Newbie 2037 - Game Over

[Rockhopper]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

You saying you're happy being the D1 elim certainly didn't soft pr to me. If anything, it was a VT soft which is what I was talking about when I said it was negative utility for us to move off of you.

I dont think I buy it. This isn't a town pr play to basically soft vt and then to recalibrate. A town pr doesn't say they're comfortable being the D1 elim. This was a scum gambit that didn't work and so you rethought it. I mean you set us up to be scattering at EoD. You said you're comfortable being the elim, but to wait until 24 hours before forcing a claim. You knew you gonna claim a pr so it was going to be a last minute redirected wagon that gives scum maximum control. And you tried to push it to Italiano who I think is town here which also fits with a scum agenda.

VOTE: Norfolk

I dont buy the claim. I think this is survivalist.

I may be wrong but isn't it best to eliminate somewhere else if there's no counterclaim? This is a convincing case though.

Spoiler: Norfolk

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

I don’t partner hunt, but you can tell

us

.

Don't be weak. See it through - name a name.

It’s not weak. I don’t partner hunt.

Town don't dodge questions and if you're town, you need to find 2 scum.

So, go on - who are you currently reading for scum role 2?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

2 of 3 have posted since this and the other is Dunnstral who is a part timer.

Somebody must be bold enough to share their latest reads on who is scum 2 if i'm scum 1, even if it's a 'gut read'.

Also, I have no problem with being eliminated, but lets be sensible and give it another calendar day or 2 before we go through the E1 process.

I like Billy P. He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is well worth noting down.

Simply put, his behaviour here is quite different from that in his previous scum games. I feel like challenging the voters with such confidence to name the second scum is genuine town frustration since this was neither his reaction to his wagons in those games nor a method he implemented to scumhunt as scum. There's also a difference in the level of analysis which could probably be a result of rolling town for the first time.

I fully agree with your case on his claim and I'll prolly vote for him if there's a cc, but this was my read when I unvoted.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Folks we're 15 hours from deadline and we have a wagon with a claim and theres been no movement since the last vote count. I unvoted and then revoted. We got 4 votes on Norfolk with a claim, 2 votes on Dunn then two single.vote wagons and I domt think padwags posted in a while.

Would you rather elim Norfolk Boy1 or ItalianoVD?

I thought 318 made it clear. Im townreading Italiano so I'd rather elim Norfolk. That claim feels fake to me.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

You saying you're happy being the D1 elim certainly didn't soft pr to me. If anything, it was a VT soft which is what I was talking about when I said it was negative utility for us to move off of you.

I dont think I buy it. This isn't a town pr play to basically soft vt and then to recalibrate. A town pr doesn't say they're comfortable being the D1 elim. This was a scum gambit that didn't work and so you rethought it. I mean you set us up to be scattering at EoD. You said you're comfortable being the elim, but to wait until 24 hours before forcing a claim. You knew you gonna claim a pr so it was going to be a last minute redirected wagon that gives scum maximum control. And you tried to push it to Italiano who I think is town here which also fits with a scum agenda.

VOTE: Norfolk

I dont buy the claim. I think this is survivalist.

I may be wrong but isn't it best to eliminate somewhere else if there's no counterclaim? This is a convincing case though.

Spoiler: Norfolk

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

I don’t partner hunt, but you can tell

us

.

Don't be weak. See it through - name a name.

It’s not weak. I don’t partner hunt.

Town don't dodge questions and if you're town, you need to find 2 scum.

So, go on - who are you currently reading for scum role 2?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

2 of 3 have posted since this and the other is Dunnstral who is a part timer.

Somebody must be bold enough to share their latest reads on who is scum 2 if i'm scum 1, even if it's a 'gut read'.

Also, I have no problem with being eliminated, but lets be sensible and give it another calendar day or 2 before we go through the E1 process.

I like Billy P. He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is well worth noting down.

Simply put, his behaviour here is quite different from that in his previous scum games. I feel like challenging the voters with such confidence to name the second scum is genuine town frustration since this was neither his reaction to his wagons in those games nor a method he implemented to scumhunt as scum. There's also a difference in the level of analysis which could probably be a result of rolling town for the first time.

I fully agree with your case on his claim and I'll prolly vote for him if there's a cc, but this was my read when I unvoted.

This thought isn't bad, but its not completely accurate. There is room to fakeclaim in these games. If you remember, I described a situation where both Dunn and George Bailey had fakeclaimed on D2. It pseudo-cleared Dunn after Bailey flipped. A lack of a CC, which isn't even 100 percent reliable at the moment because 2 players haven't posted since the claim, doesn't mean he's actually the tracker. It would mean that theres no other tracker or that any other impossible roles to exist with tracker (mason, cop) aren't in the game.

There are 2 setups where tracker would be a safe claim before a flip. B2 and C2. B2 Because the Friendly Neighbor and the jailkeep both exist with a tracker in other setups, and wouldn't know about the existence of the other yet. And C2 because the jailkeep exists with a tracker so can't CC and theres no other PR.

So a lack of CC doesn't confirm him as town, a CC would basically lock him scum to me, but it doesn't work the other way around.

[Bakslash]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

You saying you're happy being the D1 elim certainly didn't soft pr to me. If anything, it was a VT soft which is what I was talking about when I said it was negative utility for us to move off of you.

I dont think I buy it. This isn't a town pr play to basically soft vt and then to recalibrate. A town pr doesn't say they're comfortable being the D1 elim. This was a scum gambit that didn't work and so you rethought it. I mean you set us up to be scattering at EoD. You said you're comfortable being the elim, but to wait until 24 hours before forcing a claim. You knew you gonna claim a pr so it was going to be a last minute redirected wagon that gives scum maximum control. And you tried to push it to Italiano who I think is town here which also fits with a scum agenda.

VOTE: Norfolk

I dont buy the claim. I think this is survivalist.

I may be wrong but isn't it best to eliminate somewhere else if there's no counterclaim? This is a convincing case though.

Spoiler: Norfolk

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

I don’t partner hunt, but you can tell

us

.

Don't be weak. See it through - name a name.

It’s not weak. I don’t partner hunt.

Town don't dodge questions and if you're town, you need to find 2 scum.

So, go on - who are you currently reading for scum role 2?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

2 of 3 have posted since this and the other is Dunnstral who is a part timer.

Somebody must be bold enough to share their latest reads on who is scum 2 if i'm scum 1, even if it's a 'gut read'.

Also, I have no problem with being eliminated, but lets be sensible and give it another calendar day or 2 before we go through the E1 process.

I like Billy P. He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is well worth noting down.

Simply put, his behaviour here is quite different from that in his previous scum games. I feel like challenging the voters with such confidence to name the second scum is genuine town frustration since this was neither his reaction to his wagons in those games nor a method he implemented to scumhunt as scum. There's also a difference in the level of analysis which could probably be a result of rolling town for the first time.

I fully agree with your case on his claim and I'll prolly vote for him if there's a cc, but this was my read when I unvoted.

I think I agree with what your saying

[Billy Pilgrim]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

You saying you're happy being the D1 elim certainly didn't soft pr to me. If anything, it was a VT soft which is what I was talking about when I said it was negative utility for us to move off of you.

I dont think I buy it. This isn't a town pr play to basically soft vt and then to recalibrate. A town pr doesn't say they're comfortable being the D1 elim. This was a scum gambit that didn't work and so you rethought it. I mean you set us up to be scattering at EoD. You said you're comfortable being the elim, but to wait until 24 hours before forcing a claim. You knew you gonna claim a pr so it was going to be a last minute redirected wagon that gives scum maximum control. And you tried to push it to Italiano who I think is town here which also fits with a scum agenda.

VOTE: Norfolk

I dont buy the claim. I think this is survivalist.

I may be wrong but isn't it best to eliminate somewhere else if there's no counterclaim? This is a convincing case though.

Spoiler: Norfolk

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

I don’t partner hunt, but you can tell

us

.

Don't be weak. See it through - name a name.

It’s not weak. I don’t partner hunt.

Town don't dodge questions and if you're town, you need to find 2 scum.

So, go on - who are you currently reading for scum role 2?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

2 of 3 have posted since this and the other is Dunnstral who is a part timer.

Somebody must be bold enough to share their latest reads on who is scum 2 if i'm scum 1, even if it's a 'gut read'.

Also, I have no problem with being eliminated, but lets be sensible and give it another calendar day or 2 before we go through the E1 process.

I like Billy P. He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is well worth noting down.

Simply put, his behaviour here is quite different from that in his previous scum games. I feel like challenging the voters with such confidence to name the second scum is genuine town frustration since this was neither his reaction to his wagons in those games nor a method he implemented to scumhunt as scum. There's also a difference in the level of analysis which could probably be a result of rolling town for the first time.

I fully agree with your case on his claim and I'll prolly vote for him if there's a cc, but this was my read when I unvoted.

I think I agree with what your saying

Are you saying you agree with what Rockhopper is saying or what I'm saying? And we don't have much time, who do you want to jettison?

[Facebones]

No I don’t think you were doubtful of it. You said “although he could be trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Is this what a WIFOM is?” That last part: is this what a WIFOM is makes me think you were doubting your new townread on Norfolk and was keeping your read of him open, which is why I said what I said to you. Now you think something seems a bit strange? I have my eye on you now because I don’t think your casing is being done in good faith and your defense of Norfolk is apparent.

And pocketing? What do you mean by that? And who are you talking about?

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted. At the time I was ~70% sure it was a townie post, but still willing to hear the opposing side of the argument. Don't get me wrong, there is potential it was WIFOM. I was willing to sit down and have a discussion with someone, listening to their reasoning behind it and their POV. Instead all I got "if you think he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes, don't you let him wiggle out of it" which didn't really clear up anything, and felt like you were trying to guide me (arguably the least experienced player here) onto hopping onto the Norfolk elimination wagon

[Norfolk Boy1]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

You saying you're happy being the D1 elim certainly didn't soft pr to me. If anything, it was a VT soft which is what I was talking about when I said it was negative utility for us to move off of you.

I dont think I buy it. This isn't a town pr play to basically soft vt and then to recalibrate. A town pr doesn't say they're comfortable being the D1 elim. This was a scum gambit that didn't work and so you rethought it. I mean you set us up to be scattering at EoD. You said you're comfortable being the elim, but to wait until 24 hours before forcing a claim. You knew you gonna claim a pr so it was going to be a last minute redirected wagon that gives scum maximum control. And you tried to push it to Italiano who I think is town here which also fits with a scum agenda.

VOTE: Norfolk

I dont buy the claim. I think this is survivalist.

48 hours, not 24. Important distinction, that.

And obviously you're wrong, as will likely soon be proven.

[MiniMegabyte]

Also, I have no problem with being eliminated

I'm Town Tracker.

Um what? I go back to my point of asking in what universe is Town especially a Town PR ever okay with being eliminated????

[MiniMegabyte]

There is seriously no way you are actually a tracker

[Dunnstral]

If nobody counterclaims him it's best we don't eliminate there today

UNVOTE: Norfolk Boy1

[Norfolk Boy1]

Mini, i'm not re-explaining the point of the game to you.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I see what you're saying Dunn, but the play here doesn't add up to town pr for me. I think we're letting this one off the hook. Look, I'll consolidate onto someone else, but I'm townreading Italiano, so im not going there.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m not comfortable letting the Norfolk slot go unchecked or unchallenged. Like I said tracker can be faked and can never actually be checked itself. If you are telling the truth, then it was an anti-town play because now you are an instant kill; we won’t get your night result and the move in essence makes you a simple powerless vanilla town.

If we do move off of you for today and you are not the night kill, then just know who I’ll be coming for on Day 2; if I’m alive.

We also can’t rule out the fact that there are Masons that know Norfolk is lying, but are willing to let it ride for now, hence the no counterclaim.

[ItalianoVD]

If nobody counterclaims him it's best we don't eliminate there today

UNVOTE: Norfolk Boy1

What’s on your mind? Where would you go if this becomes a reality?

[ItalianoVD]

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted. At the time I was ~70% sure it was a townie post, but still willing to hear the opposing side of the argument. Don't get me wrong, there is potential it was WIFOM. I was willing to sit down and have a discussion with someone, listening to their reasoning behind it and their POV. Instead all I got "if you think he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes, don't you let him wiggle out of it" which didn't really clear up anything, and felt like you were trying to guide me (arguably the least experienced player here) onto hopping onto the Norfolk elimination wagon

I don’t care if it’s a wagon or not, who’s on it, or whatever the case is. I

was

trying to guide you. I was guiding you to never just disregard the other side of your thought process, which I felt you were doing. I’ve allowed many scum/wolves to wiggle out of getting killed and they end up killing me and going on to either win or get close to winning; all because I completely let them off the hook. There’s nothing wrong with townreading or scumreading a player, just make sure it’s never an absolute read and that you are flexible to the point you’d be okay townreading your scumread and vice versa, otherwise that’s how you mislynch townies and/or let scum wiggle through unscathed. Things change quickly in these games.

BTW, I still don’t get what you were trying to solve or get from 232. I thought it was a very strange post. I also think you may be trying to use your “inexperience” to get over, but that’s just my gut. That’s how your posts sound after doing your iso.

[Micc]

Votecount 1.08

Norfolk Boy1 (3) -

ItalianoVD, MiniMegabyte, Billy Pilgrim

ItalianoVD (2) -

Norfolk Boy1, Facebones

Dunnstral (1) -

Bakslash

MiniMegabyte (1) -

Rockhopper

Not Voting (1) -

padwag, Dunnstral

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is paused at 2 days.

Searching for a replacement for padwag.
The deadline for Day 1 will be reset to 2 days and paused until all slots are filled.

[Micc]

wiyvern replaces padwag.
Prodding Rockhopper.

[wiyvern]

Hey everyone, I'm planning on reading the game later tonight since I'm somewhat busy rn. I'll give reads and stuff then

[Facebones]

If that’s how you feel, like if that’s in your mind then you don’t let him wiggle out of it by backing off.

There’s nothing wrong with townreading or scumreading a player, just make sure it’s never an absolute read and that you are flexible to the point you’d be okay townreading your scumread and vice versa

These posts are contradictory. In one you're saying that if any part of my mind says a player could be scum it's important to not let them off the hook by backing off.

Then in the other you're saying if any part of my mind says a player is scum, I shouldn't absolutely discount the chance they are town because the game evolves quickly and it's important to be flexible and open minded.

Which one is it?

Also, in regards to 232, I thought it was interesting that you either didn't read my post or just blatantly ignored it for the second time this game

[Facebones]

Welcome to the shit show, wiyvern

[MiniMegabyte]

Hey everyone, I'm planning on reading the game later tonight since I'm somewhat busy rn. I'll give reads and stuff then

Welcome!

[wiyvern]

Thanks for the welcome everyone! Anyways, I just finished reading everything so, here's my reads.

Norfolk Boy 1- Town. He claimed tracker and there hasn't been a cc. I don't see any reason to lynch him.
Facebones- Town. I've liked their posts, and they seem to be solving pretty well. I also agreed with a lot if things they saud when I was reading through everything.
Rockhopper- Slight Town. Basically for the same reasons as Facebones, but to a lesser extent. And tbh, I'm not entirely sure I agreed with things they said because them and Facebones started to blur together after some time. I might iso them seperately later so I get a better idea, but for now, I think this is good.
Billy Pilgrim- Very Slight Town. Man, I've been flip-flopping around with this slot so much. I originally town read them a little bit, then some posts of theirs pinged me, and eventually I went back to just town reading them. It's kind of a gut read ig.
Dunnstral- Null(mostly). They exist. I don't think they've done that much, but I got to admit, none of their posts seem necessarily bad to me, so if I had to call them town or mafia, I'd say town.
Bakslash- Null probably. I really just don't remember a lot from them, so I don't have much to say. Will probably iso later.
ItalianoVD- Leaning Scum. They seem to be agreeing with a lot of stuff. From their posts, I don't remember seeing a ton of individual thoughts not said by others ready. IIRC they made two or three consecutive posts saying they agreed with something. I'm not saying you can't ever agree with anyone, but I feel like Italiano might be agreeing a bit too much.
MiniMegabyte- Scum. I flip flopped on her originally, but after I read through the game more and more, my scumread on her grew more and more. It's mostly because I don't feel like they've contributed much. A lot of their posts(iirc) have been more like fluff posts and/or not related to reads and game advancing stuff.

[wiyvern]

Ah that formatting looks horrible, sorry. Should've put double spaces there.

[wiyvern]

VOTE: Mini

[Rockhopper]

Hey wiyvern!

What does probably null and mostly null mean?