In post 2071, Gloria Cleary wrote:2 are completed towngames and the others are ongoing, but so no flips. That’s why I say you’re not making sense.
just stop talking to me about this if you can't take the time to look up things
Look up what exactly?
You really need to stop saying this for your own good and I’m not talking about the game. You seriously need to cease any discussion, even if it’s just
encouraging
people to read any ongoing games.
You can’t claim you have scum meta unless you can link me a single sciumgame where she’s playing similar to this.
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
-Norwee
"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
I have a meta headache. Jeeze... I have no clue how many of the pages I just read that can be surmised "look up the meta!" and "Look into the player!" -.-;
In post 2069, Hopkirk wrote:(phoneposting so only posting adjustments to the nominal thread, not workings)
Yeah, I don't want to lethal noraa at this point.
Pooky/Taylor I read as TvT.
(Unowen/Fidget/Toogeloo/Bell) - anyone want to make a wagon while we have time?
In post 2018, Bell wrote:Really don’t want to hand Noraa the scroll like ever.
In post 2019, Bell wrote:They’ve given us everything we need to read them correctly if we still can’t see that they’re town this game than this town sucks.
If you no longer want to kill Noraa then don’t you think these posts point to Bell town?
He's either scum or this is an ego thing for him. /:
Not getting town pings, though. Something's at an odd angle, antenna's on the fritz or something. It feels like Gloria's more interested in winning this argument than sorting. That isn't AI, but I note some dirty tricks -- demanding X, insufficiently defining X, getting ominous about provided-X being inadequate-X or even potentially rule-breaking-X, refusing to clarify/concede/drop/dismiss. It's not exactly fallacious, but it's ... underhanded? I don't like it and it feels like ends justifying the means, where the ends are apparently to get a scumread to concede that they don't have much meta they can discuss on one of the hardest to read players. That gains town ... what, exactly? Given enough players have been justifying strong reads on garbage meta all gameday long out of a sense of expediency, self included?
I agree with the POINT, I feel the ENERGY, but the APPROACH rubs me the wrong way. Town wouldn't still be rolling this rock uphill, would it? I mean, really, would it? I have no clue. I'm not doing a great job explaining here...
I mean, look at it like this: you're on the attack, and you've decided this slot is scum on the back of X interaction, approached in a Y manner. Vote dropped down, explanation of vote public, you're done here, yeah? You were on the attack -- when you get your read and drop your vote you have Won at Competitive Communication, good job, gold star. There's no need to get breathing room for you, there's nothing left to gain on this topic from this person. On to next steps, right? Well, you see...
Possible next steps:
--Look for second opinions. This involves reaching out to folks who are null or town on this slot and getting explanations of their reads or just sounding yours off to them for reactions from another person on the board. If you're continuing interaction you're changing the subject slightly to create an opening for third parties to butt in -- you're looking for outside input to check yourself against or to provide perspective you're missing.
--Build a case. If you go this route, you have /drained this subject dry/, there's nothing left here. So you start going at sideways angles, getting opinions on other events, asking for reads lists, you know, just generally trying to flesh things out. A favorite tactic of mine in particular is "let's you and him fight" -- dragging in two players with different POVs and incompatible personalities on the same topic and saying something contentious. The results are /always/ interesting to watch and provide fodder for reads. No matter what, you're aiming to increase the breadth and scope of your read.
--Find common ground. Very good in the early game: abusing pocket-happy scum to help nuance your reads out is very helpful for applying pressure where you want it and building a townbloc. Also helps you stay in the good shoes of townies who are widely scumread, which can help town coalesce later (there's emotional room for the outside townie to attach to the bloc). I make a point of trying to work with my scumreads once I'm ready for action, though I recognize this is uncommon. Either way, you don't harp on the same topic here either, it prevents you from finding common ground and room to coexist. The goal is to be able to play with this person regardless of your read on them, and use their play combined with your read to advance your wincon.
--Move to a new target. Drop it. Time to get more reads elsewhere.
But, well, you see, it's like, I dunno, really, except, uh, in this case, it's ... repeat the exact same words on the exact same subject to the exact same person. Slight exaggeration. It's as if the only important thing to you is winning the argument. Not the game, not a power struggle for town leader, just some singular tiny argument in a game of argumentation, argumentation you cannot always come out on top of unless you believe yourself to be perfect. And not even just winning the argument, but winning by the rhetorical equivalent of dropping a car on them: just brute force and relentlessness.
Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing or is this lack of sleep + adrenaline crash?
In post 1904, Noraa wrote:
I was at E-1 at one point but continued to just lurk until I found the perfect opportunity to direct attention elsewhere
A) 409 posts = semi-lurker, this is the difference between you and I
B) I skimmed around the areas you got put at E-1, the wagon pressure was much less intense
c) You posts
were
more controlled
I'm not entirely sure that was a productive use of my time.
I saw that you've got me as a town read from my ISO. In Bats I was pretty well tunneled all of day 1 but I still made a sincere effort to sort Redados, I have done nothing of the sort for you so far. Why are you cutting me so much slack here?
In post 2069, Hopkirk wrote:(phoneposting so only posting adjustments to the nominal thread, not workings)
Yeah, I don't want to lethal noraa at this point.
Pooky/Taylor I read as TvT.
(Unowen/Fidget/Toogeloo/Bell) - anyone want to make a wagon while we have time?
In post 2018, Bell wrote:Really don’t want to hand Noraa the scroll like ever.
In post 2019, Bell wrote:They’ve given us everything we need to read them correctly if we still can’t see that they’re town this game than this town sucks.
If you no longer want to kill Noraa then don’t you think these posts point to Bell town?
Not really, mafia can choose to townread Noraa here with little cost, and Bell doesn't strike me as trying to form an alternative in actions, just in words. He's also got poor interactions with a lot of my other scumpool tier players. I still need to reread Bell though, so expect more detail eventually.
I was going to follow up to Bell with shelly. The point was (correct me if I'm wrong) that shelly has behaviour that depends on how people are reading her. My counterpoint was going to be that I don't recall this being a noticeable feature of her scum game. What I do recall is that she was hyper aggressive and acted as though she was constantly assessing the game. My read on her so far is that she has been more cautious, certainly no nonsense reaction tests or read list spamming. There was the super confident Noraa read but most of the game also had that so I wasn't troubled by it. However I'm beginning to wonder if I am naive in thinking I have a good handle of her game based on one experience. I think Bell made a point about shelly de-escalating but not actually reevaluating. She has done a similar thing with me now, earlier on she accused me of trying to claim credit for the Noraa wagon, I responded by saying that "juicy and filling" was not meant as a serious description of the five or so words I had given before then, she seemingly accepted that and said my response was slightly town AI, then later I see she has repeated the exact same claim with no hint she had even considered my response. So maybe there is a point here.
What's bothering me the most though is that I think she is talking utter rot about the Adorable post and has been slippery both times I attempted to get her to clarify. I would really like to see shelly actually engage with my questions here.
In post 2084, Hopkirk wrote:
Be direct with your words or they aren't worth much.
Exactly.
Or if that is not clear, I'm saying that if you are town you ought to substantiate your suspicion of me at some point instead of just asking if anyone is up for a wagon.
No, I am pretty much creating an alternative wagon and me not interacting well with other scum reads when you don't have flips is just weird thinking. Especially when, I'm town so like, what the heck kind of weird interactions could I be having with them?
In post 2089, Hopkirk wrote:I'm up for four wagons here. I'm not really up for a vanity wagon with two days to go.
pedit - Strahd doesn't stand a chance.
You could always try making an argument?
I was waiting for your ISO so I had something to engage with, but if you're floating my death before doing that then some sort of justification of your thoughts would be good.
Actually hmm, it's not fair for me to have that expectation when you have so many other things and players to deal with. Pretend I asked next scroll phase instead.
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
-Norwee
"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
Alright, here’s a scumgame where she is actually tryharding. I don’t think she’s playing similarly at all here. Still haven’t found any “jumping in front of moving train” type of games yet though.
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
-Norwee
"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
Alright, here’s a scumgame where she is actually tryharding. I don’t think she’s playing similarly at all here. Still haven’t found any “jumping in front of moving train” type of games yet though.
I’d say based on that scumgame and the only completed one I could find, I’d say town. The main difference I could see between those two games is that scum!Tayl0r while ALSO tryharding, somewhat resembles a bit of a bot, very little emotion, so there’s a kind of artificiality about it, where as town!Tayl0r either isn’t or if she is, she gets fiery. So, she reads kind of disconnected in the scumgame I linked. I think her frustration at LLD read as sincere to me and she expressed similar thoughts to Mush in that game she referenced which I skimmed but can’t recall.
@Tayl0r, which one is the game you played with Mush where her playstyle in that game frustrated you?
Who are your other scumreads besides Tayl0r, Noraa? Bell and who else?
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
-Norwee
"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
