Death Curse

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Lapsa

[Toogeloo]

Did... Did I just perform a summon?

[MURDERCAT]

That's actually sketchy?

[Nero Cain]

¶

Votecount 1.11

[5] Noraa:

UNOwen, Hopkirk, Adorable, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT,

[3] Adorable:

Noraa, Theta Alpine, Vaxkiller

[2] PookyTheMagicalBear

Tayl0r Swift, Titus

[2] shellyc:

Bell, Fidget

[1] Hopkirk:

Lady Lambdadelta

[1] Bell:

shellyc

[1] Tayl0r Swift:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1]Lapsa:

Lapsa

[4] Not Voting:

Gloria Cleary, MUSHSHAGANA, Zdenek, Flea The Magician

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-28 03:35:35).

Joint moderator ISO.

[Toogeloo]

Dude has one of (if not the) least amount of posts in game and hadn't posted in a day, and then responds to me?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah like I don't blame anyone for not reading, but actively reading and not posting looks weird

[Toogeloo]

Why not...

Unvote;
Vote: Lapsa

[Noraa]

Yeah ... that was concerning. Lapsa has posted like 2 things but replies faster than I check this thread(which is a very fast speed for the most part)

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

I got eliminated in three of my games this week so I'll have a lot more time to dedicate to this game. An hour ago I started ISOing and currently I have a read on everyone ... until I got lazy at the end but I might finish it up tomorrow. Have an unfinished reads list. I efforted these quite a bit so please set some time aside to read it. I am finally not overgamed(I had 9 games going on but 1 ended and I just got eliminated in 3 others recently so I finally have a clearer view on everything)

Reads incoming in a few minutes.

A read for everyone here(I did it by ISO as to make my job much easier otherwise I would've gotten a headache reading the whole entire thread). No one gets excluded

Adorable

Spoiler:

post 244 is this slots opening post and to be absolutely and brutally honest, I still do not like it. Generally, when I see a post sussing me while I'm under a lot pressure, I will never like it but I have taken a hot break and I still don't like it. This means that it's no longer a "I was being emotional" type of thing but rather a much more fair and solid read. "Not understanding why I am being defensive" is a really interesting thing to say here. The reason is that 1)newbies are always defensive. Regardless of my wins/losses, I am a newbie with a little over 2 months of time on ms and that is a fact no one can question. 2)rather than asking why I am being defensive which many people have already pointed out, just state whether its town indicative or scum indicative from your pov. That all aside, I think I am not that convinced this slot is scum anymore. Every single post from this user oozes newbtells. There are 0 independent arguments and every argument is some sort of OMGUS(ie SR on Uno and SR on me). I relate to this on a spiritual level. No matter how many people are sussing me(pressure doesn't matter, any amount will suffice), I will legit just OMGUS the fuck out of them. I always try to justify it otherwise but really ... let's talk facts. Im a noob. I hate pressure. I OMGUS. This is my form of self protection and tho it looks stupid/scummy, it is what it is for now. I hope for that to change as well since it really doesn't help with scum hunting but I can't really do anything about it rn cuz I haven't progressed past the point where I stop caring about pressure and just do my own thing. My reads are still heavily influenced by pressure. This is proven in all of my town games (if anyone wants straight up evidence, I can provide it) This slot oozes newb and reminds me a lot of myself except less active(a lot less active actually). Throwing away all of my SRs on this slot for now. Hot take this slot is just

newbtown

.

Bell

Spoiler:

first glance over and this slot has a lot of LAMISTing(ie posts 125, 139, 520, etc). I think that's slightly scum indicative bc, I generally don't say a lot of that type of stuff as town but I think it could just be play style and im too lazy to meta dive you. I really liked your defense of me at the beginning tho. It was very reasonable and I believe that if I was seeing a newbie slot get tunneled like this, I would also reply like that. I really like the courage there bc I do believe that getting involved in things like this and disagreeing with people taking up town leader positions can often result in you getting thrown straight under the bus. Generally, when I am NOT the person getting tunneled, I have zero fear as town so I think zero fear is town indicative. Indecisiveness(imo) is also for the most part, town indicative. You had a lot of hmm is Noraa scum? Nah maybe they are town. Or maybe they are scum. Etc, etc. This reminds me of my pms with mods when I am a pr. It literally looks like this:

Noraa shoots blah

. Wait wait no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait actually no

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Wait no no no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait wait wait wait wait

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Argh sorry mod

Noraa shoots other blah

. final decision

Noraa shoots blah

(that was the first decision ) Indecisiveness, though it is slightly a personality trait for me, is generally town indicative. I find myself so much more certain and less flip floppy when scum yet I have so many doubts and lots of paranoia as town. Also one post that asked if I normally post reads lists early in the game was really good cuz thats like investigating in on some meta and stuff. Your a bit fencesitty about your SRs(I can provide examples if asked) but thats generally how I am as well. I've been trying to actually just stick to one read lately but that ends up biting me in the ass a lot of the times too so idk. still trying to find a balance. You remind me a lot of myself sometimes as well. I want to say this slot is likely

town

for now.

Fidget

Spoiler:

Post 36 and 290 scare me. Unlike Bell whose whole play here has been LAMIST-y, your's doesn't stay LAMIST. only the entrance is lamist and that is really scary. I always think first impressions are the most important(ironic cuz I blew mine but nonetheless, I do think this) One of my pretty close online friends once told me that no matter what, everyone will always remember the first impression you left on them. Whether or only subconsciously or like it was just yesterday depends on the person. When you come in with that super LAMIST entrance but then drop it immediately, I get really worried you are just faking a really town look first and dropping it and relaxing once you realize the pressure all got sucked away into a Noraa vortex of doom. You really only talk about me. Every post somehow relates to me. Your reads on everyone have something to do with me. Meaning you are doing 100% preflip analysis and every single read is only true if I flip red. I 100% see that as a hohoho guys I have reads that are all based on Noraa flipping red. And AHA when she flips green, I can just be like ana oop turns out preflip analysis aint that hot eh. Excuse me for not having reads now cuz horrible Noraa lead me astray with her terrible awful playstyle. Most of your posts are 100% sheeping/buddying(ie posts 296(buddying LLD), all the isis buddying, 1265(buddying mush)) or 100% preflip analysis. No posts directly scream preflip analysis but its very clear that she is basically everything off of a red Noraa flip and when that doesn't happen, nothing she says she can't take back. I think this slot is

scum

aorn.

Flea

Spoiler:

I don't have much to say here but I think overall, I agree with literally almost every single post from this user. Well, I ... conditionally agree. Meaning if I was a townie watching myself get tunneled in the current situation, I would have basically the exact same thoughts as Flea as town but VERY different thoughts as scum. As scum, I would just push myself and pocket LLD. This means win/win for scum cuz they aren't even gonna get any SRs for jumping on cuz I was legitimately just playing scummy as fuck, being defensive as fuck, and just failing so badly at obvtowning. Plus pocketing LLD = a big shield that is right in front of you at all times cuz a bigger presence is much more noticeable and will get blamed more likely regardless of alignment. By far the most similar person to me.

TR

.

Gloria

Spoiler:

zero content. absolute lurker. two posts. I hate policy lims but if we are doing one, this is the slot to do it on. that may sound mean but I highly doubt we will get anything out of this slot if they continue with whatever they are doing and im always really paranoid that lurkers are scums cuz if they don't talk, ya can't sort. And if they be scum, ya still can't sort :/ This slot is a big question mark and a

null

.

Hopkirk

Spoiler:

I got lazy. Interpreting what all the verse meant got tiring after a literal 2 posts. I'm going to throw you in the

null

for now. I'll sort you as the day goes on.

LLD

Spoiler:

I can't sort this slot fairly because I literally want this slot to be scum so much that I don't even know what my read is anymore.

Lapsa

Spoiler:

I cannot follow anything of your progressions. I see zero progression in fact. But I feel like I'm obligated to give you a null cuz I gave Gloria a null and there's not a huge difference. Yeah, you 100% seem more opportunistic but I mean its unfair cuz Gloria hasn't said anything about the game and thats worse imo.

Null but scum lean

. None of your votes are justified and you don't engage anyone.

Murder

Spoiler:

Pretty annoyed at this slot atm. I hate that someone that has legit played a whole game with town!me and knows that im a big baby when it comes to not being stubborn, won't hear me out. He claims he engages me and shit but every time it reads to me like "Just fucking accept you are dead bitch. Now calm your ass and solve the whole game for me if you are town. If you don't, then ur scum" I feel forced to give reads but then you just come around and are like "oop well it doesn't matter cuz ur dead meat anyways" When Mush says it, it's different. You know why? Because mush understands that I fucked up but is unwilling to save me. You, on the other hand are basically pressuring me to give reads, pressuring me to not be antitown when I am mad, and constantly just being like "stop being mad noraa. ur dying anyways" That logic doesn't click with me and constantly just repeating the same damn thing to me isn't gonna get you whatever tf it is that you want from me. All you are gonna do is make me MAD. I'm throwing you in my SRs because I believe that town!you would see the town in me considering I am the exact same stubborn and stupid that I was in Roses. You aren't not seeing it. You know it is true but you know I am an easy lim as scum so you are pushing me hard. Thats the best I can interpret your play this game. I think you are

scum

.

Mush

Spoiler:

town

asf. there is no question. your play is 1000000% the same as the last game I was in with you where you were town and I was scum. It's a shame the one game I get to be the same alignment, I fucked myself over.

Pooky

Spoiler:

I don't know. I have trouble reading slots with this playstyle. Jokes can only go so far before they start looking like absolute trolling. I sincerely do not know and have flip flopped multiple times on you. I think I will throw you in the

null

.

Shelly

Spoiler:

ok I struggle with reading shelly and get really paranoid bc she has fooled me all the way before. In roses, I was hard tunneling her slot but she replaced in and I got really paranoid but then was like hmmm these reactions are townie. I ended up dropping the SR and untunneled. She coasted a tiny bit and threw me all the way off. I ended up tunneling elsewhere and almost drove a mislim when she was the last scum. This game, I've gotten quite some scum vibes. The problem is that based on my knowledge from playing with her, when she seems town, she is scum. When she seems scum, she is town. But in the Roses mafia pt, she said that she knew a lot of the players and was going to not play her normal scum game and now im extremely paranoid. I think you are scummy bc of all the buddying up to LLD, all the weird interaction with Bell(if that interaction was SvT, I think you are the scum), also bc of some really weak reasoning(ie post 68) I am absolutely paranoid and I currently still somewhat believe my read is correct so this is a

SR

Taylor

Spoiler:

town

asf. exact reasons as mush. anyone SRing, should meta dive. It's clear she is town. no question at all. I've learned to trust you, Taylor. The reason is that .... you don't really lie to be absolutely honest. I can explain this once its legal otherwise it breaches ongoing game rules so currently I cannot yet.

Theta

Spoiler:

Agreed with Isis on a TR here but flipped a few times and now this slot's

null

. Also im getting tired so the rest of the explanations r gonna be shorter. Edit: they basically dne

Titus/VaultDweller

Spoiler:

VaultDweller I had a scum lean/scumread on. Titus ... eh. Seems to be efforting more than normal. I have trouble reading replacements right away ... they throw me off. I'd like to re-sort this slot later so I'll lower the SR to a

null

for the time being

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Uno

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Vaxkiller/Isis

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Zdenek

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

I might go in and finish up the last few ISOs tomorrow but rn im tired. Im going to bed and they r gonna stay null for now.

Last thing, I don't think most of town is even convinced im scum. I don't really think its a consensus read because I feel like everyone has had these reads shoved down their throat. I think killing me is 100% a policy lim. Limming off a bad playstyle that actually proves to be helpful to town in the long run(statistics show this :3 I lead 2/3 town games to victory) is not a good choice imo. I'm selling for a pretty fair price. Im annoying, stubborn and useless for a lot of the game but can be extremely helpful towards the end. Doesn't have to be endgame. The longer into the game, the better my play gets. Go meta dive if you don't believe me.

Noraa's read list was interesting enough, but she is very

capable of high effort as scum in this situation

. It's a bit mean if she is town but we are in a game state where there appears to actually be an overwhelming majority that thinks she is scum so I believe the best way forward is to clarify that at the first opportunity. Going through the process of cursing two players while this is hanging over the game does not seem a very smart idea.

Adorable's spiderweb accusation against me which connected together posts from three different players was pretty earnest, which could suggest newbtown. I think it will be possible to get a more solid read there as they post more.

capable =/= will.
I have always ALWAYS as scum claimed that I would post a huge wall. But I have NEVER actually done that. They either didnt get a wall OR they got a rip off short wall. I don't high effort as scum. I'll spam the fucking thread but I will never sit down and spend over an hour just typing up a damn readslist.

Hey Norraa, 5, I’ve made 5 posts and unlike Hopkirk and Shelley - the only ones other than you who have act bothered to comment on them - you clearly haven’t bothered to read them. Why is that?

This is post #6, please keep up, thanks.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

wait, what

I was rereading, just got to the end, and Lapsa ... self-votes for no reason. And there's a chance its a reply to Toogaloo.

Uh. Well.

So, uh, had a Day today, still ongoing, but I am making some time to post real quick. I already disliked Lapsa's play, but now I feel like Lapsa is possibly game-throwing town? Consider their ISO. Game is boring, blah blah.

In other EXCITING NEWS, my reread has changed a bit of my reads list.

I'm now iffier on Noraa. She came back bright and I thought she might have a chance ... then back on the defensive. Yes, other players helped put her there but she didn't even struggle to ignore them the way I would expect of her personality -- straight from an attempt at a triumphant comeback to getting down in the mud again. This shift is more significant than I make it sound -- the break in personality puts her at weakly scum for me now.

Hopkirk is heading back towards scum -- there's too many posts that aren't remotely serious, and too many posts with inconsistent seriousness. The content seems intentionally obfuscated, but what I've seen I don't really like. Zdenek is town in what world? Hmmmm. Interesting to see the Hopkirk-Pooky-Tayl0r dust-up trio too, because I have scum on both Hopkirk and Pooky. The thing that pinged me is how intense Hopkirk got, the jokes forgotten, and yet at the end Pooky's still fairly high on the town list. Like, I get it, I've done similar things -- but it smells like scum theater when you take into account that Hopkirk has jokes on full blast everywhere else.

UNEXPECTED TWIST: Liking Shelly for scum. Someone (eyeballs sort of ricocheted off of who but it stuck with me) pointed out that shelly tunnels as scum, and I thought back to Shelly's town game. Yeah, she was only in it with me for one day, okay, sure, but she had TARGET LOCKED the entire day and it was a lot softer than the aggression she's showing here. I'm making this a VERY tentative read because that game was a while ago, I suck at reading shelly, and she has always struck me as an adaptive player. It very well could be the intensity of this player list... But I can't rule it being a good read out.

Murdercat is slightly towny. I'm going to call it a gutread even though it isn't, I just forgot the points I disliked. I'll grab them in a bit.

Same with Fidget but in reverse, I don't like Fidget's slot right now but I can't remember what pinged me. I guess I could also have them mixed up, this thread is a monster.

Finally: Don't know what to think of Toogaloo other than agreeing that this game is marching at too fast a pace for me to contribute as much as I want. Wanted to announce that mostly because I'm mad I can't read that slot -- can I get someone to explain a read on them? Town or scum, don't care, I just want points to fix my brain on and reread the ISO with, it's just sort of washing over me without anything to really grab onto right now.

[MURDERCAT]

can I get someone to explain a read on them?

My sense of panda is that he is doing exactly what is be doing as scum, hence my nervousness

[MURDERCAT]

They* sorry

[Gloria Cleary]

wait, what

I was rereading, just got to the end, and Lapsa ... self-votes for no reason. And there's a chance its a reply to Toogaloo.

Uh. Well.

So, uh, had a Day today, still ongoing, but I am making some time to post real quick. I already disliked Lapsa's play, but now I feel like Lapsa is possibly game-throwing town? Consider their ISO. Game is boring, blah blah.

In other EXCITING NEWS, my reread has changed a bit of my reads list.

I'm now iffier on Noraa. She came back bright and I thought she might have a chance ... then back on the defensive. Yes, other players helped put her there but she didn't even struggle to ignore them the way I would expect of her personality -- straight from an attempt at a triumphant comeback to getting down in the mud again. This shift is more significant than I make it sound -- the break in personality puts her at weakly scum for me now.

Hopkirk is heading back towards scum -- there's too many posts that aren't remotely serious, and too many posts with inconsistent seriousness. The content seems intentionally obfuscated, but what I've seen I don't really like. Zdenek is town in what world? Hmmmm. Interesting to see the Hopkirk-Pooky-Tayl0r dust-up trio too, because I have scum on both Hopkirk and Pooky. The thing that pinged me is how intense Hopkirk got, the jokes forgotten, and yet at the end Pooky's still fairly high on the town list. Like, I get it, I've done similar things -- but it smells like scum theater when you take into account that Hopkirk has jokes on full blast everywhere else.

UNEXPECTED TWIST: Liking Shelly for scum. Someone (eyeballs sort of ricocheted off of who but it stuck with me) pointed out that shelly tunnels as scum, and I thought back to Shelly's town game. Yeah, she was only in it with me for one day, okay, sure, but she had TARGET LOCKED the entire day and it was a lot softer than the aggression she's showing here. I'm making this a VERY tentative read because that game was a while ago, I suck at reading shelly, and she has always struck me as an adaptive player. It very well could be the intensity of this player list... But I can't rule it being a good read out.

Murdercat is slightly towny. I'm going to call it a gutread even though it isn't, I just forgot the points I disliked. I'll grab them in a bit.

Same with Fidget but in reverse, I don't like Fidget's slot right now but I can't remember what pinged me. I guess I could also have them mixed up, this thread is a monster.

Finally: Don't know what to think of Toogaloo other than agreeing that this game is marching at too fast a pace for me to contribute as much as I want. Wanted to announce that mostly because I'm mad I can't read that slot -- can I get someone to explain a read on them? Town or scum, don't care, I just want points to fix my brain on and reread the ISO with, it's just sort of washing over me without anything to really grab onto right now.

I haven’t read pages of this game because there’s just too many new posts but considering that all 3 of Hopkirk, Shelley, Pooky want to kill Noraa, if you also now weakly sr Noraa, then do you think that all of these other slots are bussing her?

[Toogeloo]

Have you read my scum games? I'm an idiot savant scum player. If I'm not lynched Day 1, I live to endgame, but I tend to always ask myself how I didn't get lynched Day 1.

I don't really have a style. I just post what feels right, town or scum, and stick my foot in my mouth more often than not.

[Toogeloo]

My wiki is an open book though. Feel free to peruse.

[Gloria Cleary]

wait, what

I was rereading, just got to the end, and Lapsa ... self-votes for no reason. And there's a chance its a reply to Toogaloo.

Uh. Well.

So, uh, had a Day today, still ongoing, but I am making some time to post real quick. I already disliked Lapsa's play, but now I feel like Lapsa is possibly game-throwing town? Consider their ISO. Game is boring, blah blah.

In other EXCITING NEWS, my reread has changed a bit of my reads list.

I'm now iffier on Noraa. She came back bright and I thought she might have a chance ... then back on the defensive. Yes, other players helped put her there but she didn't even struggle to ignore them the way I would expect of her personality -- straight from an attempt at a triumphant comeback to getting down in the mud again. This shift is more significant than I make it sound -- the break in personality puts her at weakly scum for me now.

Hopkirk is heading back towards scum -- there's too many posts that aren't remotely serious, and too many posts with inconsistent seriousness. The content seems intentionally obfuscated, but what I've seen I don't really like. Zdenek is town in what world? Hmmmm. Interesting to see the Hopkirk-Pooky-Tayl0r dust-up trio too, because I have scum on both Hopkirk and Pooky. The thing that pinged me is how intense Hopkirk got, the jokes forgotten, and yet at the end Pooky's still fairly high on the town list. Like, I get it, I've done similar things -- but it smells like scum theater when you take into account that Hopkirk has jokes on full blast everywhere else.

UNEXPECTED TWIST: Liking Shelly for scum. Someone (eyeballs sort of ricocheted off of who but it stuck with me) pointed out that shelly tunnels as scum, and I thought back to Shelly's town game. Yeah, she was only in it with me for one day, okay, sure, but she had TARGET LOCKED the entire day and it was a lot softer than the aggression she's showing here. I'm making this a VERY tentative read because that game was a while ago, I suck at reading shelly, and she has always struck me as an adaptive player. It very well could be the intensity of this player list... But I can't rule it being a good read out.

Murdercat is slightly towny. I'm going to call it a gutread even though it isn't, I just forgot the points I disliked. I'll grab them in a bit.

Same with Fidget but in reverse, I don't like Fidget's slot right now but I can't remember what pinged me. I guess I could also have them mixed up, this thread is a monster.

Finally: Don't know what to think of Toogaloo other than agreeing that this game is marching at too fast a pace for me to contribute as much as I want. Wanted to announce that mostly because I'm mad I can't read that slot -- can I get someone to explain a read on them? Town or scum, don't care, I just want points to fix my brain on and reread the ISO with, it's just sort of washing over me without anything to really grab onto right now.

I haven’t read pages of this game because there’s just too many new posts but considering that all 3 of Hopkirk, Shelley, Pooky want to kill Noraa, if you also now weakly sr Noraa, then do you think that all of these other slots are bussing her?

P.edit. forgot to include Zdenek in this. Yeah don’t really get the Hopkirk tr on that slot at all.

[MURDERCAT]

Quite honestly, I'm not going to bother to do that until I have a scroll, you are a major target, or we are both in endgame. But I will keep that in mind.

[Adorable]

I saw on Noraa's recent reads list she put me as newbtown and I find this strange she still leaves her vote on me.

@Theta You never responded to #1658 and your theory looks really weird. shelly said on #347 Noraa hates bussing.

[Gloria Cleary]

Mushagana makes a lot of excuses. Is that par for the course with her? If it’s not, we should curse her for it.

Really really dislike this post.

Who is Titus?

Vault replacement.

Just ftr, Mush, LLD, Titus and Vax are all town and no one who is town should be sr any of them.

[MURDERCAT]

This is literally gonna be a 600 page game huh

[Gloria Cleary]

Zdenek: I genuinely don’t know what you want me to say from that post. It just looks like you’re fence sitting.

Not fencesitting. I think you're failing to make me think your town since there are red letters in your roll pm.

Another icky Z post.

[Gloria Cleary]

VOTE: Noraa

VOTE: Lapsa

Why the self-vote? No idea what to make of this slot. Absolutely no meaningful content whatsoever.

[MURDERCAT]

I believe this is standard lapsa play IIRC from long ago

[Gloria Cleary]

I believe this is standard lapsa play IIRC from long ago

So it’s entirely NAI then?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Gloria:

I think Noraa stuck her foot in it so deeply there's no hope of saving her. That's actually true regardless of alignment at this point. But you should also take note of how eager they are to redirect the curse to other targets, with the possible exception of Shelly. Pooky offering a trade for Noraa and Tayl0r could be a way to take out someone else (which, admittedly, Hopkirk did bring up) and get Noraa a second lease on life, for instance.

In more detail: Hopkirk opens the possibility of a different target from Noraa for the third place without pushing for it, Pooky pushes back on the idea but treats it like a reasonable argument. If you treat those slots as scum then there's a picture being painted of trying to create room to unbus Noraa without looking like that's what they're doing and without losing towncred by jumping off wagon when Noraa flips red.

I think Shelly's treating this more like a townie of her caliber and style would (probing at others but staying committed to Noraa), which is another reason my scumread is so, so very weak on her... it's based on loose, possibly outdated meta that someone else mentioned, by no means a slam-dunk. I just have no way to grasp her play at the best of times otherwise and this keeps me from feeling powerless.

As I've said before: the above Pooky-Hopkirk story is not the most likely narrative, but it's a possible one and the feeling I get is Unwholesome enough over there to make me say "sure, let's go with this". There are other possibilities that lend themselves to a scum interpretation too, and the key here for me is Hopkirk dropping the jokes: this is stuff meant for an /audience/, not for a /target/.