Death Curse

[shellyc]

murder is weirding me out a bit with the progression on fred. first murder stands up to the push there and then gives in to bell for weak reasoning, can murder pls expand on that trajectory

[shellyc]

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

i like this idea. we get a ton of info and are almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum. even if its only one scum, thats the info we need to set up tomorrow.

this sounds pretty scummy and opportunistic imo
pooky -> noraa -> fidget will not work considering noraa is prob!scum and will not pass to fidget

Fixed bbcode error -Hectic

[shellyc]

I think Pooky's disillusionment is real, don't want to scroll him.

I'm going to call Pooky provisional town for revealing the source of the thread-spamming shitposting energy. Fair. This game does sort of suck right now. Don't mistake me for apathetic though, I'm exhausted and sickly and recovering from the 31st.

Tayl0r says the thread comes to life as soon as the focus shifts off of Fred and like ... no. The only difference is Pooky and Bell coming back to life after a while of quiet time. Don't believe me? Tally who posts how much on each page for the past 10 pages. You can extend this as far back as you like to prove my point. We have two hyper-posters and two who can be induced to hyper-post fairly easily (shelly and Noraa), that is all this is. If you call this indicative, Pooky, Bell, Shelly, Noraa are the solve and we just have to find the last one. Which is laughable.

Also, I'd like to remind Tayl0r that I made a rather loud and aggressive request to /reduce the shitposting/ that it is very possible Pooky and Bell were responding to -- since, you know, they were /by far/ the majority of fluff garbage oneliners in the thread and they stopped near dead almost immediately after I started lashing out, which would indeed be suspicious timing if we were looking for people who wanted the other players to be able to enjoy the game instead of scum.


PEDIT: In this game, it seems like players can absolutely sit around with a thumb up their ass all game long and get townreads for nothing. Adorable and Flea have been coasting on near-zero content for ages, and everytime someone pushes them it dies out too fast to matter because they don't respond for 5+ pages if they ever do at all. Sorry, MURDERCAT, I think you're thinking of some other game.

hmmmmm
why do you think pooks is town for spamposting etc? that seems fairly weak reasoning

[shellyc]

I think Pooky's disillusionment is real, don't want to scroll him.

I'm going to call Pooky provisional town for revealing the source of the thread-spamming shitposting energy. Fair. This game does sort of suck right now. Don't mistake me for apathetic though, I'm exhausted and sickly and recovering from the 31st.

Tayl0r says the thread comes to life as soon as the focus shifts off of Fred and like ... no. The only difference is Pooky and Bell coming back to life after a while of quiet time. Don't believe me? Tally who posts how much on each page for the past 10 pages. You can extend this as far back as you like to prove my point. We have two hyper-posters and two who can be induced to hyper-post fairly easily (shelly and Noraa), that is all this is. If you call this indicative, Pooky, Bell, Shelly, Noraa are the solve and we just have to find the last one. Which is laughable.

Also, I'd like to remind Tayl0r that I made a rather loud and aggressive request to /reduce the shitposting/ that it is very possible Pooky and Bell were responding to -- since, you know, they were /by far/ the majority of fluff garbage oneliners in the thread and they stopped near dead almost immediately after I started lashing out, which would indeed be suspicious timing if we were looking for people who wanted the other players to be able to enjoy the game instead of scum.


PEDIT: In this game, it seems like players can absolutely sit around with a thumb up their ass all game long and get townreads for nothing. Adorable and Flea have been coasting on near-zero content for ages, and everytime someone pushes them it dies out too fast to matter because they don't respond for 5+ pages if they ever do at all. Sorry, MURDERCAT, I think you're thinking of some other game.

hmmmmm
why do you think pooks is town for spamposting etc? that seems fairly weak reasoning

didn't mean to quote uno but
ftr this kind of means mush!town if pooky is town and I'm right because scum would be looking to miselim there today

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I am asking Bell to prove that I am pretending to scum hunt. Asking me to prove myself as town without a case is like asking a suspect to prove their innocence when you have no evidence to convict them.

As for me being reactive, yeah, I am. What is your point?

Postscript: I am working on a post in response to MUSHSHAGANA'S first argument for me being scum in post 3637.

mafia isn't a court trial
i'd expect town!you to be much more proactive than here ftr, especially with a first day T->T->T pass

How am I supposed to prove that I am not pretending to scumhunt?

If you want one of these impossible things to prove, prove that you aren't attempting to trap me with this post.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Response to MUSHSHAGANA's first argument that I am scum in post 4637:

"So there's the garbage empty push on Noraa. One thing you missed about it is it has no coherent point: it defends Tayl0r townreading Noraa to Noraa then votes Noraa -- like, where's this coming from? What's the angle, where's the destination?"

In this post I intend to show that I wasn't pushing Noraa but was, instead questioning her reads.

I also include new questions to Noraa and seek answers to one of my old, forgotten questions buried under hundreds of posts.

We'll start with my very first posts in this game and go through all the posts in which I push Noraa.

My first post's premise is that there isn't a reason for Noraa to switch her read on Tayl0r Swift to null from a townread when Tayl0r Swift started to townread her for what I saw (and still see) to be believable reasons. I have not made any conclusions from this because I don't know why Noraa was even townreading Tayl0r Swift to begin with, so I don't know if she had good reason to drop the read.

After that, I challenge Noraa's scumread of Adorable. Noraa, get back to me on this.

Presently, as I read Noraa's answer to my first question, I find myself having a problem with the answer. Noraa claims that Tayl0r Swift used the same thing on her twice in a row, stating "Ok and do you think a scum would use the same thing on me two times in a row? yes I'm stupid but I'm not that stupid. Firstly, I would like to know if you, Noraa, think that scum would use the same thing on you two times in a row. Then, I have some follow up questions that I will present once you have answered that question.

I believe that answers the first two of your questions, but for the third, that will need to wait, because I never arrived at the destination and revealing the destination before we arrive there would make the questions completely pointless and reduce my avenues of inquiry.

Postscript: More will come in several hours, as I have some lessons coming up in half an hour.

[shellyc]

I am asking Bell to prove that I am pretending to scum hunt. Asking me to prove myself as town without a case is like asking a suspect to prove their innocence when you have no evidence to convict them.

As for me being reactive, yeah, I am. What is your point?

Postscript: I am working on a post in response to MUSHSHAGANA'S first argument for me being scum in post 3637.

mafia isn't a court trial
i'd expect town!you to be much more proactive than here ftr, especially with a first day T->T->T pass

How am I supposed to prove that I am not pretending to scumhunt?

If you want one of these impossible things to prove, prove that you aren't attempting to trap me with this post.

tell me which post contained game advancing content from your iso because you haven't given any.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Check the post previous to your last post.

[shellyc]

Response to MUSHSHAGANA's first argument that I am scum in post 4637:

"So there's the garbage empty push on Noraa. One thing you missed about it is it has no coherent point: it defends Tayl0r townreading Noraa to Noraa then votes Noraa -- like, where's this coming from? What's the angle, where's the destination?"

In this post I intend to show that I wasn't pushing Noraa but was, instead questioning her reads.

I also include new questions to Noraa and seek answers to one of my old, forgotten questions buried under hundreds of posts.

We'll start with my very first posts in this game and go through all the posts in which I push Noraa.

My first post's premise is that there isn't a reason for Noraa to switch her read on Tayl0r Swift to null from a townread when Tayl0r Swift started to townread her for what I saw (and still see) to be believable reasons. I have not made any conclusions from this because I don't know why Noraa was even townreading Tayl0r Swift to begin with, so I don't know if she had good reason to drop the read.

After that, I challenge Noraa's scumread of Adorable. Noraa, get back to me on this.

Presently, as I read Noraa's answer to my first question, I find myself having a problem with the answer. Noraa claims that Tayl0r Swift used the same thing on her twice in a row, stating "Ok and do you think a scum would use the same thing on me two times in a row? yes I'm stupid but I'm not that stupid. Firstly, I would like to know if you, Noraa, think that scum would use the same thing on you two times in a row. Then, I have some follow up questions that I will present once you have answered that question.

I believe that answers the first two of your questions, but for the third, that will need to wait, because I never arrived at the destination and revealing the destination before we arrive there would make the questions completely pointless and reduce my avenues of inquiry.

Postscript: More will come in several hours, as I have some lessons coming up in half an hour.

narrative defense
summarising the game isn't a defense, and pointing out that you did things is useless as scum can fake reads. it's the point that none of these things contribute to the gamestate and further the game or even reach conclusions matter.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I guess you missed the point. MUSHSHAGANA claims that push is empty and I am explaining how it isn't. He wonders where is this coming from, what is the angle, and what is the destination. I answer all this in that post and also, follow through on some posts I forgot about.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Insert post 4730 by Fredrick A Campbell

narrative defense
summarising the game isn't a defense, and pointing out that you did things is useless as scum can fake reads. it's the point that none of these things contribute to the gamestate and further the game or even reach conclusions matter.

Also, I am narrating what was going on in my head, not something that is already public.

If you had read my post, I wasn't summarising the game, I was going through the content of the posts about Noraa I made and publicising my intent so that it is less opaque and more semi-translucent.

Sure, pointing out that I did things is useless, which is why I didn't do that.

"it's the point that none of these things contribute to the gamestate and further the game or even reach conclusions matter."
And that is precisely what I was debunking.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Insert post 4729 by Fredrick A Campbell
tell me which post contained game advancing content from your iso because you haven't given any.

Also, if I responded to Bell's assertion that I am pretending to scumhunt by pointing out game advancing content from my iso, that wouldn't be an appropriate response. I am aware you do not consider the post I referred you to as game advancing content, so let me point you to another.

There you go

If you want to say any of the posts there didn't advance the game, please specify which post you are referring to, so I could generously explain how the game moved forward as a consequence of this post.

[Tayl0r Swift]

mmm. Sure.
Personally not willing to go there today (somewhat obviously).
Other people can discuss the Pookie murder if they want.

I don't truly see an issue with his votes without flips. in those areas.
I absolutely don't know whether Pooky is overly defensive as one alignment than as another.
I will give you that it is weird that everyone isn't town reading you at this point.
But it's fairly close to universal. I'd hard defend you and think it would be a scum claim if you got scrolled tbh. Good for you if you're scum.

Yeah, that concerns me about Tayl0r’s reads. Neither MC nor Titus should be considered possible scum. The very fact that Tayl0r thinks this, is that I’m not going to follow her reads, even if she was right on the three flips and Noraa.

i dont think MC is scum. i think if {pooky, shelly, bell} contains 0 scum then id get very paranoid about MC and wanna look there next. this is nothing like town!titus from what ive seen. theres none of the fire. i get that shes busy but this isnt what i expect.

[Tayl0r Swift]

How about we go pooky -> me -> fidget?
I wanna take out two SRs of mine in one go.

i like this idea. we get a ton of info and are almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum. even if its only one scum, thats the info we need to set up tomorrow.

That’s obviously not going to happen, Pooky is almost certainly shooting you, not Noraa.

its just as good if pooky shoots me.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Nora, Pooky and MC are all town.

Iffy on Tayl0r especially if either/both Fred/Flea flip scum.

what do i have to do with flea?

[Bell]

i hate freds tone fwiw, a whole bunch of floundering after being tunnelled on bell. I want to jump back on and leash town!fred

4717 sounds scummy imo. "prove it" gives off major caught for the wrong reasons vibes, and instead of having a mindset to prove himself as town, fred is being reactive

VOTE: Fredrick

I am asking Bell to prove that I am pretending to scum hunt. Asking me to prove myself as town without a case is like asking a suspect to prove their innocence when you have no evidence to convict them.

As for me being reactive, yeah, I am. What is your point?

Postscript: I am working on a post in response to MUSHSHAGANA'S first argument for me being scum in post 3637.

...You want me to prove you're pretending to scum hunt?

@Taylor, do you still think Fred is town given his recent posts?

[Bell]

Nora, Pooky and MC are all town.

Iffy on Tayl0r especially if either/both Fred/Flea flip scum.

what do i have to do with flea?

I'm not sure if Gloria has access to my notes PT.
But it sure looks like she does.

[Tayl0r Swift]

id like to formally retract my fred townread

[Fidget]

I am asking Bell to prove that I am pretending to scum hunt. Asking me to prove myself as town without a case is like asking a suspect to prove their innocence when you have no evidence to convict them.

As for me being reactive, yeah, I am. What is your point?

Postscript: I am working on a post in response to MUSHSHAGANA'S first argument for me being scum in post 3637.

mafia isn't a court trial
i'd expect town!you to be much more proactive than here ftr, especially with a first day T->T->T pass

Even if Fred is a replacement who is clearly having trouble getting his footing? What makes you so sure we don't see this from town!Fred as well?

I am mostly curious to hear your reasoning than anything, because I think it could be scum indictative.

Pooky - SL, slot isn't sitting well with me, seems to be mostly shitposting and taunting.

notably scum!pooky sounds more friendly/likeable/etc

where do you think the shitposting is happening? and why is it scummy? policy all spammers is terrible

I, too, am reading Pooky's prickliness as towny.

I notice while reading through it feels like some of Fred comments don't seem important to me, but have the potential to seem important to him. Either he is having trouble scumhunting as Bell says, or maybe I am just on a different wave length. Here's what I mean for example:

thats uncalled for

If you were offended by the phrase "you aren't this dumb," it is rather strange.

This doesn't seem like a very important observation, but perhaps Fred is hinting at that he finds Taylor's reaction fake and that's his way of conveying that.

I see a lot of potential for the awkward-feel just flipping scum, but it is also a pretty easy thing to jump on. I bet I could find a bunch of things to attack for being "unhelpful" if I wanted to.

[Fidget]

That's what I said earlier and Noraa is putting pressure in this game. I did not read her completed games and I only quickly skimmed 2 of her scum games and 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like. In 2 of her scum games I quickly skimmed she used by the lines of, "I would like to put pressure or I will put some pressure on you." When I quickly skimmed through 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like, she did not mention the word pressure when she placed her votes.

uhhhhh ur gonna SR me for how I word things? That's kinda bad to begin with plus those are prolly outdated or something anyways cuz im overgamed which means I rack up games really fast. No, my light SR on Fred is there. Never called him town. I just believe there is that possibility and my SR there is weak anyways so eh.

That Adorable read is batshit crazy

I'll never vote Pooky this game, I feel increasingly confident he wouldn't get this unhappy (or pretend to be this unhappy) as scum

trying to argue that fred is a scum slot doesnt really work either. fred is pretty null and should be scrolled second.

Based on his posts, he’d probably give you the scroll in that case (possibly Noraa?). I really don’t understand this take from you. Why would you want him to get the second scroll and who is your preference for first?

I just realized something really scary. Ok its a theory and idk if its right BUT I feel like scum!Taylor would want her buddy to go second because T -> S -> T makes sure that S -> T -> S doesn't happen.

I like your thinking, although I'm not sure Taylor would do something that 'bold'. Seems a bit high risk for the reward to me, I doubt scum!Taylor can really hope that a blank statement like that changes the scroll order. But I also really don't want to count Fred/Taylor out because that sits very nicely with my reads so mm.

I see Bell's pet theory on Fred/Taylor and Mush's big case on Fred. Is the guy just obvscum and I'm giving him too much of a chance? Lol

(about Flea)

Very interesting that there is exactly, I repeat EXACTLY five SRs. This may be a bad way to judge but generally I find that only careful scum will have exactly the number of scum SRs.

Sounds crazy but could be true actually.

VOTE: Fred

I'm willing to go with you and bell today because I took my shot D1 and missed.

You'll get em next time Murder.

Flea calling Pooky playful is kinda a lol.

Overall I find myself wanting to shoot Adorable a little more, still not decided on Flea, and I really don't want to kill Noraa.

[Fidget]

If any of Murder/Pooky/Noraa get the scroll and they pass it to each other I'm throwing in the towel probably.

As I read the part with Murder casing Pooky (I guess) and Bell begging for Murder to vote fred, I notice that the Fred wagon is stalling hard. It got to.. just 5 votes?

I feel, as I said earlier, a non-bussing game could be really good for scum.

[5]

Fredrick A Campbell:

Bell

,

MUSHSHAGANA

, Flea The Magician,

PookyTheMagicalBear

, UNOwen

[2]

Noraa:

Titus, Adorable

[2]

Tayl0r Swift:

Fredrick A Campbell

, shellyc

[1]

Fidget:

Tayl0r Swift

[1] Adorable:

Theta Alpine

[1] shellyc:

Fidget

[1]

PookyTheMagicalBear:

Noraa

[4] Not Voting:

MURDERCAT

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, Lapsa,

Gloria Cleary

Looking at it with my townreads added in, it seems plausible. I more and more get the feeling Taylor and Fred aren't partnered from their interactions.

I feel inclined to trust Gloria/whoever elses' opinions on Titus being in her town meta.

Adorable does not feel good to me at all.

Shellyc loves to bus, she is all about the towncred. She jumped down Fred's throat very early if I recall correctly. Still hate the reaction to being hurt. But I am not terribly put off by most of her reads and some things make me reconsider. Although when you have a great amount of content, I suppose that is bound to happen.

fred you're online come here

i consider this to be ellitelling btw

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

This is just how I'd expect shelly to talk to a scum partner who's under even moderate fire lol. Not totally convinced yet but this does pique my interest.

i do not really see the case on fredrick myself

Theta just doesn't see merit in the wagon.. I guess. She writes this post by itself as her only comment on the thread. But I wonder, was the heat starting to dissipate when she wrote this?

I think there is a good shot fredrick is town and we are being snowed by strong scum players

i did give reasons. people who are trying to discredit me are quoting a post where i was being sassy.

also this fred wagon is ridiculous. the people on the fred wagon prove that fred is town 90%

Bahahah! Mush/Noraa expressed interest in the wagon around this part too, to be fair. But there was at least 1 maybe 2 townies against it. Theta isn't going against the grain alone.

I am just now realizing I'm purely doing pre-flip associatives on a slot I am not entirely sure is scum. Brilliant job me. But I like what I'm seeing. If my townreads are halfway decent, this is a viable theory on who's scum. There's town on him, it's slow, and Mushy's case isn't half bad. What do I have to fear?

Lapsa is obviously Lapsa and can be whatever alignment. Decent chance one of UNOwen/Flea is a busser in that case (And it's probably obvious which it'd be but I'm about out of time)

Overall I am left with Fred + shelly + Theta/Adorable + UNOwen/Flea + Lapsa/Any Player. It's probably worth noting I still am inclined to think shelly and one of Theta/Adorable is scum even if Fred is town, so not a totally pointless exercise. Reading through has been nice.

I am probably getting a false positive on Theta and it's just Adorable, if I were to guess. The blank "I don't find Fred scummy" with nothing else just felt a bit disingenuous in the context of where the thread was at, I suppose.

Gonna try and form stronger independent opinions on these slots when I get the chance. I hate the way this game looks like it's going to go if we don't eliminate a scum Fred (Pooky, Noraa, Murder killing each other..)

[Fidget]

I just don't care who's bussing who.
Fred's ~probably~ scum to me.
No matter who votes him it doesn't change these odds. You don't know who's scum and who isn't whether a certain player is bussing, sheeping or is scum hunting or making a plan or whatever.

Just vote the scum murder.
Do it for me. *shiny eyes*

This one's for you, Bell.

VOTE: Fred

[MURDERCAT]

murder is weirding me out a bit with the progression on fred. first murder stands up to the push there and then gives in to bell for weak reasoning, can murder pls expand on that trajectory

I shot town. No want shot town. Let mush choose.

[Bell]

Gunna be freaking out all day about election today I suppose.
Slight edge to Biden. Far too close so I can't even pretend to be comfortable.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

i hate freds tone fwiw, a whole bunch of floundering after being tunnelled on bell. I want to jump back on and leash town!fred

4717 sounds scummy imo. "prove it" gives off major caught for the wrong reasons vibes, and instead of having a mindset to prove himself as town, fred is being reactive

VOTE: Fredrick

I am asking Bell to prove that I am pretending to scum hunt. Asking me to prove myself as town without a case is like asking a suspect to prove their innocence when you have no evidence to convict them.

As for me being reactive, yeah, I am. What is your point?

Postscript: I am working on a post in response to MUSHSHAGANA'S first argument for me being scum in post 3637.

...You want me to prove you're pretending to scum hunt?

@Taylor, do you still think Fred is town given his recent posts?

Yes, please.