Newbie 2037 - Game Over

[wiyvern]

Null means that I don't have a read on them, kinda like neutral

[Norfolk Boy1]

I'm liking the look of a mini/italiano scum team and these are worth reading again:

*mini RVS votes italiano and they have a chat - excellent distancing posting to make it look like they haven't spoken in a while (posts 15, 36, 37)

*mini 'questions' RQS and italiano doesn't grill the responses as he did with the Town Tracker (posts 40, 49, 64 and 65)

*both call out Dunstrall in sync (posts 61 and 66)

*mini tries to wriggle out of her earlier 'questioning' (post 98)

*both pressure Rockhopper in sync (posts 99 and 102)

*Italiano chucks out a townread on mini with no reasoning beyond "she's always been town before" (post 171)

Also, both are still voting for a claimed town PR despite nobody offering a counter. Billy at least offered a reason for not believing my claim, even though my claim has a 50/50 chance of being immediately uncovered (which it won't, because it's the truth, as they both know).

[Dunnstral]

I was definitely hoping that people would be able to sense what was happening without me having to explicitly say it.

You saying you're happy being the D1 elim certainly didn't soft pr to me. If anything, it was a VT soft which is what I was talking about when I said it was negative utility for us to move off of you.

I dont think I buy it. This isn't a town pr play to basically soft vt and then to recalibrate. A town pr doesn't say they're comfortable being the D1 elim. This was a scum gambit that didn't work and so you rethought it. I mean you set us up to be scattering at EoD. You said you're comfortable being the elim, but to wait until 24 hours before forcing a claim. You knew you gonna claim a pr so it was going to be a last minute redirected wagon that gives scum maximum control. And you tried to push it to Italiano who I think is town here which also fits with a scum agenda.

VOTE: Norfolk

I dont buy the claim. I think this is survivalist.

I may be wrong but isn't it best to eliminate somewhere else if there's no counterclaim? This is a convincing case though.

Spoiler: Norfolk

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

I don’t partner hunt, but you can tell

us

. :cool:

Don't be weak. See it through - name a name.

It’s not weak. I don’t partner hunt.

Town don't dodge questions and if you're town, you need to find 2 scum.

So, go on - who are you currently reading for scum role 2?

Rocky, Dunnstral and Italiano - if i'm scum, who is my scumbuddy?

2 of 3 have posted since this and the other is Dunnstral who is a part timer.

Somebody must be bold enough to share their latest reads on who is scum 2 if i'm scum 1, even if it's a 'gut read'.

Also, I have no problem with being eliminated, but lets be sensible and give it another calendar day or 2 before we go through the E1 process.

I like Billy P. He's like a bear sniffing around for trout.

Also, thanks for answering, padwag. But it's Dunnstral, Rockhopper and Italiano that should be answering. Their silence is well worth noting down.

Simply put, his behaviour here is quite different from that in his previous scum games. I feel like challenging the voters with such confidence to name the second scum is genuine town frustration since this was neither his reaction to his wagons in those games nor a method he implemented to scumhunt as scum. There's also a difference in the level of analysis which could probably be a result of rolling town for the first time.

I fully agree with your case on his claim and I'll prolly vote for him if there's a cc, but this was my read when I unvoted.

Yeah it is not good to continue pushing Norfolk. I think the points made against MiniMegabyte by wiyvern and Norfolk are good enough for a bote:

VOTE: MiniMegabyte

[Rockhopper]

Mini, what are your reads on everyone?

[MiniMegabyte]

Sorry I’ve been busy all day and I have an early start in the morning I will get on at some point tomorrow but until then I apologise for not being around

[ItalianoVD]

If that’s how you feel, like if that’s in your mind then you don’t let him wiggle out of it by backing off.

There’s nothing wrong with townreading or scumreading a player, just make sure it’s never an absolute read and that you are flexible to the point you’d be okay townreading your scumread and vice versa

These posts are contradictory. In one you're saying that if any part of my mind says a player could be scum it's important to not let them off the hook by backing off.

Then in the other you're saying if any part of my mind says a player is scum, I shouldn't absolutely discount the chance they are town because the game evolves quickly and it's important to be flexible and open minded.

Which one is it?

*sigh* No, they’re saying the same thing, it just changes the perspective. The first quote is about this game. You townread Norfolk and were willing to disregard a possible scumread. The second quote was about mafia in general. If you townread a player don’t disregard a possible scumread. If you scumread and player don’t disregard a possible townread. Come on I’ve already explained this!

Also, in regards to 232, I thought it was interesting that you either didn't read my post or just blatantly ignored it for the second time this game

What post did I ignore? Second time? I don’t remember a first. Did you ask me a question I missed? I did an ISO on you to try to see what you’re talking about and found nothing. Post 219 was for Dunnstral, not me, so why would I respond to it. Are you sure I was the one you were meaning to ask this? You have had a couple of instances of mixing people up. I’m truly lost here. Can anyone else help me out here?

[ItalianoVD]

Hey wiyvern, welcome to the game!

Let’s make things interesting with some RQS

For those that don’t know, RQS is called Random Questioning Stage and it has its advantages. And this is for everyone in the playerlist. Non answers get scumread.

1. What is your overall mafia experience? Not just on this site.
2. Do you prefer playing scum/wolf or town/village?
3. In your opinion, what are some of the top things to look for when scumhunting?
4. When townhunting?
5. Is it easy or difficult for you to lie?

[Facebones]

Very discreet

[ItalianoVD]

Norfolk Boy 1- Town. He claimed tracker and there hasn't been a cc. I don't see any reason to lynch him.

Fair enough.

Facebones- Town. I've liked their posts, and they seem to be solving pretty well. I also agreed with a lot if things they saud when I was reading through everything.

What does solving pretty well mean to you?

Rockhopper- Slight Town. Basically for the same reasons as Facebones, but to a lesser extent. And tbh, I'm not entirely sure I agreed with things they said because them and Facebones started to blur together after some time. I might iso them seperately later so I get a better idea, but for now, I think this is good.

So he’s slightly less town because you don’t agree with his posts? Blur together? Could you explain that?

Billy Pilgrim- Very Slight Town. Man, I've been flip-flopping around with this slot so much. I originally town read them a little bit, then some posts of theirs pinged me, and eventually I went back to just town reading them. It's kind of a gut read ig.

What were those posts that pinged you?

Dunnstral- Null(mostly). They exist. I don't think they've done that much, but I got to admit, none of their posts seem necessarily bad to me, so if I had to call them town or mafia, I'd say town.

Don’t have a problem with this.

Bakslash- Null probably. I really just don't remember a lot from them, so I don't have much to say. Will probably iso later.

What will an iso do if they haven’t said much?

ItalianoVD- Leaning Scum. They seem to be agreeing with a lot of stuff. From their posts, I don't remember seeing a ton of individual thoughts not said by others ready. IIRC they made two or three consecutive posts saying they agreed with something. I'm not saying you can't ever agree with anyone, but I feel like Italiano might be agreeing a bit too much.

In 227, I agreed with Dunnstral’s 217 about Norfolk and in 230, I agreed with Rockhopper’s 183 about padwag and bakslash. Where else have I agreed a lot about?

MiniMegabyte- Scum. I flip flopped on her originally, but after I read through the game more and more, my scumread on her grew more and more. It's mostly because I don't feel like they've contributed much. A lot of their posts(iirc) have been more like fluff posts and/or not related to reads and game advancing stuff.

How is Mini different from Dunnstral and bakslash?

Overall this feels like a scum-motivated readslist, especially the vote. Easy for scum to vote for the inactive and no content slot. But we have time to discuss it thanks to the pause/reset.

[Facebones]

Blur together? Could you explain that?

I would also like an explanation

[ItalianoVD]

I'm liking the look of a mini/italiano scum team and these are worth reading again:

Good case, but smh.

*mini RVS votes italiano and they have a chat - excellent distancing posting to make it look like they haven't spoken in a while (posts 15, 36, 37)

Excellent distance posting?? Really? I don’t think that’s what that is. And we

haven’t

spoken in a while. I can’t speak for Mini, but I was genuine.

*mini 'questions' RQS and italiano doesn't grill the responses as he did with the Town Tracker (posts 40, 49, 64 and 65)

Interesting framing by the way:

italiano doesn't grill the responses as he did with the Town Tracker

The town tracker? I don’t know if you’re the town tracker. You say you are, but fmpov you could not be. It’s not a bad thing to be skeptical imo, especially on day 1.

The thing is Mini answered all the questions, you didn’t. I was grilling you and Rockhopper for not answering. And just to be clear, that’s NOT why I started to scumread you. Sure it made me think “what do these people have to hide?” but as I said to Facebones the “non answers get scumread” bit was me being facetious. I wanted people to answer because most don’t.

*both call out Dunstrall in sync (posts 61 and 66)

Okay? And?

*mini tries to wriggle out of her earlier 'questioning' (post 98)

I’ll let Mini respond to this.

*both pressure Rockhopper in sync (posts 99 and 102)

Okay? And?

*Italiano chucks out a townread on mini with no reasoning beyond "she's always been town before" (post 171)

Really? In 229 I responded to Rockhopper and said this: “Well as I said I’ve played with her two times as town and she is playing similar to the way she was then. The fact that she challenged me for my RQS questioning shows she’s not worried about ruffling feathers, which I believe she knows wouldn’t be good if she was scum, given that I can tunnel hard.”

Also, both are still voting for a claimed town PR despite nobody offering a counter. Billy at least offered a reason for not believing my claim, even though my claim has a 50/50 chance of being immediately uncovered (which it won't, because it's the truth, as they both know).

It’s clear you are reading my posts with bias. “Billy at least offered a reason for not believing my claim”...

So these aren’t reasons I guess? 308, 324, 337 Are you disregarding them? Let me know.

[ItalianoVD]

Alright, so the goofy thing about pre-flip associations and trying to solve for both partners on Day 1 is you can case literally anyone in the game. I can case Norfolk and Rockhopper together, Norfolk and Facebones, Billy and Dunnstral, padwag/wiyvern and bakslash, just to name a few. This is why I don’t partner hunt because you go in thinking you have the game solved and realize that you’re wrong and then you feel like an idiot. Norfolk, why weren’t you curious as to why I don’t partner hunt? You immediately dismissed it as a scumtell. I can’t speak for Mini, but I am 100% not scum and if you actually ISO’d me, you’d see this; well it wouldn’t be 100% fypov, but you get what I’m saying.

You think we’re scum partners. There’s another possibility that you aren’t allowing for. We’re both town and I am comfortable interacting with her and possibly sheeping her because I feel her thoughts come from a townie mindset.

[ItalianoVD]

Very discreet

What’s very discreet?

[Facebones]

Very discreet

What’s very discreet?

Post 356.

[ItalianoVD]

Very discreet

What’s very discreet?

Post 356.

How so?

[Facebones]

It wasn't. I was being facetious.

[MiniMegabyte]

both are still voting for a claimed town PR despite nobody offering a counter.

Well iirc I don’t think I’ve played with you before if I have it’s been a while. I just can’t wrap my head around the thought of a PR that is actually valuable to have to help track down scum being okay with themselves being eliminated especially on D1. And before you go on about explaining the game to me again, I have never played a game with a PR being okay with being eliminated at all let alone a D1 elimination. You say you’re leaving enough information behind for us other townies to work with but Wouldn’t it be better for us to have your help aswell? Until I get an answer to this I am not unvoting

[MiniMegabyte]

Mini, what are your reads on everyone?

I’m on mobile right now as I am out so I will post a full reads list when I get home

[MiniMegabyte]

mini RVS votes italiano and they have a chat - excellent distancing posting to make it look like they haven't spoken in a while (posts 15, 36, 37)

We haven’t spoken in a while! And because this is a fairly new player list for me it was good to see someone on there that I had played with before

[MiniMegabyte]

Also I’m regard to post 351 could you please do post tags so I can actually go back and look at them with light going through the entire game. Thanks

[MiniMegabyte]

Also In regards to post 351 could you please do post tags so I can actually go back and look at them without going through the entire game. Thanks

God dam I hate mobile this post I have fixed up the mistakes

[MiniMegabyte]

*mini tries to wriggle out of her earlier 'questioning' (post 98)

You really think I’d be asking the town how to scum?

You have a good point there I don’t think you would but I would say the same thing to anyone that asked those questions

Can you explain your comment then?

It seems scummy to do but I’ve played with Italiano before so I don’t think they would need to ask for their benefit

How is that trying to wriggle out of Questioning? I have an answer based on my experience. Sorry if it’s not good enough for you

[Norfolk Boy1]

Well iirc I don’t think I’ve played with you before if I have it’s been a while. I just can’t wrap my head around the thought of a PR that is actually valuable to have to help track down scum being okay with themselves being eliminated especially on D1. And before you go on about explaining the game to me again, I have never played a game with a PR being okay with being eliminated at all let alone a D1 elimination. You say you’re leaving enough information behind for us other townies to work with but Wouldn’t it be better for us to have your help aswell? Until I get an answer to this I am not unvoting

We have played together before, but I don't think you were able to play for long so subbed out early. That was the game I referenced a couple of times where someone was E2 within 20 or so posts.

Obviously, it's better for town that i'm still involved, but you have to remember that at the time, it was 24 hours to deadline, lots of slots were silent and I was E1 (and don't forget who put me there). I had to claim and I had to explain. I've subsequently been proven right because whenever in the game I flip, there's loads of information to go on.

As for the post tags, i'll try to do that, but i'm exclusively playing on mobile and using anything other than Quick Reply takes me an age. I'll try to do it from now on, though.

[MiniMegabyte]

We have played together before, but I don't think you were able to play for long so subbed out early. That was the game I referenced a couple of times where someone was E2 within 20 or so posts.

Right! that does make those references make a bit more sense now. Also yeah wasnt in a good place at that time

[MiniMegabyte]

Obviously, it's better for town that i'm still involved, but you have to remember that at the time, it was 24 hours to deadline, lots of slots were silent and I was E1 (and don't forget who put me there). I had to claim and I had to explain. I've subsequently been proven right because whenever in the game I flip, there's loads of information to go on.

Right so now that you are starting to make sense to me I am going to start with unvoting.
UNVOTE: Norfolk
I am going to say it still amazes me about how you went about it, however if that is the way you play (and like you said you have been proven right before), then who am I to make you change. I just really hope you are right this time