Mini 657 - Chain Reaction Mafia (Winner Announced)

[forbiddanlight]

And more discussion means more time for scum to slip up.

I prefer having a 99% chance of winning.

And more discussion would also allow any pro town acting scum to slip up. that's why longer days almost ALWAYS favor town.

No fair! I said it first

[ZombieSlayer54]

Voting is what starts discussion, people. Saying "we need discussion" is a stupid attempt to look pro-town.

I'm not saying we should speed-lynch, but we should keep this game moving as fast as possible. If you want discussion, DISCUSS SOMETHING!!!!!

I thought you just said discussion was bad?

And we are discussing something, in case you have not noticed.

[Crazy]

The opportunity that you're missing here is that this is a game where you can freely act as scummy as you want without fear of being lynched, since the goal of this game is to find

town

, not

scum

.

Now, of course, I know we can lynch Slayer right now and win the game, but there's no convincing you guys of that fact.

I have never been perceived as the most pro-town person in a game,

ever

, so especially here, I'm not gonna give a crap as to how you think of me, because I know from the start that Slayer is likely not going to be lynched.

Now, look here, I would love a speedlynch, but I know you guys won't want that, because either...

a. You want to play a game of mafia.
b. You

are

mafia.

The problem with discussion here is that it will give scum time to manipulate us, and try to make each other look pro-town. If we lynched Tovarish right now (the dice target), then we have an 82% chance of winning. That would mean that this game is broken, right? Texas Justice was just taken off the Open Queue, and that only had a 73% chance of town winning. This is MORE than that. If we could just quicklynch Tovarish, we'd probably win in a second.

Or we discuss this game for a while, end up lynching Jex (because Forbiddan just LOVES discussion and can't POSSIBLY be scum), and losing the game.

ZS, you will not get an 99% chance of winning by adding discussion, since discussion usually helps the town, but when the town has such a high win percent rate anyway, it probably won't end up helping that much, and I'm sure that it has potential to hurt us.

I want to discuss TDC, since it's really hard for me to imagine him being scum while coming up with a gamebreaking plan.

[forbiddanlight]

Or we discuss this game for a while, end up lynching Jex (because Forbiddan just LOVES discussion and can't POSSIBLY be scum), and losing the game.

You think I'm scum? Why not come out and say it? And I never vied to be the most pro town. I want to play mafia, and I don't want to be fucktarded about it, ok? Oh yeah, and I am town, thanks for the backhanded revelation.

ZS, you will not get an 99% chance of winning by adding discussion, since discussion usually helps the town, but when the town has such a high win percent rate anyway, it probably won't end up helping that much, and I'm sure that it has potential to hurt us.

Only if we have a bunch of sheep that can't think for themselves. Which you are obviously trying to make of us.

I want to discuss TDC, since it's really hard for me to imagine him being scum while coming up with a gamebreaking plan.

Only if it wasn't intentional misleading. I doubt it was, but given how scummy YOU'VE been acting and your covering for him makes me wonder.

Now, of course, I know we can lynch Slayer right now and win the game, but there's no convincing you guys of that fact.

Can you tell me why you know this for a fact? Perhaps it's because you know the mafia's positions, right?

The opportunity that you're missing here is that this is a game where you can freely act as scummy as you want without fear of being lynched, since the goal of this game is to find town, not scum.

And how the fuck does acting scummy help us win ANYWAY?

I want to discuss TDC, since it's really hard for me to imagine him being scum while coming up with a gamebreaking plan.

What do you want to discuss about him?

[Crazy]

Forbiddan, ask yourself this. What part of willing to lynch someone based on a die roll makes me scummy? It gives an 82% chance of win for the town, and I was supporting it before I even knew that the target was Tovarish.

And you still haven't proven that you can rig dice. I stand by my argument that you

can't

unless if you show me that you can do it.

And how the fuck does acting scummy help us win ANYWAY?

If you're not worried about staying alive, you can get more interesting reactions from people. Stop playing like you would in a normal game, and don't be afraid to get your hands a little dirty.

Can you tell me why you know this for a fact? Perhaps it's because you know the mafia's positions, right?

Slayer's after me on the chain. I know I'm town. Thus, I know lynching him would cause a town victory.

[forbiddanlight]

Forbiddan, ask yourself this. What part of willing to lynch someone based on a die roll makes me scummy? It gives an 82% chance of win for the town, and I was supporting it before I even knew that the target was Tovarish.

And you still haven't proven that you can rig dice. I stand by my argument that you can't unless if you show me that you can do it.

I personally can't. But take a look at Roll to Dodge in the Mishmash forum for an idea.

Slayer's after me on the chain. I know I'm town. Thus, I know lynching him would cause a town victory.

Fair nuff, I wasn't paying attention

If you're not worried about staying alive, you can get more interesting reactions from people. Stop playing like you would in a normal game, and don't be afraid to get your hands a little dirty.

Ah, but I'm not. If I were, I'd be voting you right now. Instead I'm trying to stall us enough so everyone gets a say rather than you throwing a speedlynch at us. People naturally follow someone who has taken the mantle of leadership. That's precisely what you are attempting to do, and I'm countering that best I can.

Forbiddan, ask yourself this. What part of willing to lynch someone based on a die roll makes me scummy? It gives an 82% chance of win for the town, and I was supporting it before I even knew that the target was Tovarish.

It's mostly the fact dice can be rigged. This actually isn't the point I find scummiest about you. It's the fact you are just trying to throw us into a lynch without even letting thought prevail, which is the point of the game.

Oh, and you could at least do the mod a favor and not break his game with chance.

[Jex]

Wow...lots of fighting and us really going nowhere. I understand both sides and don't know if I fully agree with either. There's no way to prove that discussion will help, but I'd rather discuss a bit before ending the game. I'm not good at math and probability of winning and all that, so I pretty much will take your word on the fact that the town has such a high percentage chance of winning.

I feel like scum would be more willing to sit in the background and wait for hasty decisions to occur in this game. Let other people stand out and take the spotlight and don't draw attention. Of course, I could be completely backwards, I just know that's what I would do.

I think that people need to start chiming in with whatever is on their minds and we all need to stop trying to break the game by rolling dice and things like that.

[Crazy]

Oh, actually, you're right about the dice thing, forbiddan. But I don't think it works in mafia games, since we can't edit our posts:

Note this this is not fool proof. People can edit their posts and get a new dice roll. It will usually say FIXED, but this is not foolproof either. If you are in a forum where people can edit their posts, you should pay close attention and/or only play with people you can trust.

Oh, and you could at least do the mod a favor and not break his game with chance.

I am sorry about this, and I do apologize to Max, but we're supposed to play the game to win, not try to play the game the way the mod intended.

Essentially this game is Loser Mafia, but we just have to lynch right one time. The idea behind this game is great because it rewards active participation from both factions, and it flips it so that we're looking for towntells instead of scumtells. However, I believe this particular set-up to be broken.

I love towntells, and I use them far more than most people, since most people just say OMG WIFOM whenever they hear someone talk about towntells. I believe TDC did a town-tell when he proposed his plan, since there is no reason that scum would propose to lynch a random person.

[Crazy]

I feel like scum would be more willing to sit in the background and wait for hasty decisions to occur in this game. Let other people stand out and take the spotlight and don't draw attention. Of course, I could be completely backwards, I just know that's what I would do.

Actually, that's not true, since the only way the scum could win outside of random luck is by proving their towniness. They can't show that if they're in the backseat all the time.

[forbiddanlight]

Oh, actually, you're right about the dice thing, forbiddan. But I don't think it works in mafia games, since we can't edit our posts:

I didn't even make that connection. I should have realized this. Alright, fair enough. Die rolls can't be broken. And the preview method doesn't work far as I know.

I love towntells, and I use them far more than most people, since most people just say OMG WIFOM whenever they hear someone talk about towntells. I believe TDC did a town-tell when he proposed his plan, since there is no reason that scum would propose to lynch a random person.

They would if that random person worked in their favor. Did you roll before or after he told you the plan? And also, didn't he just say person A, i.e top of the list? Just trying to see if I remember correctly.

I am sorry about this, and I do apologize to Max, but we're supposed to play the game to win, not try to play the game the way the mod intended.

But a win is much more satisfying when it's earned, not because someone broke the game with dice. I only like using dice when the odds are against me personally. It's a different sense of accomplishment when you make fate bow to you. This however is just a roll and we usually win. no fun at all. The chaos isn't there. So I'd rather win by finding the towniest.

[ZombieSlayer54]

The opportunity that you're missing here is that this is a game where you can freely act as scummy as you want without fear of being lynched, since the goal of this game is to find

town

, not

scum

.

Now, of course, I know we can lynch Slayer right now and win the game, but there's no convincing you guys of that fact.

I have never been perceived as the most pro-town person in a game,

ever

, so especially here, I'm not gonna give a crap as to how you think of me, because I know from the start that Slayer is likely not going to be lynched.

Now, look here, I would love a speedlynch, but I know you guys won't want that, because either...

a. You want to play a game of mafia.
b. You

are

mafia.

The problem with discussion here is that it will give scum time to manipulate us, and try to make each other look pro-town. If we lynched Tovarish right now (the dice target), then we have an 82% chance of winning. That would mean that this game is broken, right? Texas Justice was just taken off the Open Queue, and that only had a 73% chance of town winning. This is MORE than that. If we could just quicklynch Tovarish, we'd probably win in a second.

Or we discuss this game for a while, end up lynching Jex (because Forbiddan just LOVES discussion and can't POSSIBLY be scum), and losing the game.

ZS, you will not get an 99% chance of winning by adding discussion, since discussion usually helps the town, but when the town has such a high win percent rate anyway, it probably won't end up helping that much, and I'm sure that it has potential to hurt us.

I want to discuss TDC, since it's really hard for me to imagine him being scum while coming up with a gamebreaking plan.

If both of the scum act scummy, then we know who to lynch. So, really, there is no reason for scum to act scummy, even though we are not technically looking to directly lynch them.

Obviously. I am not going to consider you town just because you say you are.

Wait... Just check the lover chains... Uhh... YOU love slayer. So lynching slayer would you mean you would die, and I would be the last one standing.

Uhh, no. I do not want a speedlynch because we have ONE chance to lynch. ONE. I do NOT want to screw up the only chance we have. I mean, this is basically lylo from the get-go. Speedlynching would only be a bad thing. Discussion would draw out scum, etc. etc.

Wow. Crazy seems to not understand the basic concepts of Mafia.

DISCUSSION MAKES SCUM SLIP UP. THEREFORE, DISCUSSION IS GOOD, BECAUSE WE CAN FIND OUT WHO SCUM IS.

82% is NOT good enough for me. I want a nearly full proof chance.

Who says someone who loves discussion is not scum?

And why are you so certain Forbiddan and I are scum?

*Sigh*

Look, discussion ALWAYS helps the town. That is like, a basic rule of Mafia. I do not like anything BUT a 99% or near that chance when I lynch someone. Discussion increases my chances. Therefore, I like to discuss.

Not to get WIFOMy, but consider the fact that TDC came up with a "game-breaking plan" which actually does not work. To me, it seems like he came up with a plan that he knew did not work, but would look to people at first glance like it did work, in order to make himself seem townie.

Or you and him could just be scum buddies. One of the two.

Or we discuss this game for a while, end up lynching Jex (because Forbiddan just LOVES discussion and can't POSSIBLY be scum), and losing the game.

You think I'm scum? Why not come out and say it? And I never vied to be the most pro town. I want to play mafia, and I don't want to be fucktarded about it, ok? Oh yeah, and I am town, thanks for the backhanded revelation.

ZS, you will not get an 99% chance of winning by adding discussion, since discussion usually helps the town, but when the town has such a high win percent rate anyway, it probably won't end up helping that much, and I'm sure that it has potential to hurt us.

Only if we have a bunch of sheep that can't think for themselves. Which you are obviously trying to make of us.

I want to discuss TDC, since it's really hard for me to imagine him being scum while coming up with a gamebreaking plan.

Only if it wasn't intentional misleading. I doubt it was, but given how scummy YOU'VE been acting and your covering for him makes me wonder.

Now, of course, I know we can lynch Slayer right now and win the game, but there's no convincing you guys of that fact.

Can you tell me why you know this for a fact? Perhaps it's because you know the mafia's positions, right?

The opportunity that you're missing here is that this is a game where you can freely act as scummy as you want without fear of being lynched, since the goal of this game is to find town, not scum.

And how the fuck does acting scummy help us win ANYWAY?

I want to discuss TDC, since it's really hard for me to imagine him being scum while coming up with a gamebreaking plan.

What do you want to discuss about him?

:goodposting:

Forbiddan, ask yourself this. What part of willing to lynch someone based on a die roll makes me scummy? It gives an 82% chance of win for the town, and I was supporting it before I even knew that the target was Tovarish.

And you still haven't proven that you can rig dice. I stand by my argument that you

can't

unless if you show me that you can do it.

And how the fuck does acting scummy help us win ANYWAY?

If you're not worried about staying alive, you can get more interesting reactions from people. Stop playing like you would in a normal game, and don't be afraid to get your hands a little dirty.

Can you tell me why you know this for a fact? Perhaps it's because you know the mafia's positions, right?

Slayer's after me on the chain. I know I'm town. Thus, I know lynching him would cause a town victory.

It is not that. It is the fact that you want everyone else to just shut up and follow your plan, and that if they do not, then they are obviously scum.

Uhh... I thought YOU were the one who said something about rigging dice?

This is not Assassins in the Palace. This is a hell of a lot closer to a normal game than that. Basic rules still apply. Mafia have the knowledge, town has the majority. Stop acting like this game is so radically different.

And Slayer is actually after me on the Chain.

Uhh, seriously? Saying "Hey, I am town, follow my orders!"?

You, sir, are just making your case worse and worse.

Oh, actually, you're right about the dice thing, forbiddan. But I don't think it works in mafia games, since we can't edit our posts:

Note this this is not fool proof. People can edit their posts and get a new dice roll. It will usually say FIXED, but this is not foolproof either. If you are in a forum where people can edit their posts, you should pay close attention and/or only play with people you can trust.

Oh, and you could at least do the mod a favor and not break his game with chance.

I am sorry about this, and I do apologize to Max, but we're supposed to play the game to win, not try to play the game the way the mod intended.

Essentially this game is Loser Mafia, but we just have to lynch right one time. The idea behind this game is great because it rewards active participation from both factions, and it flips it so that we're looking for towntells instead of scumtells. However, I believe this particular set-up to be broken.

I love towntells, and I use them far more than most people, since most people just say OMG WIFOM whenever they hear someone talk about towntells. I believe TDC did a town-tell when he proposed his plan, since there is no reason that scum would propose to lynch a random person.

Uhh, no. We play Mafia to have fun, last I checked.

[Crazy]

They would if that random person worked in their favor. Did you roll before or after he told you the plan? And also, didn't he just say person A, i.e top of the list? Just trying to see if I remember correctly.

I rolled after he said that plan.

As far as I can tell from that post, I'm almost positive that "A" is just a random variable and doesn't refer to a specific person.

But a win is much more satisfying when it's earned, not because someone broke the game with dice. I only like using dice when the odds are against me personally. It's a different sense of accomplishment when you make fate bow to you. This however is just a roll and we usually win. no fun at all. The chaos isn't there. So I'd rather win by finding the towniest.

Fair enough, I guess. Then that's why I'll advocate Malthusis' lynch.

Note that I have completed 5 games as town. I've lost 4 of them. The only one I one was Texas Justice, in which the setup was broken.

[Crazy]

Wait... Just check the lover chains... Uhh... YOU love slayer. So lynching slayer would you mean you would die, and I would be the last one standing.

Crap, I'm an idiot. I forgot that the chains will work backwards.

Unvote
Vote ClockworkRuse

Uhh, seriously? Saying "Hey, I am town, follow my orders!"?

I'm not leading the town. That's not my style.

And why are you so certain Forbiddan and I are scum?

ZS, I've never said a word against you. Why did you feel the need to make that connection?

[Crazy]

Also, guys, you may wish to read this:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8756

Nobody seemed to mind the fact that Fonz broke the game, except Sun Tzu. I mean, seriously, who would complain about a win?

[forbiddanlight]

Fair enough, I guess. Then that's why I'll advocate Malthusis' lynch.

Note that I have completed 5 games as town. I've lost 4 of them. The only one I one was Texas Justice, in which the setup was broken

That's why the whole town is to weigh in...I wasn't saying one of us pick. Consensus will raise our chances.

Crap, I'm an idiot. I forgot that the chains will work backwards.

Unvote
Vote ClockworkRuse

I'm assuming the first quote I quoted was sarcasm, or else you directly contradict yourself.

I'm not leading the town. That's not my style.

Yet you appear to be in the posts where you are pushing the dice on us.

Nobody seemed to mind the fact that Fonz broke the game, except Sun Tzu. I mean, seriously, who would complain about a win?

Well, I personally feel it's only fun if there was work done. Maybe I'm old school like that. But rolling dice to win the game with such a high margin of victory just feels dirty and undeserved.

I rolled after he said that plan.

As far as I can tell from that post, I'm almost positive that "A" is just a random variable and doesn't refer to a specific person.

Fair enough. I might have misread.

ZS, your post feels vaguely of buddying. I mean, it could be a null tell, especially given Crazy's actions thus far and that being the main point you agree with me on, but I don't want you starting to get complacent in me being town. You probably aren't yet, and I'd like to stave that off.

[TDC]

Not to get WIFOMy, but consider the fact that TDC came up with a "game-breaking plan" which actually does not work. To me, it seems like he came up with a plan that he knew did not work, but would look to people at first glance like it did work, in order to make himself seem townie.

So it was always crystal clear for you that we need any 9 votes and not 9

town

votes?

As far as I can tell from that post, I'm almost positive that "A" is just a random variable and doesn't refer to a specific person.

Yes, it was a variable. Though I was not thinking of using dice for that. More along the lines of "If we're reasonable sure that A and B are not scum together and B is the person that survives if A is lynched, try my plan on A".

[forbiddanlight]

So it was always crystal clear for you that we need any 9 votes and not 9 town votes?

It was for me. I'm still chalking it to misunderstanding.

Yes, it was a variable. Though I was not thinking of using dice for that. More along the lines of "If we're reasonable sure that A and B are not scum together and B is the person that survives if A is lynched, try my plan on A".

Then my mistake.

[ZombieSlayer54]

Wait... Just check the lover chains... Uhh... YOU love slayer. So lynching slayer would you mean you would die, and I would be the last one standing.

Crap, I'm an idiot. I forgot that the chains will work backwards.

Unvote
Vote ClockworkRuse

Uhh, seriously? Saying "Hey, I am town, follow my orders!"?

I'm not leading the town. That's not my style.

And why are you so certain Forbiddan and I are scum?

ZS, I've never said a word against you. Why did you feel the need to make that connection?

You say you are not leading the town. That does not mean you are not.

You may have never directly called me scum, but you have certainly implied it.

I'm assuming the first quote I quoted was sarcasm, or else you directly contradict yourself.

ZS, your post feels vaguely of buddying. I mean, it could be a null tell, especially given Crazy's actions thus far and that being the main point you agree with me on, but I don't want you starting to get complacent in me being town. You probably aren't yet, and I'd like to stave that off.

I agree with you. You seem pro-town to me. A person I deem anti-town is making illogical attacks on you. Therefore, I defend you.

Not to get WIFOMy, but consider the fact that TDC came up with a "game-breaking plan" which actually does not work. To me, it seems like he came up with a plan that he knew did not work, but would look to people at first glance like it did work, in order to make himself seem townie.

So it was always crystal clear for you that we need any 9 votes and not 9

town

votes?

Yes...? What are you getting at?

[forbiddanlight]

I agree with you. You seem pro-town to me. A person I deem anti-town is making illogical attacks on you. Therefore, I defend you.

Nyeh, it's fine. I tend to be self conscious when people agree. Like when I do an analysis there's always someone saying "Ah, I'll totally follow that summary and analysis"...I HATE that because it means they turned off their brains. So, nip in the bud and all that.

[Jex]

I'm confused, which way does the chain go? Does a vote on clockwork leave TDC standing or me?

[TDC]

Not to get WIFOMy, but consider the fact that TDC came up with a "game-breaking plan" which actually does not work. To me, it seems like he came up with a plan that he knew did not work, but would look to people at first glance like it did work, in order to make himself seem townie.

So it was always crystal clear for you that we need any 9 votes and not 9

town

votes?

Yes...? What are you getting at?

That it wasn't clear for me, mainly because of this:

You forgot it requires a

unanimous

vote, 9 votes means

every pro-town has to agree

. Something which very rarely happens.

[Max]

Tovarish has asked to be replaced

Please note this is a mafia experiment, this is the first in the series, in the future there will be roles added, this is my mini project.

[ZombieSlayer54]

I'm confused, which way does the chain go? Does a vote on clockwork leave TDC standing or me?

It leaves TDC standing.

[Crazy]

Actually, ZS, you're looking a lot more town to me than forbiddan.

[forbiddanlight]

Actually, ZS, you're looking a lot more town to me than forbiddan.

And why precisely do I look scummy? Because you are trying to break the game with dice and I want to play mafia? Geez...