mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[Bell]

As Titus said “Why me? Fry me”

yeah because the town response to being sussed for no reason is definitely to roll over and take it

Oversimplification tbh.
The I dunno why A50 think's I'm scum but here I'll claim feelings slightly off center to me.

I think it's because they're looking for reasons but in a way that doesn't feel like they care too much about the reasons and there's no emotional response to being in the poE pool, but more a curiosity about the accusation.

It's super nuanced and I can't quite articulate the issue I'm having with it.

But mountains, mole hills etc.

[Something_Smart]

I mean why me fry me is an oversimplification so massive as to be worse than useless. I would have no issues at all with a detailed case of why this particular instance of why me was scummy.

[Nero Cain]

you guys really feel like DS going ham when I accused him of bussing is town?

[Something_Smart]

"Don't forget how hard I defended the flipped scum" is not exactly up there in my list of common scum defenses, yes.

[MathBlade]

I mean why me fry me is an oversimplification so massive as to be worse than useless. I would have no issues at all with a detailed case of why this particular instance of why me was scummy.

Meh it was just a gut feeling. Can’t really articulate it. You and Titus is good enough to tell me my gut was probably wrong.

[MathBlade]

you guys really feel like DS going ham when I accused him of bussing is town?

What is “going ham”?

[Nero Cain]

guys, Tirus is gimmick caricature of a 2013 player. leave her alone.

[mastina]

It's likely that jjh is indeed ascetic, and if he is ascetic, there's a decent chance he doesn't claim it as scum, but a smaller chance he doesn't claim it as town. So mild preference for not him.

^For the record I agree with this, and would like to add that I also feel the way jjh handled his claim was town indicative, and also feel like setup spec wise, jjh's role is more likely to be town than scum.

[MathBlade]

guys, Tirus is gimmick caricature of a 2013 player. leave her alone.

You know you can say me right? I have already said and insulted my town game a lot already.

[Nero Cain]

I was actually ribbing Titus but ok....

[mastina]

It's that you're doing all that, while giving us little reason to believe that your motives are what you say they are.

We lynched scum D1 and the push on D2 was, while

wrong

(April flipped town), very very very obviously an

intent

to try and lynch a second scum--had April flipped scum, we'd have spearheaded the lynch of not one but TWO scum.

I feel that'd have been proof enough, yes? (You say that there's little reason to believe our motives are what we say they are, but we've said our motives are to lynch scum and we did so on D1 and tried to do so again on D2, albeit failing.)

Admittedly, April did not flip town, but the evidence that I really thought he would flip scum is pretty damn self-apparent.

[MathBlade]

It's that you're doing all that, while giving us little reason to believe that your motives are what you say they are.

We lynched scum D1 and the push on D2 was, while

wrong

(April flipped town), very very very obviously an

intent

to try and lynch a second scum--had April flipped scum, we'd have spearheaded the lynch of not one but TWO scum.

I feel that'd have been proof enough, yes? (You say that there's little reason to believe our motives are what we say they are, but we've said our motives are to lynch scum and we did so on D1 and tried to do so again on D2, albeit failing.)

Admittedly, April did not flip town, but the evidence that I really thought he would flip scum is pretty damn self-apparent.

I would say the emotion and the raw intensity of wanting her gone is proven. Whether you thought April was scum or just absolutely needed her gone for this “win con” is TBD.

[Something_Smart]

the push on D2 was, while wrong (April flipped town), very very very obviously an intent to try and lynch a second scum

I think it's within your wheelhouse to abuse the mechanical arguments like you did to deceptively push a mis-execution while claiming you're doing it out of an intent to kill scum.

There was really not as good a reason as you say to not out your reasoning, and if you had, one of your major points (that the neighborize is ninja and April couldn't have seen Titus act) would have been demolished.

[superbowl9]

the push on D2 was, while wrong (April flipped town), very very very obviously an intent to try and lynch a second scum

I think it's within your wheelhouse to abuse the mechanical arguments like you did to deceptively push a mis-execution while claiming you're doing it out of an intent to kill scum.

There was really not as good a reason as you say to not out your reasoning, and if you had, one of your major points (that the neighborize is ninja and April couldn't have seen Titus act) would have been demolished.

[MathBlade]

the push on D2 was, while wrong (April flipped town), very very very obviously an intent to try and lynch a second scum

I think it's within your wheelhouse to abuse the mechanical arguments like you did to deceptively push a mis-execution while claiming you're doing it out of an intent to kill scum.

There was really not as good a reason as you say to not out your reasoning, and if you had, one of your major points (that the neighborize is ninja and April couldn't have seen Titus act) would have been demolished.

You scare me sometimes you know that right?

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand either of those responses

[MathBlade]

I don't understand either of those responses

It scares me how similar we think mechanically. We’re almost brothers with our responses.

[Chemist1422]

So chemist, if you didn't think that tracker/md combo was possible in this game why were you not voting April?

i literally was

and then i moved off because i thought ddl slipped

and i didn't move back because i didn't know how close to majority we were

[Nero Cain]

ok

[Nero Cain]

just had to ask b/c a50 and mastina were going mad 4 ur flip when one of them pointed it out

[Nero Cain]

though there was a LONG gap inbetween u kinda calling him scum and u voting him.

[mastina]

You guys did the chess thing with the April execution. I predicted that the reasons were dumb, and when they were revealed today, lo and behold they were in fact dumb.

The reasons were not dumb. People keep going, "mastina thought April was scum, confbiasing the mechanical reasons to be stronger", OR, "the mechanical reasons were the only reason for suspecting April, and they were weak", but neither of those viewpoints is an accurate representation of the facts; it's simultaneously both and neither (but far more of the former than the latter, that is to say, while neither is accurate, the former is much closer to accurate than the latter).

I had a very very legitimate, reads-based, play-based, actual ingame no mechanics involved, good reason to scumread April and this was not something kept in the secret of the neighborhood; if you iso me, these reasons were on display on D2. Those reasons were not dumb. Wrong, but not dumb.

There were mechanical reasons for April to be scum. These mechanical reasons were things that of the members of the neighborhood, everyone aside from me said they were less damning than I thought they were. They were right, the reasons were in fact less damning than I thought they were, because April was town, not scum.

But I cased April as scum based on believing FL had TMI, defended scum D1, was trying to fight back on D2 while knowing if he didn't scum would lose from the townbloc due to the 3p, and

then

the mechanical reasons

on top

of that. That he was trying to tailor his claim to what he thought was evidence in the setup supporting that as a fakeclaim, a low-risk high-reward claim that he thought would fit while not actually fitting.

I was wrong, but that doesn't mean the reasons were dumb. They were wrong. Not dumb. I will take full blame for being wrong; it was a fuckup on my side for pushing it so hard while being wrong--but it was not for dumb reasons. It was for reasonable reasons that were incorrect. A mistake, but not from idiocy. No less of a mistake, it was still one, a rather bad one, but it was not a moronic mistake, it was a mistaken-mistake.

[MathBlade]

You guys did the chess thing with the April execution. I predicted that the reasons were dumb, and when they were revealed today, lo and behold they were in fact dumb.

The reasons were not dumb. People keep going, "mastina thought April was scum, confbiasing the mechanical reasons to be stronger", OR, "the mechanical reasons were the only reason for suspecting April, and they were weak", but neither of those viewpoints is an accurate representation of the facts; it's simultaneously both and neither (but far more of the former than the latter, that is to say, while neither is accurate, the former is much closer to accurate than the latter).

I had a very very legitimate, reads-based, play-based, actual ingame no mechanics involved, good reason to scumread April and this was not something kept in the secret of the neighborhood; if you iso me, these reasons were on display on D2. Those reasons were not dumb. Wrong, but not dumb.

There were mechanical reasons for April to be scum. These mechanical reasons were things that of the members of the neighborhood, everyone aside from me said they were less damning than I thought they were. They were right, the reasons were in fact less damning than I thought they were, because April was town, not scum.

But I cased April as scum based on believing FL had TMI, defended scum D1, was trying to fight back on D2 while knowing if he didn't scum would lose from the townbloc due to the 3p, and

then

the mechanical reasons

on top

of that. That he was trying to tailor his claim to what he thought was evidence in the setup supporting that as a fakeclaim, a low-risk high-reward claim that he thought would fit while not actually fitting.

I was wrong, but that doesn't mean the reasons were dumb. They were wrong. Not dumb. I will take full blame for being wrong; it was a fuckup on my side for pushing it so hard while being wrong--but it was not for dumb reasons. It was for reasonable reasons that were incorrect. A mistake, but not from idiocy. No less of a mistake, it was still one, a rather bad one, but it was not a moronic mistake, it was a mistaken-mistake.

Can we agree to disagree and move on? At minimum conf bias territory.

I fail to see how this is protown.

[Nero Cain]

<3 4 mastina

[mastina]

scum HAVE to break the hood up. They know they can't hunt outside of the hood b/c any lynches outside of the hood just result in them being POEd.

how can this be true? wouldn't the game be absurdly townsided if this were the case?

The thing is.

I feel like the game was designed, by the moderator, with the expectation that both three-man third parties would not trust each other and that the town wouldn't trust both of them, that the town would trust either neither of them or only one of them.

If the game was designed where the town wouldn't trust both 3-man 3ps as town, and that the 3ps wouldn't trust each other, then the setup makes a lot of sense. That distrust in one another means that no massive townbloc forms and that the scum cannot be easily poe'd.

But

with

the mutual trust going on, with all six of the 3ps trusting each other to be basically conftown, and the town at large largely trusting them to be conftown...it was probably not designed to happen that way, but with it having happened that way, scum are in a position where they can be easily POE'd.

Thus, it is within scum's best interest to try literally every tactic to break up the townbloc, to make the 6+ conftown try to think of each other not as conftown, to regain suspicion on them. If scum succeeded at this, then poe wouldn't condemn them; the setup would have less information confirmed, the scum could hide much easier.

Which is why that sort of paranoia is incredibly antitown and pro-scum.

I happen to be of the opinion that of the players doing it, the only one actually scum is DDL.
That you, Mathblade, Pickaxe Pete, and DiamondSentinel, in spite of participating in this paranoia-behavior, are all town.

But the suspicion on your slots for shading people that should be treated as conftown is understandable because

shading the people that should be treated as conftown is

literally the only way scum can win this game

.