Death Curse

[Gloria Cleary]

I think Fred could be scum sure, but I'm not currently convinced by it and I really want to go S>T>S today. But if no one can see LLD or Pooky as options then I guess we will flip there? If we go town Fred to town Noraa it'll really suck though.

Yeah, that’s my concern too but we can’t control any of that and the smartest option is to go with your strongest srs. We should never allow what happened D1 to happen again. We hit three towns because some people voted Toog despite not sr him and then he and Vax made bad decisions.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if MC is town we're basically doomed:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84640

[Gloria Cleary]

mmm. Sure.
Personally not willing to go there today (somewhat obviously).
Other people can discuss the Pookie murder if they want.

I don't truly see an issue with his votes without flips. in those areas.
I absolutely don't know whether Pooky is overly defensive as one alignment than as another.
I will give you that it is weird that everyone isn't town reading you at this point.
But it's fairly close to universal. I'd hard defend you and think it would be a scum claim if you got scrolled tbh. Good for you if you're scum.

Yeah, that concerns me about Tayl0r’s reads. Neither MC nor Titus should be considered possible scum. The very fact that Tayl0r thinks this, is that I’m not going to follow her reads, even if she was right on the three flips and Noraa.

[Adorable]

Noraa.
Get on the wagon.

why tho? I mean Murder ..... didnt have the hottest solve yesterday but I mean so? I believe he brought up a valid point. The SRs from Fred on me are hot garbage. I agree with that. They seem opportunistic. I agree with that as well. Nothing else he has said has made him look anything but bad. I agree. He bad. He scummy. So?

From what I could tell in his other games, he's a juicy LHF and everyone jumped on him too fast. Legit I saw that wagon building up and I was like "Oh god Noraa#2 is charging in"

Are you saying here you read Fred as a scummy town? Earlier you said you would be down for a Fred wagon saying he is shady and did your read on him change?

I have a headache the size of a small island nation.

Is this going to be taylor's magnum opus? *Checks role Pm* Nope.

@Fidget, @Gloria, Strongest scum read?

@gloria I think I addressed Fred's tone.

@Shellyc: Shelving discussion, need to secure scum death and then I can fidget around. Might hurt teamwork but we'll see.

@Theta, you can't?

its possible that im backwards on you and pooky. i do think one of you is scum but if i really am backwards then im still, perhaps more, confident in titus, fidget, and uno. i think if you and pooky are both town then the last two scum are murdercat and shelly.

I’m going to address other posts but you may join the Toog and MC club for having some bad reads here, primarily Titus and MC.

I think MC is very likely town, because he’s clearly sorting and that 180 on Noraa and reconsidering of LLD, don’t make a lot of sense coming from scim, and based off Titus’ clearly not having any agenda, tone and meta, I’d probably be willing to eat LLD’s hat if she’s scum here. I don’t know about Fidget or Uno. When I clicked Titus’ link and ISO’d you, I also did a brief skim of other players in this game. What I found was that Adorable clearly doesn’t know Noraa’s meta because she definitely did put pressure on players in that game. Shelley and especially Fidget seem kind of different here but I don’t know if that’s AI.

That's what I said earlier and Noraa is putting pressure in this game. I did not read her completed games and I only quickly skimmed 2 of her scum games and 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like. In 2 of her scum games I quickly skimmed she used by the lines of, "I would like to put pressure or I will put some pressure on you." When I quickly skimmed through 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like, she did not mention the word pressure when she placed her votes.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't feel comfortable voting there with Pooky tbh.

@Pooky, why did your LLD read change? And if you’re no longer hard tr her, then why aren’t you questioning your Noraa read?

she disappeared and i dont think she cares about the game anymore. its not AI but it's whatever.

i dont think what I think of noraa matters since apparently every1 thinks shes town so its w/e

[MURDERCAT]

if MC is town we're basically doomed:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84640

Lol there are plenty of games I've played bad in not sure why you linked that one

[Gloria Cleary]

Ok ShadeCat

tell me which vote of mine you find suspicious and why

go

Are we doing this again? I think I have a cold so I'm going to go lay down but I'll give you one.

This doesn't feel like a genuine question. The point is that you are kind of sitting around without really making hard pushes after the beginning of the game with your push on Noraa. You have reads but it doesn't feel like you are working to get people on your side. It feels kind of performative to me, like you are not actually that interested in eliming the people you are SRing.

That’s probably town indicative though I think. Are you seriously suggesting that if Pooky tried to hard ram through either a Tayl0r or Noraa wagon, you’d tr him for it? His apathy is town indicative not the other way around. Scum!him would be trying to hard drive town wagons. He’s really not doing much to push a scum wincon. I would be a lot more suspicious of the players that are doing this then ones that seem apathetic.

[Noraa]

Noraa.
Get on the wagon.

why tho? I mean Murder ..... didnt have the hottest solve yesterday but I mean so? I believe he brought up a valid point. The SRs from Fred on me are hot garbage. I agree with that. They seem opportunistic. I agree with that as well. Nothing else he has said has made him look anything but bad. I agree. He bad. He scummy. So?

From what I could tell in his other games, he's a juicy LHF and everyone jumped on him too fast. Legit I saw that wagon building up and I was like "Oh god Noraa#2 is charging in"

Are you saying here you read Fred as a scummy town? Earlier you said you would be down for a Fred wagon saying he is shady and did your read on him change?

I have a headache the size of a small island nation.

Is this going to be taylor's magnum opus? *Checks role Pm* Nope.

@Fidget, @Gloria, Strongest scum read?

@gloria I think I addressed Fred's tone.

@Shellyc: Shelving discussion, need to secure scum death and then I can fidget around. Might hurt teamwork but we'll see.

@Theta, you can't?

its possible that im backwards on you and pooky. i do think one of you is scum but if i really am backwards then im still, perhaps more, confident in titus, fidget, and uno. i think if you and pooky are both town then the last two scum are murdercat and shelly.

I’m going to address other posts but you may join the Toog and MC club for having some bad reads here, primarily Titus and MC.

I think MC is very likely town, because he’s clearly sorting and that 180 on Noraa and reconsidering of LLD, don’t make a lot of sense coming from scim, and based off Titus’ clearly not having any agenda, tone and meta, I’d probably be willing to eat LLD’s hat if she’s scum here. I don’t know about Fidget or Uno. When I clicked Titus’ link and ISO’d you, I also did a brief skim of other players in this game. What I found was that Adorable clearly doesn’t know Noraa’s meta because she definitely did put pressure on players in that game. Shelley and especially Fidget seem kind of different here but I don’t know if that’s AI.

That's what I said earlier and Noraa is putting pressure in this game. I did not read her completed games and I only quickly skimmed 2 of her scum games and 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like. In 2 of her scum games I quickly skimmed she used by the lines of, "I would like to put pressure or I will put some pressure on you." When I quickly skimmed through 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like, she did not mention the word pressure when she placed her votes.

uhhhhh ur gonna SR me for how I word things? That's kinda bad to begin with plus those are prolly outdated or something anyways cuz im overgamed which means I rack up games really fast. No, my light SR on Fred is there. Never called him town. I just believe there is that possibility and my SR there is weak anyways so eh.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Lol there are plenty of games I've played bad in not sure why you linked that one

it just finished and i thought it was funny

[Gloria Cleary]

nah i just think it's funny that I was right and you're wrong and you go afk and then come back and try to lecture me on working towards a town wincon its wild

Working towards getting townies to vote with you is working towards a town wincon IMO, even if you end up being wrong.

But he has been pushing his srs and gotten sr for that? It really doesn’t make a lot of sense what you’re saying here. If I rightly or wrongly have a strong sr and I keep experiencing pushback and getting shouted down. I’m obviously going to back off of it. I think if scum, Pooky would need to get miselims and care a lot less about that.

[Gloria Cleary]

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

I think we hit two town in that case. I think both you and Pooky are town, not sure about Fidget. I also think Pooky would give the scroll to Tayl0r and not you.

[Noraa]

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

I think we hit two town in that case. I think both you and Pooky are town, not sure about Fidget. I also think Pooky would give the scroll to Tayl0r and not you.

Yeah I dont want this anymore. Recently a strong TR on Pooky has appeared so im not down for pooky and me dying the same day cuz then that would be max one scum(the third slot)

[Gloria Cleary]

If Pooky is scum, probably me or MUSH gets shot. If Pooky is town I think taylor gets shot.

My money’s on the latter.

[Gloria Cleary]

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

i like this idea. we get a ton of info and are almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum. even if its only one scum, thats the info we need to set up tomorrow.

That’s obviously not going to happen, Pooky is almost certainly shooting you, not Noraa.

[MURDERCAT]

Clearly we aren't shooting Pooky, I'd rather hear about who is scum with Fred if Fred is red

[Gloria Cleary]

scum pooky would give to me anyways cuz im currently a universal TR

If Pooky is scum, probably me or MUSH gets shot. If Pooky is town I think taylor gets shot.

Are you and Tayl0r reading the game?

[MURDERCAT]

Are you and Tayl0r reading the game?

Are you literally agreeing with me in you last post?

[Gloria Cleary]

Pooky will you hand to me?

nah i'll give it to murdercat so I can talk shit to him in the dead thread after I flip green.

big true

one last chance for you to hit a scum on your way out otherwise Im gonna call you mister 0-4 forever

Wow, are you actually serious about this? Are you actually trying to get yourself killed? Haven’t you been saying you want to kill Tayl0r, so why would you want to give it to an obvious townie?

[Gloria Cleary]

why would I hit somebody I SR when I can hit somebody who annoys me

Dafuq?

[Gloria Cleary]

bc I was dead set on just spite killing LLD

that was day 1

this is day 2 and if murdercatto gets me scrolled that would be 3 greens he's gotten scrolled. So either he's scum and deserves to die or he's town who is basically playing for the scum team and deserves to die.

Why do I think that wholever is scum is laughing in the scum PT and letting town just cannibalise itself?

[Gloria Cleary]

the instant we start looking at something other than fred the thread is active again. hmm

bruh are you trying to tell me that Murder, spooky, and I are the solve here?

not you. maybe murder sorta. pooky and bell? sure. they were non-presences in the thread until now

How are you sr both murder and Pooky?

[Noraa]

Why do I think that wholever is scum is laughing in the scum PT and letting town just cannibalise itself?

The whole scum team probably laughed their ass off while I was getting wagoned day 1 >:(

[Gloria Cleary]

I present you with: some of my reads. composed while I'm space braining on my new meds

Taylor - TL, randomly defensive, seems to be sticking to guns. Smart enough to not create those specific associative tells imo.
Noraa - SL, can't forgive the over-defensiveness earlier and response to drilled, have considered play since and downgraded.
UNOwen - scum. Previous post details this somewhere.
Mush - Town - seems proactive
Lady - Town - want to see more from her, and hope she's well soon <3
Shelly - TL, slot doesn't sit well with me on interactions still but the response to the hurt seemed genuine to me.
MC - Not sure, overconfident in reads.
Pooky - SL, slot isn't sitting well with me, seems to be mostly shitposting and taunting.
Lapsa - SL, What the smeg even is this slot.
Theta - Null Seems rather middle of the road to me.
Fred - scum. Zden was lean, freds entrance was... well I had to triple check when they came in because it's like they were always here, and its 3 straight in at taylor.
Bell - TL. Reads well to me. Should probably go look at the points made against them at some point.
Fidget - Honestly, haven't been paying attention.
Gloria - See above.
Adorable - Forgot about them


pedit

I think pooky's town. I feel like pooky has a kind of playful vibe when they are scum.

Pooky seems quite playful to me.

Not tr this.

[Gloria Cleary]

Spoiler:

MUSH what is it about Fred you think is so bad? I admit I've been skimming a bit but it seemed like it was the empty push on Noraa with no real scum hunting. Was there more than that?

I was doing catchup, so I put this off. Fortunately, it was only 4 god damned pages in two hours for fuck's sake I thought we dealt with this shit--

AHEM.

So, there's the empty garbage push on Noraa. One thing you missed about it is it has no coherent point: it defends Tayl0r townreading Noraa to Noraa then votes Noraa -- like, where's this coming from? What's the angle, where's the destination?

Then there's the fact that Fred dodges most real confrontation. As someone else mentioned about Pooky recently (name already gone) but in a different way, Fred's doing this avoidant thing -- laser focus on my target, if I engage with someone challenging me I'm going to deflect it or dismiss it.

Fred has no reads, also. Like, uh, not literally no reads but basically no reads. Shall we ISO? Let's ISO.

--Comes in hard on easy miselimination Noraa.
--Doesn't even cast shade when people confront him. No engagement except deflection. No explanation of the reasoning for the push given.
--Questions shelly a little bit. Barely at all. Deflates the moment shelly responds. No explanation for the questioning given.
--Votes Tayl0r for not responding to the weakest push I've ever seen -- at first I thought it was a naked vote with an unrelated quote attached by accident. Weak pressure maintained.
--Explicitly shrugs about Flea's ISO.
--Finally posts a reads list where I, Gloria, and Fidget are town, Tayl0r and Noraa are scum, and everyone else is a shrug.
--Seriously, consider the absolute emptiness, the vapidness of that readslist. Holy shit. No explanation given for /any/ of these, by the way. Gloria floated a town Fred idea at some point along the line, so maybe that has something to do with it? Garbo reads. Absolutely trash.
--Mention of a reaction test on Tayl0r, I GUESS? Like, let me remind you the vote is for townreading LLD.
--Noraa to null because, uh, Gloria and Fidget say so I guess. To slightly paraphrase on account of I just closed the ISO around when I realized this might be useful to have here: "You've convinced me this read was for bad reasons".
--Denies shelly's literal depiction of the events around the Noraa read. No explanation given.
--Finally townreads LLD for, um, "a different reason". No explanation given. This is a recurring theme, huh?
--Returns to badly putting weight on Noraa and Tayl0r because Flea reminded him that he said stuff and then sort of let it drop. (The questions asked are technically about different posts but the thrust of the argument is damn near identical.)

And that is the entirety of Fred's ISO that actually matters. The whole thing. It's all there. Check for yourself if you don't believe me.

So, on top of that, I have some meta around Fred -- who I incorrectly scumread for very different reasons in our last game together. Meta's garbage, but I know I have weaknesses. I use meta to guide my hand when it comes to mis-reading players I've got history with. The meta is basically that in our last game: Fred spread pressure out, got lost in mechanics speculation, did a bad job of appearing town but approached the game with a solving mindset, took a big-picture approach, had trouble backing down from a challenge, remained engaged (but initially disinterested). Here we see small-balling, lack of engagement with expression of interest (there's a general disconnect there, regardless of meta), active-lurking, refusal to directly respond to challenges, no mechanics-spec despite a front-of-thread focus and the high mechanics-spec make-up of that area of the thread.

Make sense now? For the record, I'm not PEDITing a damn thing, I'll reread any posts after I get this out, because it took ages to type up.

That’s very compelling. I actually think meta reads are correct like 65% -70% of the time.

Okay, I’m willing to vote there.

[Gloria Cleary]

ebwop

pedit

I think pooky's town. I feel like pooky has a kind of playful vibe when they are scum.

Pooky seems quite playful to me.

You and I must have extremely different definitions of “playful” and that’s not even a valid basis for that read. It’s also inaccurate.

@Bell, Flea, Fred and maybe Fidget? but I’ll trust MUSH on her Fred meta read.