Death Curse

[shellyc]

im rather sure that {Tswift/UNO/Fredrick/Fidget} contains 2+ scum, not all because taylor/UNO isn't that viable.

[shellyc]

about fred i dont remember look at my iso.

there's a certain obtuseness/ignorance from taylors recent play and that's pretty scummy

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I'd say ... slow down there shelly.

I still don't like your play this game. And I agree with my sleep-deprived caffeine-withdrawing self about Fred's wagon stalling suspiciously early. Check the Noraa wagon stall point at around E-2 with some flickering around E-1 as people get hammer-wary, compare to this Fred wagon stalling at about E-3 with more live scum in the gamestate and FAR less time till stall.

I think I'm approximately 10,000% sure that Fred should remain the focus.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

If I weren't still a little bit iffy on leashing the scroll passes at all, I'd say Tayl0r for third scroll makes SOME sense if Fred's first place, though.

Please note that this should not be considered binding for the second scroll holder. It's what I might do here, but I think I'd still prefer to ISO Fredenek and determine strongest associatives first, then balance the two of strongest-Fred-associative vs. Taylor according to informative flips, strength of associatives, and scumminess quotient (which is probably a real thing but I just made up my own version of, which is "which one's play do I like least here RIGHT NOW").

[shellyc]

I'd say ... slow down there shelly.

I still don't like your play this game. And I agree with my sleep-deprived caffeine-withdrawing self about Fred's wagon stalling suspiciously early. Check the Noraa wagon stall point at around E-2 with some flickering around E-1 as people get hammer-wary, compare to this Fred wagon stalling at about E-3 with more live scum in the gamestate and FAR less time till stall.

I think I'm approximately 10,000% sure that Fred should remain the focus.

HURT: Fred

happy?
i think we can force taylor to get rid of fred slot if she's town, and scum!Taylor will be much more dangerous to town vs. scum!fred

[shellyc]

I'd say ... slow down there shelly.

lets talk so I know you're not shitpushin'

what do you dislike?

[MURDERCAT]

Lol remember when shelly apparently didn't know about these tags

[shellyc]

Lol remember when shelly apparently didn't know about these tags

i use the hurt tag all the time to placeholder vote, even without this mechanic

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Tayl0r is not that dangerous to town really. She's LHF as either alignment, and her ISO is going to be full of red herring associatives because she can't help herself when it comes to no-hopers. Fred's an easy elimination too, but there's SO MUCH friction there that I have to imagine it's because the scumteam doesn't like his or Zdenek's (not sure which) ISO for them.


I don't like your play because you have none of the personality traits I remember from 2025. Granted, those personality traits were absolutely goddamn awful for you there, and you managed to emulate them convincingly enough in 2026, where you were scum. I did do a quick doublecheck on the two games, and your play here reminds me more of your play in Space. Okay, I hate meta because any reasonably self-aware player can abuse it, fair enough, I just cannot sort you in any of my ordinary ways so I have to automatically scum-bias you, use garbage read methods like meta*, and use normally shit arguments for sorting a slot.

Generally speaking:
More confident on less info than in 2025. (And notably, there you were /right/ and had temporally immediate meta to prove it, and you still waffled and left room for being wrong. This is almost certainly an experience level difference instead of an alignment difference, but please see above.)
Irreconcilable read disagreements (hey remember when you called Zdenek town for pages and pages? Me neither) whereas we sort of could agree as a general rule on 2025 after we were eliminated. This game is more of a trainwreck and since the reduction in shitposting we've seen more agreement between us, but it's still a notable distinction.
Shitposting is definitely your style but you know when to dial it back normally; Pooky kept you contributing about a quarter of thread weight for ages. This argument is trash and I should be ashamed but please again see above.

It's not confident, and it's heavily weighted against you by default, but I don't like your play here anyway.



*- Meta for me is usually a course-correction when I know I'll fuck up sorting a slot otherwise. Hence why I'm using it for Noraa and Tayl0r and Fred. You are the only player other than Noraa for whom it's the primary component of my read, and Noraa's been making me /question/ every so often too, so...

[MURDERCAT]

yea lets just kill fred whatever

VOTE: Fred

VOTE: Fredrick

round 2

VOTE: Fred

but Fidget next please.

MUSH does this not worry you? I agree this wagon is town led but I think there were some weak hop ons

[MURDERCAT]

I think I love you, tbh.

But yes, okay.

Vote: Toog

Anyone else weirded out by this?

[Gloria Cleary]

yea lets just kill fred whatever

VOTE: Fred

VOTE: Fredrick

round 2

VOTE: Fred

but Fidget next please.

MUSH does this not worry you? I agree this wagon is town led but I think there were some weak hop ons

@MC,are you not reading my posts? Because I unvoted. I’m null on Fred and I think Pooky and Shelley are probably town.

Also, why does scum!me try to bust up the Noraa wagon?

I think you’re very likely town here but some of your reads may possibly be worse than Toog’s.

I know that town!Pooky can get deathtunnelled and that’s what I think is happening with Noraa. I should probably do more meta diving on Shelley though.

@Tayl0r, why do you believe that Pooky’s scum but Fred is town? Both of them are hard pushing you, so what’s the difference?

I just did a comprehensive Pooky ISO and I’m now leaning town on him.

I don’t understand why Shelley thinks Tayl0r/Fred are linked. I’m definitely not getting buddy vibes from them.

[Gloria Cleary]

I think I love you, tbh.

But yes, okay.

Vote: Toog

Anyone else weirded out by this?

No, why?

I wasn’t here while any of that was going down, so if there’s some context to it that you’ve possibly left out?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Main reason I can see a Tayl0r/Fred link is Tayl0r's normally at least remotely plausible reasoning (e.g. if she has any reasoning at all for her reads it's normally at least /internally/ consistent) completely being thrown out in favor of the biggest fucking reach I've ever seen displayed publicly in a Mafia game. Who the fuck says there's some pattern, even a weak one, in who's driving the wagons -- WHEN THERE'S NO OVERLAP THERE AT ALL? Literally zero! None of the major drivers are the same! Not a single one! The overlap is all at the goddamned periphery and it's a stretch to even say that matters much between the two wagons when most of the overlap hopped on Toog at the very end with some amount of reluctance and is crack of fucking dawn early on Fred. To make all of this more egregious, who says this and then puts all the evidence needed to disprove themselves in one of the very posts they make the garbage assertion in?

It's utter garbage and bullshit is what I'm saying. And that's not town Tayl0r, who has trouble justifying her reads and actions but generally just sort of shrugs when questioned because her approach to playing the game is fairly seat-of-the-pants.



MURDERCAT, I've nulled Pooky for now pending a reread, and I'm going to give Gloria the benefit of the doubt for the moment. And I'd like you to note that Shelly has jumped off wagon twice. If she had even put the slightest effort into it, I'd say she was blatantly attempting to derail, but this seems more like something else.


PEDIT: The LLD thing was just a response to me making all her arguments for her. Basically a naked vote out of context; in context clearly a "oh hey I don't need to do any work, thanks".

[Gloria Cleary]

I feel like there was a reason I townread Titus but I don't remember. Can you obvtown Titus or remind my Pooky?

she probly doesnt attack me like this if she's scum

her posts reflect a willful ignorance about the game state that doesn't seem faked - if she had a scum PT to look at I can't imagine she would be this clueless about what's happened already in the game.

+1

Titus is very obviously town here. Absolutely anyone with any decent meta on her can verify that.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

Main reason I can see a Tayl0r/Fred link is Tayl0r's normally at least remotely plausible reasoning (e.g. if she has any reasoning at all for her reads it's normally at least /internally/ consistent) completely being thrown out in favor of the biggest fucking reach I've ever seen displayed publicly in a Mafia game. Who the fuck says there's some pattern, even a weak one, in who's driving the wagons -- WHEN THERE'S NO OVERLAP THERE AT ALL? Literally zero! None of the major drivers are the same! Not a single one! The overlap is all at the goddamned periphery and it's a stretch to even say that matters much between the two wagons when most of the overlap hopped on Toog at the very end with some amount of reluctance and is crack of fucking dawn early on Fred. To make all of this more egregious, who says this and then puts all the evidence needed to disprove themselves in one of the very posts they make the garbage assertion in?

It's utter garbage and bullshit is what I'm saying. And that's not town Tayl0r, who has trouble justifying her reads and actions but generally just sort of shrugs when questioned because her approach to playing the game is fairly seat-of-the-pants.



MURDERCAT, I've nulled Pooky for now pending a reread, and I'm going to give Gloria the benefit of the doubt for the moment. And I'd like you to note that Shelly has jumped off wagon twice. If she had even put the slightest effort into it, I'd say she was blatantly attempting to derail, but this seems more like something else.


PEDIT: The LLD thing was just a response to me making all her arguments for her. Basically a naked vote out of context; in context clearly a "oh hey I don't need to do any work, thanks".

Her strong Fred defence strikes me as kind of weird. That was actually one of the initial reasons I was suspicious of Noraa, her tr of Pooky who was lockscum reading her but she never hard defended him to the extent Tayl0r is Fred. I know that if someone is lockscum reading me, I generally don’t hard tr them. I tend to be paranoid that they’re scum pushing a miselim on me. I’m not convinced they’re buddies though. It’s possible Tayl0r might not want to see Fred flip.

I liked her Hopkirk and Vax defenses a lot better. It wouldn’t concern me if she just wasn’t convinced he’s scum. null or even lightly tr him but a hard tr on someone that is lockscum reading you is seriously strange, especially since she’s lockscum reading Pooky who’s also lockscum reading her.

[Gloria Cleary]

when taylor gets a scum pm she likes to look for speeding trains and jump in front of them

So why does Taylor do this now, though?

Like I know Noraa is more or less outed scum right but

Why was Taylor basically lurking the thread and letting the Noraa death happen only to suddenly show up when we switch to hopkirk and go off like this?

Prima facie reason is Hopkirk and Taylor are both scum right?

and losing Noraa was acceptable, but losing Hopkirk was less so.

fucking stop to think for a second. your logic is so fucking bad here. why would i let one scumbuddy die? and if i were gonna let one die, why not let two die? and speaking up like this never does anything except get me killed as well. i NEVER make this play as scum. never ever. its unbelievably stupid. but because i oppose you, im scum. your logic is on exactly the same level as noraa's right now, but youre calling her scum for it.

This is why I don’t think Noraa is a Tayl0r buddy, IF she’s scum here but if she is, every single player in her scum list is very likely town.

I’m still trying to come up with a single strong sr, meanwhile she - sans even a single scumflip - already has an entire list.

[Gloria Cleary]

nah i think its a bad wagon, but this whole time ive been saying theres probably a better than random chance noraa flips scum, just not enough of a chance that she deserved the pressure shes under. its whatever, but its kinda dumb.

So, Tayl0r Swift, you thought that there is a better than random chance that Noraa flips scum, but you townread her?

Fred is right here. @Noraa what do you think about 316?

[Titus]

I feel like there was a reason I townread Titus but I don't remember. Can you obvtown Titus or remind my Pooky?

she probly doesnt attack me like this if she's scum

her posts reflect a willful ignorance about the game state that doesn't seem faked - if she had a scum PT to look at I can't imagine she would be this clueless about what's happened already in the game.

+1

Titus is very obviously town here. Absolutely anyone with any decent meta on her can verify that.

I am afraid you have me at a disadvantage. I am one of the least metable players on site, and I don't even try to hide my meta. That's because meta is usually shit unless personality driven.

That being said, I can see a Fred Taylor link. Taylor would absolutely ignore valid points on Marashu in the last game. This makes me think she just hyper defends her partners as a matter of personality. Comments?

[MURDERCAT]

@MC,are you not reading my posts? Because I unvoted. I’m null on Fred and I think Pooky and Shelley are probably town.

Yours is the vote I'm least worried about of the 3

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

I feel like there was a reason I townread Titus but I don't remember. Can you obvtown Titus or remind my Pooky?

she probly doesnt attack me like this if she's scum

her posts reflect a willful ignorance about the game state that doesn't seem faked - if she had a scum PT to look at I can't imagine she would be this clueless about what's happened already in the game.

+1

Titus is very obviously town here. Absolutely anyone with any decent meta on her can verify that.

I am afraid you have me at a disadvantage. I am one of the least metable players on site, and I don't even try to hide my meta. That's because meta is usually shit unless personality driven.

That being said, I can see a Fred Taylor link. Taylor would absolutely ignore valid points on Marashu in the last game. This makes me think she just hyper defends her partners as a matter of personality. Comments?

You don’t seem to have any agenda, which I think is highly town indicative for you.
Can you post a link to that game? Actually she only has two completed scumgames, so I’ll just find Marashu on the playerlist.

[Titus]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84335

[Gloria Cleary]

@MC,are you not reading my posts? Because I unvoted. I’m null on Fred and I think Pooky and Shelley are probably town.

Yours is the vote I'm least worried about of the 3

Pooky sounds both irritated and amused by the srs on him rather than AtEing about it, which is more his scum meta.

Wrt Shelley, I don’t find her scummy but I don’t have much familiarity with her play.

[Titus]

@MC,are you not reading my posts? Because I unvoted. I’m null on Fred and I think Pooky and Shelley are probably town.

Yours is the vote I'm least worried about of the 3

Pooky sounds both irritated and amused by the srs on him rather than AtEing about it, which is more his scum meta.

Wrt Shelley, I don’t find her scummy but I don’t have much familiarity with her play.

Here's the problem I have. Pooky and Taylor as possible scum but are they really theater?

[Noraa]

nah i think its a bad wagon, but this whole time ive been saying theres probably a better than random chance noraa flips scum, just not enough of a chance that she deserved the pressure shes under. its whatever, but its kinda dumb.

So, Tayl0r Swift, you thought that there is a better than random chance that Noraa flips scum, but you townread her?

Fred is right here. @Noraa what do you think about 316?

Don't really remember seeing this post but looking at it specifically rn ... it really do be a bit fishy fish :/
I am still a bit paranoid that Taylor is low-key giving me a town pass for no reason. I mean I asked for reasons and there weren't really any ....
But also like if I remember correctly, she kinda did that as well in random facts were she was vt.
she's being fencesitty but then her vibe also reminds me of OTD and random facts(both she was town).
But then the town pass is reminding me more of trials(she was scum) than random facts
and now im just ..... idk.