Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

Krazy · Post Post #4425 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:04 pm

###Uncolored Fights-only 1.3-1.8

Spoiler:

Looking at this point Tanner, I think it's worth observing that perhaps the chara-slot and beeboy cross-bussing for much of day creates challenges for a scum player. Pooky spends much of his time off-wagon. I could see this as a consequence of just not really knowing what to do with the CLAP/beeboy-slot crossbus, not wanting to build on the bussed wagons but also not wanting to promote a counter-wagon. In such a scenario sitting back might make sense.

We can see what other strategies would look like here. Prism, if scum, would have been going for a VCA-wifom inducing double up with beeboy on catboi in early game and then transitioning to a conventional counter-wagon on Hectic a bit later. From a VCA perspective, there's nothing here very town-clearing for Prism-slot, but based on Prism's later interactions with Chara I still don't really think that slot ever flips scum.

In a world of Tweet scum, Tweet basically decides that she's okay risking a solo-endgame between 1.3 and 1.4 by turning the beeboy wagon into the leading wagon, doubling up with CLAP, although I'd need to review that part of the game to see whether the Hectic wagon seemed to have momentum or looked likely to go through despite resistance since that was part of the pre-replace in stuff that's still a bit harder for me to remember.

Of these three worlds, I think Pooky does seem the easiest to see. Although I should double check that Tweet is telling the truth about disliking scum, the 1.5 vote would be surprising-ish for scum Tweet.

I do think you're right that Pooky not pushing a counter-wagon even when he was becoming a major wagon is odd for day 1, and concerning when the main counter-wagon in question is on scum.

Tanner · Post Post #4426 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:06 pm

In post 2953, Prism wrote:Oh holy FUCK I missed that, Jesus Christ what a terrible rule

IF YOU ARE TOWN DROP WHAT YOU ARE DOING ASAP AND HAMMER TAYLOR THAT'S ONLY F-1

LAVENDER THAT MEANS YOU FOR THE LOVE OF GOD VOTE AND REMEMBER TO USE HURT TAGS

In post 2954, CantHateAPuppy wrote:Meh I still want hectic over taylor, but I'll take this if that's the only option left

these two posts are 16 ssconds apart.

surely. surely it can't be. it can't be prism and puppy deciding to troll me together before winning. s u r e l y.

Krazy · Post Post #4427 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:08 pm

In post 4423, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Krazy do you think I'm scum?

I would say right now I more hope you are scum than feel confident you are scum. But given the other candidates, it does seem like you're the best bet. This is the part of the game where sometimes it does just become "well none of these other people are scum, so you're scum I guess" even though you didn't really do anything wrong as scum and maybe did some things really right, particularly in how you approached my slot around my replace-in.

Krazy · Post Post #4428 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:11 pm

If Prism was scum this game she must have decided at some point that this was going to be a game where she took the piss in a big way.

I mean, I've been burned, most notably by Nancy, as a hyper-posting scum. With big AtE as well. But Nancy put like a massive amount of effort into emotionally manipulating me specifically that game, and this game Prism just... felt like a town madlass

I probably should read some of her scum games anyway, but don't think I can get there tonight and anyway I think Alisae is kinda townie on er own at this point anyway so I don't have a huge motivation to rethink the slot I've been most confident on all game

*excuse possible double post, but seemed like board tried to eat this one so posting again

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4429 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:11 pm

In post 4424, Tanner wrote:also i'm thinking about how i have ~decent reasons for everyone to not be scum and then my pooky reason is "he's a better scumplayer than this, if he were scum day one doesn't happen like that" but like last time i thought like that i was deadass wrong so maybe i should stop lmao

i mean name a single d1 where a scum partner of mine got lynched

its basically never

except menagarie and thats cuz it was some post restricted thing where i end up gladiating versus the Goddess Isis herself

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4430 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:12 pm

like there's no way elements is trying to sell "spare" with me like that if we are scum together

just no way.

I would've told Ele to keep quiet while I did my evangelizing ^_^

ISO · Post Post #4431 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:13 pm

Prism could have pretended to lead the charge on a last second panic swap to Lavender and won the game off that. That's what I would've done prolly

Krazy · Post Post #4432 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:13 pm

In post 4311, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:whats 800+ posts supposed to mean?

if prism was scum she had unusually high wim, in the vein of boon, nancy, or other hyper-posting scum players (but if she is a typical polarized player, this should generally be town indicative)

ISO · Post Post #4433 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:14 pm

In post 4427, Krazy wrote:
In post 4423, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Krazy do you think I'm scum?
I would say right now I more hope you are scum than feel confident you are scum. But given the other candidates, it does seem like you're the best bet. This is the part of the game where sometimes it does just become "well none of these other people are scum, so you're scum I guess" even though you didn't really do anything wrong as scum and maybe did some things really right, particularly in how you approached my slot around my replace-in.

Seems like we play in a lot of similar ways lol

Krazy · Post Post #4434 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:14 pm

In post 4431, Morning Tweet wrote:Prism could have pretended to lead the charge on a last second panic swap to Lavender and won the game off that. That's what I would've done prolly

I kinda feel like Prism could have led a charge onto anyone tbh

Like for Prism to be scum she must have seriously run out of steam when Chara replaced out because it's not like she did a typical scum replace out because her slot was under too much pressure

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4435 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:15 pm

In post 4432, Krazy wrote:if prism was scum she had unusually high wim, in the vein of boon, nancy, or other hyper-posting scum players (but if she is a typical polarized player, this should generally be town indicative)

1. I have almost 800 posts

2. Prism replaced out

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4436 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:16 pm

like I had 960 posts in Micro 960 and I still got lylo'lynched so r we really using post count to measure will to win?

ISO · Post Post #4437 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:17 pm

PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 4424, Tanner wrote:also i'm thinking about how i have ~decent reasons for everyone to not be scum and then my pooky reason is "he's a better scumplayer than this, if he were scum day one doesn't happen like that" but like last time i thought like that i was deadass wrong so maybe i should stop lmao
i mean name a single d1 where a scum partner of mine got lynched

its basically never

except menagarie and thats cuz it was some post restricted thing where i end up gladiating versus the Goddess Isis herself :(

How do you save someone who isn't even around? Everyone already made up their minds on Elements from when he was around -- how would you have changed that?

PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like there's no way elements is trying to sell "spare" with me like that if we are scum together

just no way.

I would've told Ele to keep quiet while I did my evangelizing ^_^

I know and that's probably part of why you've lived so long. It's really hard to believe that's how you guys went about it. But you might have.

ISO · Post Post #4438 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:18 pm

In post 4436, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like I had 960 posts in Micro 960 and I still got lylo'lynched so r we really using post count to measure will to win?

Prism's WIM

was

huge though

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4439 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:21 pm

I probably attack one of the weaker slots and push it into a corner. I'm pretty good at misyeeting people on d1 for stupid reasons - the final ramp up on elements wasnt so much because everyone suspected him as there just wasn't a lot of things going on and time was running out.

No there's just no way I tell someone like elements they should push the spare plan.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4440 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:22 pm

In post 4438, Morning Tweet wrote:Prism's WIM was huge though

He literally left the game.

Krazy · Post Post #4441 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:22 pm

In post 4339, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:the other line of thought I had was that lavender doesnt make sense as a clear because both Tweet and Prism are better clears than her so it wouldn't make sense to clear Lavender unless one of Tweet/Prism was scum.

like can't you just say tweet?

why does prism ever *do that* to Chara as scum? it's not like she got townread more by chara for it. it was just weird and confusing and totally lost but she thought it would give her a townread I guess?

I mean you could argue I'm asking the wrong question (why does prism do that as town?) but still, how does prism have a scum motivation in how she played days 2 and 3?

ISO · Post Post #4442 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:23 pm

In post 4440, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 4438, Morning Tweet wrote:Prism's WIM was huge though
He literally left the game.

They upset Chara needlessly

Also, I was under the impression they left because Nacho repped in. was i wrong abt that

Krazy · Post Post #4443 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:24 pm

In post 4435, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:1. I have almost 800 posts

2. Prism replaced out

like these are fine points but even then I'd be like "but Prism was very very different from her scumgame and Alisae also seems relatively consistent with er towngame"

Krazy · Post Post #4444 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:24 pm

In post 4442, Morning Tweet wrote:Also, I was under the impression they left because Nacho repped in. was i wrong abt that

is this true? is there a prism/nacho thing I should be aware of?

Krazy · Post Post #4445 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:27 pm

In post 4374, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i kinda wish i was it. that would be a happy ending

???

ISO · Post Post #4446 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:27 pm

In post 4444, Krazy wrote:
In post 4442, Morning Tweet wrote:Also, I was under the impression they left because Nacho repped in. was i wrong abt that
is this true? is there a prism/nacho thing I should be aware of?

No idea I just thought someone mentioned that. In any case I don't think the replacement has anything to do with Prism's WIM, cause it was huge and from what I can tell that is NOT scum Prism. And I generally am not really wanting to entertain Prism.

Pooky on the other hand has to if he's scum here. Unless he wants to knock out both Hectic and his #1 townread in me that he previously stated he will be sheeping. That would be ruthless!

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4447 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:28 pm

In post 4445, Krazy wrote:???

because it would be over with me dying

Krazy · Post Post #4448 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:28 pm

Spoiler:

In post 4355, Morning Tweet wrote:GENTLEMEN AND HERBS OF THE JURY

Evidence supporting Krazy is town:

In post 4292, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 4192, Krazy wrote:but yeah, between the catboi kill, which was one of the only slots hard defending me, and the tanner clear, which seems to serve no purpose other than getting me fought today, I want to say basically every visible scum night action has either been to make my slot lynchable

Clap joins a three-deep wagon on me day 2 with the other scum already dead

like, I'm just town. I'm not actually sure who the last scum is, but I feel like if you think about what scum is trying to do this game you will realize that me getting fought is basically their top priority at this point since it's definitely necessary to them winning the game
also toss on Prism's redtea meta in like, 1581 and 2744 for example
And double toss on Krazy's irritated reaction to Tanner suspecting him. I live and die by the principle that people are more likely to say mean things they might regret if they at least feel justified in doing so. Scum would not unless they really thought they were being caught for the wrong reasons.
In post 3859, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 3851, Hectic wrote:I've been thinking about this Tanner push from Krazy, and I get this feeling that scum!Krazy would be a lot more okay with pushing this harsh/slightly mean angle than town!Krazy. As scum, it's all for the sake of the game and fabricated, so no hard feelings. As town, I feel like he's less likely to attack Tanner using this angle unless he's extremely confident, since he'd feel worse about it in case he's wrong. but I don't think the reasons for his push should equate to him being extremely confident? Tanner's start of day 3 wall was so towny, because it was stream of consciousness posting, and really hard to fake as scum, but Krazy continued pushing there regardless.
I guess I take more of an opposite stance on this. I think Krazy wouldn't feel justified in being somewhat mean if he didnt feel like Tanner was genuinely trying to portray him poorly -- which implies that Krazy really is town that (somewhat emotionally in my opinion) believes Tanner is scum.

If Krazy is scum, then he knows Tanner is town who really does believe Krazy is overlooking what makes Tanner town (or whatever things might have upset him).

I suppose I just dont believe in fabricating being upset with someone and then justifying it because 'it's just for the sake of the game'. Not to say you can't do that, I just think itd be unfun and I'm willing to bet it happens far, far less often than the alternative. so all in all I feel town!Krazy would be much more likely to feel justified in getting angry than scum!Krazy would feel justified in feigning it.

Evidence supporting Pooky is scum:

Today is planned out in such a way that gives Pooky a fighting chance of winning. The spares help for an easy Krazy elim. Lav gives him a free vote tomorrow. Alisae is trying eir hardest to be suspicious and Pooky is throwing extra suspicion there despite voting for Krazy first.

Pooky did not hard-bus Elements don't let him tell you otherwise, he only committed after Ele was already dead. Granted he distanced from Ele, but catboi (and to a lesser extent redtea) were always higher value targets until Elements was dead meat.

I went through Pooky's entire ISO and did not find conclusive evidence he is town. I can do this for every other player but not Pooky.

Evidence supporting Pooky is town:

Ear flops!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (disclaimer: im being bribed to include this)

Evidence supporting Krazy is scum:

.

.

.

Can I get a refresher on why Krazy is scum? Pooky sure doesn't know. He's off being concerned about Prism i think

I'm just going to throw out that for Tweet to be scum, Tweet would have to be ready to lynch me tomorrow after this post

like... I think it's just Pooky?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #4449 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:29 pm

In post 4446, Morning Tweet wrote:No idea I just thought someone mentioned that. In any case I don't think the replacement has anything to do with Prism's WIM, cause it was huge and from what I can tell that is NOT scum Prism. And I generally am not really wanting to entertain Prism.

Pooky on the other hand has to if he's scum here. Unless he wants to knock out both Hectic and his #1 townread in me that he previously stated he will be sheeping. That would be ruthless!

that's what I'm saying.

If I'm scum I would never throw Tweet and Prism in the un-conf pile. You two would be conf. I'd let Tanner fight Krazy, and then try to snipe Lavender off