Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[davesaz]

What motivation does Lilith have to lie there?

If Mena flips green do we not just end up suspecting her?

As I'm typing this I realize it's not that simple but it's a risky play nonetheless

Idk

I'm basically i dont townread lilith
I dont scumread mena
Her result matches up on neither side (wrt the credibility of the persok giving it, and scumminess of the person being guiltied)
I cant explain the motivation but like it'a not completely adding up for me

Let's not forget that Pine was active on site but not playing this game. Menalque is the type of player who can attempt to spew a lurkscum slot town with posting that we can't verify until many flips have happened. What I don't know is if lilith knows that or not.

[Menalque]

where are you townreading them? iirc you distinctly said you weren't when asked

oh, right

err, that has changed and I guess I am now

my point still holds about completely undermining that by not sticking to a hardbus/harddistancing if we were partners

[lilith2013]

I like the point about how the frame is less likely bc why not just let me pursue town!infinity on D2 and then kill me after I served my purpose if I was wanted dead (and in fact that's a strat I've explicitly used before as scum), which would maybe imply more directly that infinity is just scum, if I was saved by your JK

do you really think the intentional no-kill is a likely scenario, as in, at all?

eh not really, I'm just throwing out possible scenarios. It's last because I think it's the least likely

kinda lowkey interesting that you didn't consider the implications of me claiming cop D1 in any of this, but I'm not sure in exactly what way

again (? actually not sure if I've said this explicitly) I just assumed that anyone low in the draft pick didn't get a PR, which is why I thought it was safe to JK you in the first place.

[Menalque]

Menalque is the type of player who can attempt to spew a lurkscum slot town with posting that we can't verify until many flips have happened

whadda ya mean, lurkscum slot? this was a nothing slot before I came into it, pine had 4 posts!

[lilith2013]

fml sorry quotes

[lilith2013]

I like the point about how the frame is less likely bc why not just let me pursue town!infinity on D2 and then kill me after I served my purpose if I was wanted dead (and in fact that's a strat I've explicitly used before as scum), which would maybe imply more directly that infinity is just scum, if I was saved by your JK

do you really think the intentional no-kill is a likely scenario, as in, at all?

eh not really, I'm just throwing out possible scenarios. It's last because I think it's the least likely

kinda lowkey interesting that you didn't consider the implications of me claiming cop D1 in any of this, but I'm not sure in exactly what way

again (? actually not sure if I've said this explicitly) I just assumed that anyone low in the draft pick didn't get a PR, which is why I thought it was safe to JK you in the first place.

I think this fixes it

[Menalque]

fml sorry quotes

lol

[lilith2013]

where are you townreading them? iirc you distinctly said you weren't when asked

oh, right

err, that has changed and I guess I am now

my point still holds about completely undermining that by not sticking to a hardbus/harddistancing if we were partners

I didn't really think you were hard distancing

I mean it looks that way from his side during your wagon at the beginning of the day, but that doesn't require you to bus him back?

[lilith2013]

What made you change your read on JV?

[Menalque]

I didn't really think you were hard distancing

I mean it looks that way from his side during your wagon at the beginning of the day, but that doesn't require you to bus him back?

right, exactly

if we were partners, it would look like we were hard distancing, that's my point

incidentally, if I were scum, these are exactly the sorts of posts I would be making to fake-spew JV as one of my partners

[davesaz]

actually skitter seems to not be considering at all that you could have been the NK target

To be fair here I would never consider that either.

[lilith2013]

I didn't really think you were hard distancing

I mean it looks that way from his side during your wagon at the beginning of the day, but that doesn't require you to bus him back?

right, exactly

if we were partners, it would look like we were hard distancing, that's my point

incidentally, if I were scum, these are exactly the sorts of posts I would be making to fake-spew JV as one of my partners

uh... can you ELI5? I don't get what you're trying to say at all

[Menalque]

What made you change your read on JV?

their kind of bad sheepy vote on me, refusal to really engage with me about why I was >rand scum when I tried to talk to them about it, all seem like things scum wouldn't do bc they'd look very bad after I flipped town

and they felt kinda townie when we were jamming about shit after that

[lilith2013]

actually skitter seems to not be considering at all that you could have been the NK target

To be fair here I would never consider that either.

What I'm trying to say is that her mind went straight to "lilith must be lying" instead of like, the other 3 scenarios that mena and I were discussing which are imo more plausible (I mean obviously from my perspective I'm telling the truth, but I don't know why the second most likely scenario to skitter is that I'm lying?)

[Menalque]

I didn't really think you were hard distancing

I mean it looks that way from his side during your wagon at the beginning of the day, but that doesn't require you to bus him back?

right, exactly

if we were partners, it would look like we were hard distancing, that's my point

incidentally, if I were scum, these are exactly the sorts of posts I would be making to fake-spew JV as one of my partners

uh... can you ELI5? I don't get what you're trying to say at all

just pride really, it prob makes more sense to talk about it post-game

I'm saying that if JV and I really were scum together, it wouldn't look like a bad/half-assed bussing job because I'd have told them they'd better fucking commit on the bus if that's the play and I'd be doing my very best to not look associated with them (whereas the way I'm posting about them -- i.e. trying to strongly argue we don't make sense as partners -- is the sort of shit I would do if I really were scum, only I wouldn't do it with my actual partner, I'd do it to a townie who I wanted town to THINK was my partner, in order to help my actual partners)

[Menalque]

like, I'm not gonna argue that I'm a scumgod or anything

but all I'm saying is that I think if there are 3 things I'm good at as scum, they are

(1) having a plan to win
(2) being very aware of how I'm perceived by the other players and very sensitive to that (albeit subtly)
(3) making sure that if I am going down I incriminate innocent townies and don't look like my partners are my partners

and it's just sorta funny that I'm being scumread this game, in a non-mechanical sense, for having supposedly done a really shitty job at the things which I'm actually pretty consistently strong at when I roll scum

I'm not expecting this post to actually make anyone feel better about my slot, but it's funny to me

[TheGoldenParadox]

I just have a real icky feeling about TGP in general tbh

The whole part where they default to Hoopla and then gets on a wagon once one has picked up looks like an attempt to show active voting/hunting although Hoopla hasn't been at the forefront of the game in what feels like forever at this point, like probably 40 pages ago or more?

But then when we have these crucial moments (DGB and Mena now, I'd say) they have almost nothing to say other than getting on the wagon?

there

is

nothing to say
my vote on dgb was because flipping a claimed pgo is protown not only because pgo is negative util but because it removes the possibility of a scum 1-shot vig being in the game so it didn't matter if dgb was a star player because mechanically their slot was proscum even if their claim was true (which it was)

my vote on mena is also mechanical because of lillith's claim

on the off chance mena flips town infinity is probably scum

i was voting hoopla because she is incredibly unlikely to be a PR and therefore a much better lim than anyone in the top half of the draft i have cased her ya know

[TheGoldenParadox]

I'm not sure TGP/Infinity would be together judging by TGP's posting about how everyone should get off the DGB wagon and go after Infinity on D1.

But then again... they ended up going back on that decision almost immediately which is why I'm sussing them in the first place so it could be a possibility.

because dgb claimed pgo lol

[Menalque]

my vote on mena is also mechanical because of lillith's claim

wow, that's convenient!

[Menalque]

do you think there are 2 scum in the 4's, TGP?

[TheGoldenParadox]

this probably isn't the time to start a dunnstral wagon. i'm fine eliminating in {infinity, hoopla, dgb}, but we can't no-elim.

or can we (?) idk but isn't this game at evens or something and odds are better?

she’s always gonna be a liability

Lilith and Golden Paradox have fewer posts than the mod but OK

i

always

have fewer posts than the mod. it doesn't mean i haven't put a lot of content out. your play the last two pages has seemed very weird to me.

that being said, i don't buy dgb scum, and considering that i don't think she'd lie about being such a good townplayer, i'm not on board with eliminating her d1 under any circumstances. like come on, this is just a "eliminate the least charismatic player" (not an attack on you dgb, just that you have written off this game to an extent) and i don't buy this wagon at all. my vote will stay on infinity, and y'all should join me.

Oh there we go again with the "everything's fake" and not believing your lying eyes. You're gaslighting yourself.

Anyhoo it looks like I'm hammered.

I was town and choose PGO because I expected to be NK'd.

Adios amigos

VOTE: dgb

dgb, did you GET pgo?

VOTE: dgb

sorry. no one else above you in the draft took vig, you chose the vig slot, and then took PGO? don't believe it, sorry

VOTE: menal

These were all back to back in their ISO. This does not look natural at all.

i'm good with this elim today.

This also looks real bad, especially considering TGP's play has consisted of "Let's lynch Hoopla" who, as I said, hasn't been the focus of the game in terms of being pressured or wagon since I want to say roughly page 20-30.

The lack of willingness to engage with the wagons, only to jump on at the most opportunistic moment with no comments on either slot (DGB and now Mena) can't be ignored.

This doesn't seem like townplay to me. Even when TGP has been "against" the wagon, they've barely spoken about it and have only either voted someone else or voted on the wagon. There's no other interaction here. No information seeking or real attempts at reads outside of Hoopla

Also forgot to mention but assuming I'm right on this TGP thing, Daves is most likely town.

ineteresting on how you call my votes opportunistic
they're very simply mechanically-driven votes

also by "any circumstances" i meant "any reasonable circumstances" to me, dgb claiming PGO was almost as unexpected as if she outright claimed scum
anyways why would she even take that slot if she hated vig and knew pgo was basically negative utility

[TheGoldenParadox]

my vote on mena is also mechanical because of lillith's claim

wow, that's convenient!

so convenient! a player who is guaranteed to be a power role claimed jailkeeper on a slot that is incredibly unlikely to be nightkilled, and no nightkills occured.

[Menalque]

anyways why would she even take that slot if she hated vig and knew pgo was basically negative utility

obviously bc she thought (correctly) that it was one of the ones that might still be available

also because she said she thought there was a good chance scum might try to kill her on N1 which would let her elim one of them

[Menalque]

my vote on mena is also mechanical because of lillith's claim

wow, that's convenient!

so convenient! a player who is guaranteed to be a power role claimed jailkeeper on a slot that is incredibly unlikely to be nightkilled, and no nightkills occured.

why am I so unlikely to be a NK, TGP

you've played with me

am I not a threat to scum?

[TheGoldenParadox]

I feel like the not wanting to vote out PRs thing is kinda NAI? its LAMISTy and can come from either alignment imo

Their casing on Hoopla does look decent but I do have an issue with it - it's mainly based around game theory and the draft. They've done nothing to progress that read since making it based on Hoopla's play outside of the whole 4s thing that was all talked about during the beginning of the game. I feel like she's posted enough to where, if you were STILL scumreading her (which I assume TGP does considering they voted her now on D2?) you'd think there'd be more substance to it by now.

i don't expect my reads in this game to be great it's filled with players who are much better than i am
but i do think that i can look at someone's play and look at their position in the draft and what they have said to arrive at a reasonable conclusion
hoopla is scum
and i've used a lot of hoopla's actual posting especially her interaction with PP it wasn't JUST the fours thing lol