Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[Uncrowned]

Why Peta?

[Uncrowned]

Idk if she'd try to get Mena out that way though? It seems a bit roundabout instead of just going for a NK? Especially if we're thinking doc wouldn't protect Mena tonight

[lilith2013]

Like why dont i townread you yet ????

I have plenty of theories, but I'm not actually sure you want to hear them

[lilith2013]

I'm not particularly scumreading mena's play either but if I'm responsible for the block, then I don't really see him being a priority NK

Not sure what you think I'm lying about here - the fact that I'm a JK? the fact that I targeted mena? I don't have the ego to lie about either.

[Menalque]

Why Peta?

@me I assume?

3 things basically

(1) DGB was insistent that I and peta were scum as she died -- I strongly believe in listening to dead town as a way to improve performance, you know you can trust them and that they're acting in good faith. she was wrong on me, but might have been right on peta -- the fact I know she was wrong on me makes it harder to trust this read.

(2) I still sort of feel like peta could be pocketing me/white knighting me for the cred today, and I've often noticed that if the entire scumteam /isn't/ trying to misyeet me, you often lean towards TRing those defending you which then gives them the cover after you flip town to say "wait, look, dead person X said I was town, let's get the nasty people who pushed the person who has now flipped town!" there's been enough support for killing me today that I definitely look scummy to at least a few town players -- why don't I look that way to peta. fmpov, it's because I'm being very reasonable and pointing out why the reasons for scum!me are bad. but why is he seeing that but other town players aren't? it might just be that he's playing better this game, but it might be bc he already knows I'm town

(3) he's reluctant to vote TGP despite not thinking I'm scum, while making a point of how TGP coooouuuuuld be scum, and I currently think TGP has high equity and this is a partner-y type of position to take

[Menalque]

I'm not particularly scumreading mena's play either but if I'm responsible for the block, then I don't really see him being a priority NK

well, I'm not scum, so given that there's a reasonable chance I die today anyway for mechanical reasons, would you care to advance a theory now on what happened last night that explains the lack of NK and my living-ness? for instance, who would target me?

[Menalque]

I think there are basically only 3 reasonably possible worlds here, if lil is being honest about her action?

(1) I was JK'd and scum tried to kill me, hence no NK

(2) I was JK'd but it meant nothing bc the doctor targeted skitter(?) and got a save there

(3) scum decided to no-kill for WIFOM reasons

as much as I love the play of (3), and sometimes fantasise about it, I never actually have because the advantages never seem worth it

so fmpov, unless lil is just totally lying about everything, either I was targeted for the NK and lil's JK on me saved me, or it means absolutely nothing and the no-NK is bc the doctor saved elsewhere

it's just irritating it's D2 bc very VERY obviously the doctor shouldn't' claim if we have one, but that's the only way to reconcile things if scum didn't try to NK me

[Uncrowned]

That third point you made is pretty much what I was thinking mena. I'll need to reread his ISO, but I feel like TGP has been the only slot Peta has been a bit more "vague" on in comparison to other slots? Vague might not be the right word. Indecisive?

[Uncrowned]

The 3rd point about Peta I mean lol

[petapan]

I also disagree with this. It’s almost easier to push someone no one else is paying attention to because you don’t actually have to follow through and interact with a wagon in a nuanced way, no? ie how I tried to push pp in jk9++

Idk in my experience i feel like i havent seen scum play it like that super often

that's kind of surprising? because i've seen it plenty even if most of my experience is from Long Ago, i have still seen in 2020 scum ride an obnoxious tunnel on shitlogic and get townread for it because people thought "wow they must really believe this" and ignored how they were basically totally unreceptive to reasoning from anywhere. somewhat surprising that you'd have never seen that sort of play because i don't assume the game has changed

that

much since i've been gone. mostly it's hard for me to believe a town player would be hung up on something so fucking trivial even if they're having a hard time getting into the game

[Menalque]

ducky, can we get a prod on Best Bird pls?

Spoiler:

[davesaz]

Also has anyone actually checked peta's tone where I linked? I feel like it's so obvious but everyone's ignoring it

I think people are ignoring it because it's obviously NAI.
Peta explicitly said "both" to a question of "for the lulz or to get a unique number".
There is no inconsistency there. Just about any number 3 digits or more is pretty much guaranteed to be unique, and there are plenty of funny numbers there. Being dismissive of your attempt to push that as a lie seems like a pretty normal attitude. I commented that I had seen pi to many digits picked as a guaranteed unique + funny number in a previous game.

FWIW I'm not settled on Peta's alignment.

[Menalque]

I'm not interested in doing peta today but if we end up doing TGP instead of me and he flips scum, I would seriously think about doing peta tomorrow

[petapan]

(3) he's reluctant to vote TGP despite not thinking I'm scum, while making a point of how TGP coooouuuuuld be scum, and I currently think TGP has high equity and this is a partner-y type of position to take

i had been saying i thought they were town since day 1 (379, 438) and while some of the points against them are valid they have the feel of being an lhf-ish player so i'm wary. (my hangup i was withholding is that if lilith is scum then tgp's chances of being scum shoot through the roof). granted that is the sort of angle i might take on a partner, but, i'm town this game, so.

[Menalque]

I'm not interested in doing peta today but if we end up doing TGP instead of me and they flip scum, I would seriously think about doing peta tomorrow

ebwop

[lilith2013]

@mena
- I'm responsible for the block and you performed the NK because you were considered to have the most deepwolf potential/least likely to be blocked or tracked (yes I know for the purpose of this exercise you don't want me to include this but I'm including it anyway) -> mena + {infinity/tgp/JV/dunn?} (people who I think have less deepwolf potential and also auto-voted you after I softed, some of them in awkward ways that I think could have been bussing. JV in particular was like "oh is there a red check? I didn't see. where's the red check?")
- I'm responsible for the block and protected you from being killed -> skitter? infinity? idk if it's someone trying to frame town!infinity by killing you because wouldn't they assume that you'd go after infinity D2 anyway? why kill you to get that miselim instead of a PR? both of them being scum together feels a bit too obvious though.
- I'm not responsible for the block at all and doc/rb is out there that is instead
- I'm not responsible for the block but it's because scum (potentially knowing that there is a JK or doc/rb out there because they attempted to draft and didn't get it) intentionally no-killed to make the JK/doc/rb target look like they were the target or killer

[Something_Smart]

My definition of an anti-spew is based on what I define what a spew is. Spew is what a scum does that outs their partner/s. Anti-spew is abusing that to try and out townies and make them seem that they're being spewed as their buddies.

Shouldn't scum always be doing that, though?

[Menalque]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I also just played with TGP and this is what I mean when I say they feel totally different here

[lilith2013]

actually skitter seems to not be considering at all that you could have been the NK target

[davesaz]

oh, we mean different things by "anti-spew"

I guess. I thought mine was the established definition: you're a lost cause, so shut up so you don't give anything else away.

What did you mean?

I interpret that term to be what Flavor Leaf usually tries to do -- lay down false associations to town in an attempt to take some with you.

[Menalque]

papa leaf was one of my first teachers in the way of the scum

[lilith2013]

also on reread I feel like mena/JV could be partners

[Menalque]

@mena
- I'm responsible for the block and you performed the NK because you were considered to have the most deepwolf potential/least likely to be blocked or tracked (yes I know for the purpose of this exercise you don't want me to include this but I'm including it anyway) -> mena + {infinity/tgp/JV/dunn?} (people who I think have less deepwolf potential and also auto-voted you after I softed, some of them in awkward ways that I think could have been bussing. JV in particular was like "oh is there a red check? I didn't see. where's the red check?")
- I'm responsible for the block and protected you from being killed -> skitter? infinity? idk if it's someone trying to frame town!infinity by killing you because wouldn't they assume that you'd go after infinity D2 anyway? why kill you to get that miselim instead of a PR? both of them being scum together feels a bit too obvious though.
- I'm not responsible for the block at all and doc/rb is out there that is instead
- I'm not responsible for the block but it's because scum (potentially knowing that there is a JK or doc/rb out there because they attempted to draft and didn't get it) intentionally no-killed to make the JK/doc/rb target look like they were the target or killer

I like the point about how the frame is less likely bc why not just let me pursue town!infinity on D2 and then kill me after I served my purpose if I was wanted dead (and in fact that's a strat I've explicitly used before as scum), which would maybe imply more directly that infinity is just scum, if I was saved by your JK

do you really think the intentional no-kill is a likely scenario, as in, at all?

kinda lowkey interesting that you didn't consider the implications of me claiming cop D1 in any of this, but I'm not sure in exactly what way

[Menalque]

also on reread I feel like mena/JV could be partners

yes I am well known for distancing with a partner and then completely undermining that by switching to a TR on them

[lilith2013]

where are you townreading them? iirc you distinctly said you weren't when asked