Newbie 2037 - Game Over

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm confused here. You're still scumreading him but you unvoted? I dont think im going to understand this, but I dont think this on its own is AI.

If I were to hazard a guess, it would be that perhaps he wasn't 100% sure on his scum read (and let's be honest, on day 1, without any flips and NA to go off, who is?) and wanted more information to come to light?

What changed for you between 258/278 and 281?

Seems to me that he just had a rethink of 277 in 279 and thought it was more suspicious than Norfolks posts, and post 280 could've potentially been the conclusive post from Norfolk he was waiting for?

I could be wrong, but that's the way I read it

Why are you answering a question that wasn't for you?

[Facebones]

Not answering per se as much as offering my thoughts on the matter

[Facebones]

Apologies for interrupting your probing of Rockhopper, please continue

[Norfolk Boy1]

We're starting to run out of time.

Is someone declaring intent or has it become clearer what's happening and another wagon is being pursued?

[Billy Pilgrim]

We're starting to run out of time.

Is someone declaring intent or has it become clearer what's happening and another wagon is being pursued?

Man this cryptic stuff is not helping me. If youre gonna case Italiano do it. Because right now, I have negative incentive to move off of you. I think your slot needs to be resolved today. Because its negative utility for us to leave you as a question mark.

[Norfolk Boy1]

Okay, let me explain.

Firstly, i'm not scum. I'm Town Tracker. I wasn't subtle in crumbing it either. If you notice, I don't really say that i'm thinking things, I say i'm seeing them:

I don't

see

an issue with putting him at E-2 (I played a game here where someone was E-2 within 20 posts) but be firm with it.

I can't

see

there being a need for super secret code within a game.

Don't be weak.

See

it through - name a name.

Post 190 supplements this, when I confirmed that I was

looking

for specific things and post 218 when I compliment Dunnstral on recognising that i'm keep tabs (tracking) everything.

I've used a slightly more obsure crumb:

Haha, I was the

runner up

in that game.

Runner, as in

track

and field.

I've also used obvious crumbs:

I didn't think it was alignment related, but as you say, it stood out. I like it as a posting style; very clean and

easy to follow.

And of course, the blatent crumb:

I like Billy P.

He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is

well worth noting down.

So, onto who is actually scum:

My first scum read was based on a scumslip I saw. However, it's dawned on me that it could be a townslip and i'm not willing to potentially expose the second power role.

At the time I was so sure of my initial read. That's why I moved onto looking for scum 2. There is no doubt that scum is on my wagon at that point, that's why I pressured Rockhopper, Dunnstral and Italiano.

Rockhopper has made some pro town moves and appears to have got where i'm coming from. Dunnstral is just a lurker and a little lazy, so that leaves Italiano.

RQS was a great way for scum to get peoples townreads and scumtells in the open, all whilst giving off an air of scumhunting and giving him a ready made reason to scumread those that didn't comply.

He was then fixed on Billy, voting for him, casing him and saying he was likely to vote for him come days end. Then, just because a mini wagon formed on me, he jumped on it with no reason of his own and has tunnelled ever since, even declaring intent when there was loads of time left.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Ok, im not counter-claiming but this is a bit suspect. If you're a tracker you should CC. Cops and masons should also CC. Jailkeeper, doctor, friendly neighbor all keep quiet.

If anyone answers this for him I'm gonna lose my shit. Norfolk why did you post 262?

What did you mean by that/hope to accomplish there?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Also, now im worried about a quickhammer. UNVOTE:

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, all this is strange for me.

Spoiler:

Okay, let me explain.

Firstly, i'm not scum. I'm Town Tracker. I wasn't subtle in crumbing it either. If you notice, I don't really say that i'm thinking things, I say i'm seeing them:

I don't

see

an issue with putting him at E-2 (I played a game here where someone was E-2 within 20 posts) but be firm with it.

I can't

see

there being a need for super secret code within a game.

Don't be weak.

See

it through - name a name.

Post 190 supplements this, when I confirmed that I was

looking

for specific things and post 218 when I compliment Dunnstral on recognising that i'm keep tabs (tracking) everything.

I've used a slightly more obsure crumb:

Haha, I was the

runner up

in that game.

Runner, as in

track

and field.

I've also used obvious crumbs:

I didn't think it was alignment related, but as you say, it stood out. I like it as a posting style; very clean and

easy to follow.

And of course, the blatent crumb:

I like Billy P.

He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is

well worth noting down.

I’m not sure if I believe this. I think you’re really stretching it with all the “crumbs”. I’m sure everyone can go through their posts and highlight words and say they’re crumbing a role.

[ItalianoVD]

My first scum read was based on a scumslip I saw. However, it's dawned on me that it could be a townslip and i'm not willing to potentially expose the second power role.

At the time I was so sure of my initial read. That's why I moved onto looking for scum 2.

And how were we supposed to know this? You never said anything about it. This is what happens when you are vague and don’t tell us what’s on your mind.

There is no doubt that scum is on my wagon at that point, that's why I pressured Rockhopper, Dunnstral and Italiano.

Interesting that you only pressure people who are voting for/pressuring you. There’s other people in this game and I haven’t really seen you interact with them.

RQS was a great way for scum to get peoples townreads and scumtells in the open, all whilst giving off an air of scumhunting and giving him a ready made reason to scumread those that didn't comply.

I’ve already explained the point of RQS and why I did it.

He was then fixed on Billy, voting for him, casing him and saying he was likely to vote for him come days end.

That’s true, but as you know in this game things change and I felt you were more scummy than Billy. What I said about bakslash in 174 rings true for everyone.

Then, just because a mini wagon formed on me, he jumped on it with no reason of his own and has tunnelled ever since, even declaring intent when there was loads of time left.

No, I jumped on the wagon because I think you’re scum and wanted to get you eliminated.

[ItalianoVD]

Ok, im not counter-claiming but this is a bit suspect. If you're a tracker you should CC. Cops and masons should also CC. Jailkeeper, doctor, friendly neighbor all keep quiet.

Eh I don’t know if the cop or masons should fully claim their role (for obvious reasons), but just confirm that Norfolk is lying or not.

[Rockhopper]

UNVOTE:

Why?

Rockhopper - you unvoted but didn't remote. Whats your read of Norfolk and who is your top scumread?

I still scumread Norfolk, just didn't want the Day to end prematurely.

I like Billy P. He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is well worth noting down.

You did a good job not making your scumpartner obvious :p
But give me more time to analyze before I declare intent to hammer.

Spoiler:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5

I'm confused here. You're still scumreading him but you unvoted? I dont think im going to understand this, but I dont think this on its own is AI.

Spoiler:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6

Nvm, Norfolk is prolly town.
VOTE: MiniMegaByte

What changed for you between 258/278 and 281?

I wanted to take a look at the slot again before an elimination.
His behaviour after the wagon was formed struck me as town, I can elaborate on this if needed.

If there's no cc, I feel confident about a Mini elimination. What are all of your reads on her?

Spoiler:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4

[Facebones]

My read on Mini at this stage is null, however I had a reread with scum Italiano in mind. The way he swayed from Bakslash to Billy and then seemed to settle on Norfolk after reading Dunnstral's justification seems suspicious. After that point he's been very keen to get Norfolk out. Exuberant townie or scum jumping on what he perceives to be the easiest wagon? My moneys on the latter.

My ghost vote is on Norfolk Boy right now, but I don’t wanna put him at E-1 yet in case there’s a quickhammer.

Intent to hammer.

All this unvoting is bothersome. Why do it? Especially with no explanation. Let’s put him back at E-2.

VOTE: Norfolk Boy1

In post 264, Facebones wrote:
Post 187 didn't strike me as something scum Norfolk would do tbh, although

he could be trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Is this what a WIFOM is?

If that’s how you feel, like if that’s in your mind then you don’t let him wiggle out of it by backing off.

The first part of that sentence was how I felt- I didn't get scummy vibes from this post. I was saying there was a chance of him pulling the wool over our eyes, but I was doubtful of it. Pocketing attempt noted


Something seems a bit strange

Vote: ItalianoVD

[Facebones]

If anyone answers this for him I'm gonna lose my shit. Norfolk why did you post 262?

Heaven forbid that should ever happen! We won't like Billy when he's angry

[Norfolk Boy1]

.

If anyone answers this for him I'm gonna lose my shit. Norfolk why did you post 262?

What did you mean by that/hope to accomplish there?

If i'm eliminated, there's so much to work with. That's why I didn't mind being eliminated.

However, I held out hope that there would be a realisation that I was town and my wagon would dissipate without my having to claim.

I asked for sensibleness and an extra day because I hoped that I wouldn't have to claim, but if I did, we had enough time for an educated elimination.

[Billy Pilgrim]

UNVOTE:

Why?

Rockhopper - you unvoted but didn't remote. Whats your read of Norfolk and who is your top scumread?

I still scumread Norfolk, just didn't want the Day to end prematurely.

I like Billy P. He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is well worth noting down.

You did a good job not making your scumpartner obvious :p
But give me more time to analyze before I declare intent to hammer.

Spoiler:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5

I'm confused here. You're still scumreading him but you unvoted? I dont think im going to understand this, but I dont think this on its own is AI.

Spoiler:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6

Nvm, Norfolk is prolly town.
VOTE: MiniMegaByte

What changed for you between 258/278 and 281?

I wanted to take a look at the slot again before an elimination.
His behaviour after the wagon was formed struck me as town, I can elaborate on this if needed.

If there's no cc, I feel confident about a Mini elimination. What are all of your reads on her?

Spoiler:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4

Please explain what you thought was townie for Norfolk post wagon.

Can you case mini? Thats been a pretty low activity slot, so im co fised about your confidence. Im not townreading her though.

[Billy Pilgrim]

.

If anyone answers this for him I'm gonna lose my shit. Norfolk why did you post 262?

What did you mean by that/hope to accomplish there?

If i'm eliminated, there's so much to work with. That's why I didn't mind being eliminated.

However, I held out hope that there would be a realisation that I was town and my wagon would dissipate without my having to claim.

I asked for sensibleness and an extra day because I hoped that I wouldn't have to claim, but if I did, we had enough time for an educated elimination.

So you were hoping the wagon was going to go elsewhere on its own?

[Norfolk Boy1]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

You saying you're happy being the D1 elim certainly didn't soft pr to me. If anything, it was a VT soft which is what I was talking about when I said it was negative utility for us to move off of you.

I dont think I buy it. This isn't a town pr play to basically soft vt and then to recalibrate. A town pr doesn't say they're comfortable being the D1 elim. This was a scum gambit that didn't work and so you rethought it. I mean you set us up to be scattering at EoD. You said you're comfortable being the elim, but to wait until 24 hours before forcing a claim. You knew you gonna claim a pr so it was going to be a last minute redirected wagon that gives scum maximum control. And you tried to push it to Italiano who I think is town here which also fits with a scum agenda.

VOTE: Norfolk

I dont buy the claim. I think this is survivalist.

[MiniMegabyte]

I am going to catch up as soon as I can. I have just woken up and have to go to hospital today

[Billy Pilgrim]

Folks we're 15 hours from deadline and we have a wagon with a claim and theres been no movement since the last vote count. I unvoted and then revoted. We got 4 votes on Norfolk with a claim, 2 votes on Dunn then two single.vote wagons and I domt think padwags posted in a while.

[Billy Pilgrim]

We got 3 people in prod range. Look, if people don't play, we can't win this. Scum thrive in games where people don't play. We need to consolidate these votes on a wagon. Right now, I know Norfolk claimed, but im not sold which i explained above. But we gotta do something here.

[Micc]

Votecount 1.07

Norfolk Boy1 (4) -

Dunnstral, ItalianoVD, MiniMegabyte, Billy Pilgrim

ItalianoVD (2) -

Norfolk Boy1, Facebones

Dunnstral (1) -

Bakslash

MiniMegabyte (1) -

Rockhopper

Not Voting (1) -

padwag

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is paused at 13 hours.

Prodding Bakslash, padwag and Dunnstral.

Going to pause the deadline since these prods are so long overdue.

[Dunnstral]

Folks we're 15 hours from deadline and we have a wagon with a claim and theres been no movement since the last vote count. I unvoted and then revoted. We got 4 votes on Norfolk with a claim, 2 votes on Dunn then two single.vote wagons and I domt think padwags posted in a while.

Would you rather elim Norfolk Boy1 or ItalianoVD?

[ItalianoVD]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

Come on. No one here are mind readers. You gotta do better than this. Again your tracker claim is a role that can’t be confirmed unless there is a flip because it’s easy to fake missed tracks and just say you tracked who was night-killed. Your plea didn’t seem like you wanted to stay alive to find scum, but to simply stay alive.

My read on Mini at this stage is null, however I had a reread with scum Italiano in mind. The way he swayed from Bakslash to Billy and then seemed to settle on Norfolk after reading Dunnstral's justification seems suspicious. After that point he's been very keen to get Norfolk out. Exuberant townie or scum jumping on what he perceives to be the easiest wagon? My moneys on the latter.

Well you’re gonna go broke.

The first part of that sentence was how I felt- I didn't get scummy vibes from this post. I was saying there was a chance of him pulling the wool over our eyes, but I was doubtful of it. Pocketing attempt noted


Something seems a bit strange

Vote: ItalianoVD

No I don’t think you were doubtful of it. You said “

although he could be trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Is this what a WIFOM is?

” That last part: is this what a WIFOM is makes me think you were doubting your new townread on Norfolk and was keeping your read of him open, which is why I said what I said to you. Now you think something seems a bit strange? I have my eye on you now because I don’t think your casing is being done in good faith and your defense of Norfolk is apparent.

And pocketing? What do you mean by that? And who are you talking about?