Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[JacksonVirgo]

not sure if i should believe the junior detective act here

Cool story, don't care about this fencesitting

[JacksonVirgo]

Still, my logic holds.

Wait what’s the motivation to lie then?

Because when called out originally, it was them called scummy for choosing that number. If they said it was to get a PR, they would be in a worse position.

Don't care that it was originally a joke, it wasn't obvious that it was.

[skitter30]

The thing about that is that you said in when you unvoted that Lilith was still a target for you.

Since you're being TR by many in the game, with you saying that, I think the chances scum jump off the wagon that quick are less likely, considering a Lilith lynch still looks like it's still potentially on the cards.

I worded this in a dumb way but it's late and I don't know how to make it better LOL

So the people still on wagon are the way to go then! Looks like my dbg vote was a good one lol

[Uncrowned]

Lilith I was sheeping though (although her posts definitely had a scummy element to them imo) but I still think Daves or even DGB (Peta's analysis of the catchup was v convincing) are more likely to be scum, I guess?

I say that because I feel like Lilith has had this sort of pressure put on her that could make even townies struggle to post well under scrutiny, whereas the latter two haven't had much pressure on them this game but have still displayed scummy behaviors. Unless your experience with town!lilith suggests she deals with that type of pressure really well?

I'm coming around to the possibility that Hoopla isn't scum considering we seem to share similar opinions on Dave/DGB and her commentary on the wagon was a conclusion I believe town would naturally come to

[Uncrowned]

The thing about that is that you said in when you unvoted that Lilith was still a target for you.

Since you're being TR by many in the game, with you saying that, I think the chances scum jump off the wagon that quick are less likely, considering a Lilith lynch still looks like it's still potentially on the cards.

I worded this in a dumb way but it's late and I don't know how to make it better LOL

So the people still on wagon are the way to go then! Looks like my dbg vote was a good one lol

that's assuming my logic makes sense which I *think* it does

Like theoretically yeah people could see you jump off (and you're the strongest influence on that wagon) and be like "ok let's test the waters elsewhere" BUT as you said i'm TRing most of those who got off it and I think you left the door open enough on her still being a lynch candidate for scum to feel comfortable staying put

[the worst]

vote count 1.25

DrippingGoofball (3)

: lilith2013, skitter30, petapan

Hoopla (3)

: TheGoldenParadox, Infinity 324, Dunnstral

lilith2013 (2)

: DrippingGoofball, davesaz

Pine (2)

: PenguinPower, Uncrowned

petapan (1)

: JacksonVirgo

davesaz (1)

: Hoopla

Not voting

: Something_Smart, Pine

Deadline: (expired on 2020-11-02 21:15:00)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

mod notes

:
- prodding pine
- skitter30 v/la Fridays & Saturdays.
- quack

[Something_Smart]

As I was going back through these, this is exactly what I was thinking.

Idk if this is just a feature of your playstyle S_S but the fact you aren't taking stances on these slots which are behaving in a way which I would say is pretty polarizing is weird to say the least

...I don't think that's what skitter was getting at there. I thought she was saying that I might have been scum intentionally drawing a faulty comparison to protect lilith. (Which isn't something I would do; I wouldn't lie about something that easily verifiable.)

Just because slots are polarizing doesn't mean I have to be polarized, if you get my drift? And I think slowness to form reads is a virtue because it keeps me from jumping to conclusions and becoming confbiased; but regardless, it's a playstyle trait, not an alignment-indicative one.

[skitter30]

This will be an intriguing vc later

[Something_Smart]

There seems to be a lot of "this could reasonably come from a town perspective" which is something we were frowning upon when Infinity was doing it earlier.

Can you link where this happened with Infinity? (Not that I doubt it did, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same event.)

[Something_Smart]

Draft order alone isn't enough of a towncase for a player to make me not want to lynch them.

This misses the point. It's not that high draft order makes someone townier-- ask Hoopla and she'll show you stats that illustrate the opposite-- it's that they are comparatively more valuable to town, and therefore riskier to execute. In some cases, they will be actively valuable to town even if scum, for instance if they are a vig we can leash or an investigative that produces accurate results.

[Uncrowned]

Well yes but people aren't making that argument, they're just outright refusing or being adamant about not lynching those slots when I'd rather just take the risk if my instincts tell me that persons scum, you get me?

[Uncrowned]

There seems to be a lot of "this could reasonably come from a town perspective" which is something we were frowning upon when Infinity was doing it earlier.

Can you link where this happened with Infinity? (Not that I doubt it did, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same event.)

will look for this now

[Uncrowned]

There were a bunch of posts where I was like “ok, I don’t agree that this post makes someone more towny/scummy, but I see how someone could think that”.

I mean how much does that really count for? If you can see town-DGB thinking something, surely scum-DGB can see town-DGB thinking it?

In fact I think "these thoughts sound like things a townie could reasonably believe" is pretty much what scum shoot for in making fake reads.

I believe this is what I was referencing

[Uncrowned]

I actually wasn't aware you were the one that said it tbh I thought Penguin did but yeah

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm really genuinely sorry I've been lackluster this game. Just been feeling kinda shit. I promise I'll give this game a relook with a different lense, or at least I'll try my best. I feel kinda shitty, I was so hyped to play with uncrowned but then I just went ugh and probably dissapointed you dude :c

[Uncrowned]

NOOO don't stress! I still love playing with you

hope everything is okay. just chill and play whenever you want to, not because you feel like you have to <3

[PenguinPower]

but you have to </3

[Uncrowned]

As I was going back through these, this is exactly what I was thinking.

Idk if this is just a feature of your playstyle S_S but the fact you aren't taking stances on these slots which are behaving in a way which I would say is pretty polarizing is weird to say the least

...I don't think that's what skitter was getting at there. I thought she was saying that I might have been scum intentionally drawing a faulty comparison to protect lilith. (Which isn't something I would do; I wouldn't lie about something that easily verifiable.)

Just because slots are polarizing doesn't mean I have to be polarized, if you get my drift? And I think slowness to form reads is a virtue because it keeps me from jumping to conclusions and becoming confbiased; but regardless, it's a playstyle trait, not an alignment-indicative one.

I looked back at this quote and realized my point is entirely unrelated lmao you are correct I think that's what she was getting at too

As for your second point... sure, I guess, if you feel like you're a person susceptible to confirmation bias but to me it just seems a bit tooooooo uncertain

Like I took a pretty hard stance on Hoopla not long ago at all and I'm already starting to back off it a bit. I don't think it's wrong to take stances on things. I've probably beaten this idea to death already but im a pretty big believer in townies having ever-changing mindsets and I think that's something a lot of scum are afraid to replicate because it'll lead to them having to explain and that's when mistakes are made

[Uncrowned]

but you have to </3

WE WERENT SUPPOSED TO TELL THEM THAT PENGUIN GODDAMNIT

[JacksonVirgo]

Don't worry I will post in the morning, sorry again dudes I'm not always like this

[Something_Smart]

I believe this is what I was referencing

I think you might have misunderstood 745? I wasn't calling out Infinity, I was just saying I disagreed with his read.

[lilith2013]

Spoiler:

Why?

I find scum more likely to say "I may be bad but not scum" since people don't like to admit they're wrong. "feels a little off" is way down in confidence from where you were just a second ago too.

This reasoning still applies, I think tgp is trying to get read as "bad town"

penguin you can call my takes bad but calling me scum for them is a terrible take yourself

This is not quite "I may be bad but I'm not scum" but it's close enough. "Feels a little off" is something you'd use to describe a post from someone you were otherwise townreading, not a hard scumread usually.

Jackson why are you focusing on NAI stuff so much, this is literally just about theory.

Jackson why are you focusing on NAI stuff so much, this is literally just about theory.

I don't see it as nai but if you want to explain why that'd be neat

Like, s_s made a post about his opinion on mafia in general (i.e., that good reads are hard to get as town or fake as scum). Do you think he could be lying?

@lilith these felt like a townie approach to me ^

I can see it with the last two. what about the first two posts is towny?

I think I’m mostly pinged by the timing of his vote, at the height of my wagon, in response to posts that I think I’d make as either alignment - like these are all discussions we’ve had before and I’ve made probably very similar posts in multiple games (me vs SS, me vs you) and it doesn’t help me to lie there because if I’m scum and you’re town and you know I’m faking the conversation then I’m easy to catch. (this made sense in my head, sorry)

[Something_Smart]

Though, there is a difference between what he did and what I did-- he tried to say that DGB was towny because he could imagine her posts as coming from town, whereas I was just saying that lilith isn't scummy because I can imagine her posts as coming from town.

[lilith2013]

A lot of people just hopped off of Lilith. From l-1 to l-5

this is alarming to me.

when a wagon collapses for no apparent reason, it's usually because it was artificially inflated (ie; scum driven), which implies lilith is town. skitter was the only person who put in real effort for her lilith vote. everyone else seemed to be riding on her coattails.

who's scum?

i think DGB/davesaz was the tipping point and most suspect. i probably prefer davesaz over DGB, if only because DGB is doubled up with pine.

VOTE: davesaz

Why wouldn’t you vote DGB just because she’s doubled up? Why does that preclude her from being scum, unless you’re scumreading Pine and think that scum wouldn’t be doubled together?

[Uncrowned]

I believe this is what I was referencing

I think you might have misunderstood 745? I wasn't calling out Infinity, I was just saying I disagreed with his read.

well yeah but you making similar points when you disagreed with someone else for it is contradictory, no?