Micro 975: The Shape of Water [END]

[punpun]

VOTE: punpun

This sucks, Infinity

~pun

[punpun]

When I make pushes, I usually go hard on them. Not because I need to or have an agenda, but because it's my playstyle. What's scum-motivated about the push, Mars/Infinity?

~pun

[Infinity 324]

It’s fine to scumread player B because of player A’s meta reasons. It may even be possible (though a bit questionable) to do so while player A is townreading them. But to do so without difficulty/contradiction doesn’t make sense from a town perspective.

[Infinity 324]

If you don’t want to look into the meta, why not engage? It feels like you’re worried that you’ll lose the SR if you do that.

[Venus and Mars]

I’m really liking Infinity’s posts but punpun’s aggro Creature push is kind of weirding me out. @punpun, you have two people in this game who have meta on that slot including your #1 townread who don’t want to fade him, so why are you pushing him this hard?

You weren’t too concerned about Creature before I vetoed your Alchemist push.

And it reads quite differently to me than Infinity’s no vote deadline concern. I’m really not getting town vibes from that push at all.

VOTE: punpun

~Mars

Sigh, because there's no direction and we need a elim. Creature is our best lead, even if it's not confident. Why as scum do I need to go hard aggro on Creature, considering he's not even got us in the scumpool, and we were under no threat at the time?

~pun

Not to me, especially on D1. When Creature is engaged he makes really good reads. He’s caught scum in a lot of games and is also very frequently misexecuted.

In Starcraft 2, I had a hard gut tr on his predecessor Taly, then Creature replaced into that slot. He’s towntellihg a lot more in this game than he ever did in that one. I told people to never execute that slot and then my slot was NK’d, Creature was executed and he flipped town, just like I said he would.

~M

[punpun]

I don't get what you mean about this meta thing. At no point did Gamma or Mars say they were townreading Creature because of meta, Mars only mentioned that apathy is NAI for Creature.

This post doesn’t usually come from scum. Creature acted this way, actually worse in a game where he ultimately flipped town. He’s genuinely trying and he doesn’t sound off like he did in TBoNtB. The negativity by itself is NIA.

This is different

~pun

[punpun]

If you don’t want to look into the meta, why not engage? It feels like you’re worried that you’ll lose the SR if you do that.

Why do I have to be worried about having a scumread? It's okay to be lost or have no confident scumreads as scum.

I've tried engaging with Creature about the game, and he's ignored me.

~pun

[punpun]

I’m really liking Infinity’s posts but punpun’s aggro Creature push is kind of weirding me out. @punpun, you have two people in this game who have meta on that slot including your #1 townread who don’t want to fade him, so why are you pushing him this hard?

You weren’t too concerned about Creature before I vetoed your Alchemist push.

And it reads quite differently to me than Infinity’s no vote deadline concern. I’m really not getting town vibes from that push at all.

VOTE: punpun

~Mars

Sigh, because there's no direction and we need a elim. Creature is our best lead, even if it's not confident. Why as scum do I need to go hard aggro on Creature, considering he's not even got us in the scumpool, and we were under no threat at the time?

~pun

Not to me, especially on D1. When Creature is engaged he makes really good reads. He’s caught scum in a lot of games and is also very frequently misexecuted.

In Starcraft 2, I had a hard gut tr on his predecessor Taly, then Creature replaced into that slot. He’s towntellihg a lot more in this game than he ever did in that one. I told people to never execute that slot and then my slot was NK’d, Creature was executed and he flipped town, just like I said he would.

~M

What's an example of towntelling he's done this game? being lost and having no reads?

~pun

[Venus and Mars]

When I make pushes, I usually go hard on them. Not because I need to or have an agenda, but because it's my playstyle. What's scum-motivated about the push, Mars/Infinity?

~pun

Because you’re not listening to anyone who’s disagreeing with you. If you hard push a slot and people who know him better than you do don’t want to kill him, you should listen to that and maybe think that they have more info on that player than you do.

~M

[punpun]

and it feels like you’re jumping on the opportunity for a potential ML/solid scumread.

This is particularly bad and makes me a little paranoid of Infinity+Creature. Like, why as scum am I so worried about getting a potential miselim when the gamestate is so fractured and our slot is under no suspicion?

~pun

[punpun]

eh, actually. ours was the only vote on Creature, it's not like he was under any trouble there, and this associates them too directly. ignore that

~pun

[punpun]

When I make pushes, I usually go hard on them. Not because I need to or have an agenda, but because it's my playstyle. What's scum-motivated about the push, Mars/Infinity?

~pun

Because you’re not listening to anyone who’s disagreeing with you. If you hard push a slot and people who know him better than you do don’t want to kill him, you should listen to that and maybe think that they have more info on that player than you do.

~M

The arguments weren't compelling before, they were along the lines of "Creature is solving". You've shedded some more light this page and the last which makes me have my doubts though.

For now: UNVOTE: Creature

~pun

[Infinity 324]

I don't get what you mean about this meta thing. At no point did Gamma or Mars say they were townreading Creature because of meta, Mars only mentioned that apathy is NAI for Creature.

This post doesn’t usually come from scum. Creature acted this way, actually worse in a game where he ultimately flipped town. He’s genuinely trying and he doesn’t sound off like he did in TBoNtB. The negativity by itself is NIA.

This is different

~pun

Yeah but you’re scumreading creature using

their

meta reasons. Like your weighting V&M’s meta reasons more than V&M themselves.

[punpun]

...what? Where am I scumreading Creature using their apathy meta reasons? I'm scumleaning Creature for completely other things.

~pun

[punpun]

Kind of frustrated, taking a break.

~pun

[Infinity 324]

I guess you’re not townreading* creature cause of the meta? Idk, I’m kinda done trying to explain this, you used meta reasons that weren’t yours to come to a different conclusion than V&M.

[Venus and Mars]

I'm not confident on scum being derp

Another townie sounding post.

Creature’s alignment gets clearer as the game progresses. Venus was the one who initially voted him for lurking but he stopped sr him after he started doing stuff. His reads sound genuine to me.

~Me

[The Bulge]

I can't bring up examples rn but I've gotten a strong gutread on you early as scum more than once before, but here you seem completely different. granted im not one for meta dives but its a read im ok with for now

punpun's heads converging on alchemist pinged me the hardest, but my earliest impression was that I disgree with most of their reads and their interactions with you seemed off as well

what about the interactions with me seem off? i dont like that you're hacheting townreads. i have absolutely the opposite read on punpun - ive liked that the heads are on the same page. why is alchemist town?

punpunhead's initial jump onto you was pretty weak, and punhead's first post after that unvotes for just as weak a reason. your inclusion in 191 is odd given these weak reasonings and what seems like light hydra dissonance, but they make no mention of you further other than pun warning you to not dish out TRs from mindmelds too easily. I can't exactly put my finger on it but it all seems so fabricated

I don't think alchemist is town and the only reason I've seen from anyone townreading him is meta

[The Bulge]

I'll do another read tonight because i for sure thought i was replacing into a scumslot lol but im not too worried about dl

Why? Was it the gimmick?

~Mars

no, it was the obsession with your slot. newbscum love to complain about reading hydrae, and I've found it's usually a fairly reliable tell

[The Bulge]

Bulge, what pings you about how we converged on Alchemist?

~pun

Spoiler: posted 8 seconds apart

I dislike Creature's attitude and outlook of the game immensely, but I also think he's town for it.



Alchemist feels kinda of awkward this game. He lacks personality in his posts and he's being pretty formal/serious. I don't know if that's a scumtell for him specifically but I'm too lazy to check right now, and I think overall, it's probably a slightly scummy thing on average. Oh, also, I realise part of this is due to the way Alchemist capitalises "town" and "townread" and terms like that; I've always found that weird and scummy for some reason. I'm trying to filter that part out though and I still get the same general vibes.

VOTE: Alchemist

~pun

i am too tired to really post coherently and i should try to post at more decent times, but i still think gamma is town. as things have progress i've found myself agreeing with a lot of his thoughts on things (mostly regarding taylor who i still have a not-great feeling about, especially given her interactions with infinity. she also seems as if she's trying to disengage with pressure being placed upon her on this page which makes me even more).

pun and i talked some though and we both have the same thoughts about alchemist. my townread on him has dwindled as the game moved onward, and he feels as if his posts are stilted in a way that other people aren't. i do wonder if part of that is because it's a fairly quiet game and there's less to chew on/work with but even that feels like an issue scum would struggle with way more.

other than that, infinity has crept up my townlist more, as has derp (i like the tone of his posts). creature is extremely cranky but, like pun said, he feels town regardless.

~punpun

punhead's given reasons for voting Alchemist are

extremely

weak and I fail to see how that could ever possibly sway the other head's opinion. if you discussed your differing reads of alchemist with each other, what else did you talk about? surely there were other reasons given in private.

[The Bulge]

I didnt catch that before but the mocking tone in the first part doesnt really line up to me with how theyre choosing to deal with the slot in that same post

Explain why? I'm irritated with what he's saying in calling the game boring, saying it's a loss due to the playerlist etc, it's negative and anti-fun. But still, I thought it was town-indicative at the time because it draws a lot of negative attention, and scum usually aren't so bold.

~pun

it's minor but it's mostly a language thing. your tone comes off as somewhat... passionate? in the first and last lines. the "I've kinda shelved him as probtown" line sticks out to me. your feelings toward the slot don't seem genuine in that post.

[The Bulge]

#138 from my boy Alchemist pings me a bit. It's like drawing content/making stances about stuff that isn't there. For example, #74 is not a defense, and #131 is overall gut town? Strange, but is strange SCUM... this is the question.

~pun

also this looks like a big setup for the posts I quoted above. it's fencesitty as hell but then none of these points are brought up again?

[The Bulge]

VOTE: punpun yea feeling this much more after reading again. that's E-2

[The Bulge]

Sailor Senshi
Derp
Gamma Emerald
Alchemist21
Tayl0r Swift
Creature
Punpun
Infinity 324

I think I'm approximately here as of this page

I'm letting the other scouts handle voting tho

-merc

Weird that you have a full readlist with everyone on separate tiers already. My only read right now is that I townlean Gamma.

Explain the derp and Infinity reads.

VOTE: Sailors

~pun

Why is pun scum?

Also weird that Infinity asks about pun and not himself who's at the bottom. Why weren't you curious about yourself, Infinity?

~pun

I'm just an awkward person in general I think, I'm also trying to get the game going since it's been a bit slow so far.

VOTE: Infinity

Why was your vote on Swift naked if you were trying to get the game going?

~pun

derp you're not an alt of hewhoswims are you?

-M

no i am a terrible swimmer

this was actually pretty funny. my townlean here is just a spicy hot take off this one post, I'll need more to cement it

You think ability to be funny is something that's alignment indicative?

~pun

these are all bad-faith questions and pushes. reads like scum trying to get early footing in the game when nothing much was really going on.

you have wrung out of me a pre-sleep mobilepost

but no, i haven’t before

~punpun

did you put on your striped suit before making this appearance

If not Alchemist, I'd want Creature. This attitude is apparently NAI for him and he's gonna be very unhelpful if he is town, so at least we won't be losing much.

~pun

huh, I'll vote for derp if not Creature

Hey, Gamma, what have you seen that's towny from Creature? Enlighten me pls

~pun

lol

[The Bulge]

But can I really call you friend at this point?
VOTE: Derp
I don’t trust his tone rn

I don't like this. playing along with the bit and then immediately voting because of it? also weird timing, obviously derp was a gimmick account, so why not call this out earlier?