mush (town), Tayl0r(town)

She trends towards viewing her attackers unfavorably and vice versa, yes. Interestingly enough, the reads I had the most trouble understanding (Adorable, Flea) were townreads she gave out to those on her wagon. I believe she is not thinking clearly on her LLD and Murder reads regardless of alignment.

To answer your question, I do still see the possibility. I'm maybe 65% on scum. I have a terrible track record reading you and Noraa, although I have found that generally Noraa being more uncertain is +town for her. I don't think she had the chance to exhibit that this game, too many emotional distractions.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you posted 1468 and i posted 1472 3 minutes later your next 6 posts avoid 1472 and you basically veer off me completely because you realize I am ready to trade my life for yours and that's not something you want despite scumreading me at 95%