Death Curse

[Bell]

@LLD how do you want to run this show?

@Gloria: Yeah, it's common for me to always miss someone if I make a list.


@Fidget, I disagree with your assessment. Did I mention he used Taylor as a kind of measuring stick to get his head into the game? It would be pretty crazy if that were true huh.
It's oddly specific.

[Fidget]

Fred scumflip already clears Noraa because he gave the scroll to LLD. There is pretty much no world where they are buddies.

Also for anyone doubting Noraa, you should also keep in mind Fred hard tunneled there to begin his replace-in. And like, all the other reasons half the thread was already TRing Noraa. We don't need an info-flip that helps solve her.

[Gloria Cleary]

Pooky green implicates Tayl0r tremendously, honestly. That whole back and forth smelled like SvT. Says nothing about Noraa though. Also, you have a GIGANTIC ISO and a lot of Day 1 back and forth, there's bound to be good stuff to work with in terms of VCA with you confirmed as green.

This is 100% why LLD should not give the scroll to Noraa. A Fred red flips pretty much confitowns her, so it would be hella stupid to kill a slot that is very likely confirmable post Fred flip.

[Fidget]

@Fidget, I disagree with your assessment. Did I mention he used Taylor as a kind of measuring stick to get his head into the game? It would be pretty crazy if that were true huh.
It's oddly specific.

I remember you saying that, but I can't find where the post is.

I'm open to being wrong on Taylor but I prefer shooting shelly. I suppose Mush makes a good point that Taylor is TSTBS sometimes, but I have only noticed that in the games where she was town. The Trials is my only scum reference for her, and she was very tryhard and generally townread middle-lategame there. In all my games where she was town, she usually did scummy stuff.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm open to being wrong on Taylor but I prefer shooting shelly.

Had Fidget been generally SRing shelly?

[MURDERCAT]

Maybe Fidget Shelly makes less sense then

[Theta Alpine]

i am very confident

which to be perfectly honest
given my past history with reads
probably means i am wrong here

This is also worrying me a little bit given Theta has been tunneling Adorable probably the entire length of the game and yet is hedging her bets at the end.

i mean

i am still very confident in adorable being scum
mentioning that the reads i am this confident in are usually not correct might be seen as hedging my bets
but please do not read it as me saying i think adorable might be town
because i do not think that at the moment

that is to say that this time i think this read is an exception to that pattern
i am just saying that to let town know that in the past this amount of conviction tends to mean i am wrong
even if i do not actually think i am wrong in this case

this is just something i have observed in past games and i feel it is a good idea to let the rest of town now that that pattern exists

though now that we hopefully caught scum then i can probably stop tunneling on adorable after the next flips and look for other possibilities
adorable will remain in lock-scum on my reads indefinitely though
i honestly do not know what would convince me otherwise at this point

[Noraa]

God I'm having such a hard time focusing I feel like this is another version of Roses. I kind of hope Fred flips red but at the same time dont. If he flips red, I'm conftown which I love. But seeing that I'm this unengaged when I'm not even conftown, I have zero idea how lazy I'm gonna become if I become conftown.

[Noraa]

[MURDERCAT]

God I'm having such a hard time focusing I feel like this is another version of Roses. I kind of hope Fred flips red but at the same time dont. If he flips red, I'm conftown which I love. But seeing that I'm this unengaged when I'm not even conftown, I have zero idea how lazy I'm gonna become if I become conftown.

Fred is scum, read his iso and find some scum

[Gloria Cleary]

Irrelevant. Pooky red would remove all doubt there, and I promise you doubt will be cast. If I had anything to bet, I'd wager on it.

How is that irrelevant? LLD’s been gunning for Noraa the entire game and Fred obviously knows this, so in what world does scum!Fred give the scroll to the one player most likely to take out his buddy?

[Noraa]

Fred is scum, read his iso and find some scum

ty murder <3

[Gloria Cleary]

Maybe Fidget Shelly makes less sense then

Maybe it’s really that simple that scum!Fred thought the best way to take out two townies: LLD/Noraa, was to hit LLD first because I’m not even sure who Noraa would have likely hit.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Gotta be real with you here folks, I think the scumteam misjudged LLD if they thought she was just going to wreck Noraa and toss the game out. Best angle for a miselimination with Red Fred is inside of Bell, Gloria, MAYBE Fidget?, and Tayl0r/Pooky (whichever one is town, because I'm convinced that there is one and ONLY one green in there). LLD tossing the scroll to Noraa would be foolish as hell here.

...

Actually, hold up, let's do some quick sanity checks.

Shelly was clearly being defended, or I'd have caught a case of curse.
Fidget may have been getting defended, or else Adorable might have remained the target. (I feel like Adorable may also have been always intended to be swapped off of and could be a red slot.)
MURDERCAT would have smashed Shelly in a heartbeat.
Pooky would have hit Tayl0r.
Tayl0r would have hit ... not Pooky.

Okay, let's check Tayl0r's reads here. Who WOULD she have hit, based on what we can see?

Shelly and UNOwen, it's looking like. Bell was possible before the Fred flip was recognized for what it was. Fidget's a possible afterwards. Tayl0r's been scumreading Pooky but rarely emphasizes it except to force Pooky out of the limelight. First name mentioned in each of the past few reads list is Shelly's.

So Tayl0r's reads are following the rest of town's on Shelly. This also predates the Fred flip.
So I go back through and try and look for conflicts there. Scum theater, SvT, TvT feeling? And so on.

Oh, would you look at that, there's a lack-luster dustup near the very beginning of the Fred wagon between Shelly and Tayl0r. Shelly's attempt to derail. Well, it worked on me, apparently -- forgot the context and just remembered the vague discontentment there. It goes nowhere, does nothing, then Shelly tries to spearhead a wagon on Fidget, it goes nowhere and does nothing. Tayl0r tries to argue that this doesn't count as organized resistance so Fred clearly cannot be red. And then the hammer, and whoopsie, there goes Fred.

Way too strong of alignment assumption WRT Fred, garbage assertions, CONSTANT garbage assertions. After the hammer, even stronger garbage assertion based on nothing but "well, Fred's wagon sucked too bad to be town", which was trash when almost all of the obvtowns in the game were on board, and it was being most heavily argued for by an obvtown (even though I hate that's the case for me). Like, "bring out the industrial strength air fresheners" garbo bullshit here. And then Fred basically spoils the flip and Tayl0r ditches it all instantly.

Okay. Time out. Listen.

If I was a townie who townread someone THAT hard, I'd rationalize for them. I'd rationalize for them and make a hell of a lot of good arguments. I'd spend all my towncred on trying to recover there, and then some. I'd probably go down swinging for them. If I'm making absolute bullshit up to try and save them in the first place, if I'm assuming absolute certainty where none exists? I'll take it to the wall. I'll knock the wall down and take it further. If nothing else, I'll do it to prove that I wasn't a fucking idiot and anyone could have been taken in as badly as me, because by god is there gonna be egg on face for me.

Tayl0r? Nah, fuck 'em. Here's the new reads, same as the old reads except I have to give Bell a gold star for hitting red.

I take it all back. Yeah, Tayl0r/Shelly/Fred can be the team (minus 2 members TBD) for now.

[Gloria Cleary]

God I'm having such a hard time focusing I feel like this is another version of Roses. I kind of hope Fred flips red but at the same time dont. If he flips red, I'm conftown which I love. But seeing that I'm this unengaged when I'm not even conftown, I have zero idea how lazy I'm gonna become if I become conftown.

Having a player that is pretty much IC is always useful, especially since this is a nightless game.

[MURDERCAT]

Maybe Fidget Shelly makes less sense then

Maybe it’s really that simple that scum!Fred thought the best way to take out two townies: LLD/Noraa, was to hit LLD first because I’m not even sure who Noraa would have likely hit.

Yes I agree with this. I was looking at fidget because I thought fred using a hurt tag instead of a vote for LLD might implicate someone who had failed to weigh in because they were absent from the thread

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Noraa

All his interaction with me was stupid. I'd concluded that a while ago but I'll put this here and in this ISO dive, I won't be addressing anymore of his posts directed at me because there were all stupid. If anyone really needs an explain, I'll be really annoyed and I might do it depending on how much I like u :3

He’s read the game but his focus is on one person, whilst refraining from looking more widely.
His request for attention and then a follow up vote is very vanilla scum play: “here’s my justification for voting you, you ignored me!”

Actually, I have only read some (not all) of the more recent post other than the first 100 posts of this game.

I can see why scum!fred jumps on me. Especially if the scum team is mostly lurkers and no one is telling him the latest info, I can see why scum!Fred skims a few pages and is like OMG I found LHF!!!!!

VOTE: Pooky

what part of my last few posts sounded like "please go shitpost some more and further clog the thread with irrelevant bullshit" i swear to fuck and YES i recognize im contributing to this HIDEOUS NIGHTMARE but if in the end i make these hyperactive shitposters do something that helps us sort through this mess i think we can all call it a win

...

Ahem.

Go do something /useful/.

USEFUL.

I wouldn't have made such a post, but, yeah, I was secretly annoyed at such a high posting rate.

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

what were you drinking shelly?

Bottle of whiskey

straight?

what type of whiskey?

Buddying/sheeping Mush who is clearly somewhat a town leader.

And I just found out that I have received three votes.

LAMIST vibes. Tone is weird. Hard to explain why.

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

You know, I would probably not have posted anything at all since I replaced in precisely because I don't have any game advancing content if it weren't for the fact that I must post every 36 hours or receive a prod. You know why I don't have any game advancing content? I couldn't finish reading the thread and have no idea what is going on when I am forced to skip several pages of posts to keep up. Now, if you will excuse me, I have some more to read.

AtE

So, here we go.

Evidence of Noraa's hemming and hawing on me.

Calling me Null but constantly looking for a way to scumread me that can be deemed as valid, because she's afraid to fabricate a reason and have it be torn down, in my opinion.

But even if you think that assessment of her behaviour is wrong, her behaviour is clear as day.

Here is the evidence.

this stuff is NOT AI for noraa.

I'm not interested in Meta as a defense. It's AI for people, IN GENERAL. She's not special or an exception.

Explain HOW you believe it's not AI. You've been doing this soft Meta defense and not giving anything.

So, will you explain this? It has literally been over a hundred pages, and you're still townreading her.

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

Taylor SR from Fred is extremely out of the blue. I'd honestly argue that red Fred somewhat clears Taylor but idk that might be a reach.

@Taylor
- Why is Fred town?
- What prompted 3573?

about fred i dont remember look at my iso.
what prompted that post was toog's list. if someone in those 5 was getting scrolled that was my preference. toog ignored me, we hit town.

I checked your ISO, and you put me as town in your read list with no explanation given.

VOTE: T-swizzle

this is obviously a scum

she is not even pretending to be trying at this point.

You know, if you would lay out a case, you may convince even more people of your opinion.

You SR Taylor then "defend" her here. Weird clash. Slightly feels like partner equity except the fact that I TR pooky but red Fred defo makes me wary about this. Fred/Taylor and Fred/Pooky are both plausible if you think about it.

still exists but uno is like 80% scum and you're 75%

still want you to do my ordering tho

Any reasons?

@Fred, why no comment on Shelley’s ordering request?

I didn't actually understand what that meant.

I interpreted it as she was requesting an ordered readslist on those slots.

I misinterpreted that post as shellyc asking me to order her some food as I misinterpreted the part of this post where she asks me to make this readlist as her own readlist. I'll get to work on it now.

Yeah, no. This is p scummy. No explanation needed especially since the tone wasn't a jokey tone.

You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.

Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

I don't really care if you mind this or not, but I have another readlist that reflects what I am thinking better than your random set of five that you just chose.

Town to scum:
MUSHSHAGANA, Gloria Cleary, Fidget, all players not on this list (null), Tayl0r Swift, Noraa

Sheeping consensus reads. Very vague reads list and no reason provided whatsoever.

And how did you reach that conclusion?

well i started by reading your posts, and then i thought about it real hard for about 3 seconds

do you like this answer from TSwift Fred?

Is it something you can see a town player saying or does it look more like scum who has no idea how to back up their fake thoughts?

I actually didn't like it, but I made a decision to [REDACTED FOR NOW TILL THE PLAN IS ENACTED OR CANCELLED].

Meanwhile, I actually can see this coming from a town player, which is a reason why I decided to not push Tayl0r Swift on it. However, in addition to this instance, I have taken note of this second instance and am mildly scumreading her.

Fence sitty.

Reading enough of the Noraa wagon to see her reaction and conclude it is scummy but not developing a corresponding LLD town read (or at least lean) does not sound terribly likely.

I have to agree with this. Unless you think LLD and Noraa performed the best scum theatre on record, it’s very clear that they could never be buddies in this game, so I totally don’t understand your thought process. @Fred?
...

I no longer clear people based on this very thing you are proposing. I currently am townreading Lady Lamdadelta for something else altogether, though.

I am also townreading Fidget now and would like to understand why those who are scumreading Fidget are doing so.

No reasons provided for Fidget or LLD read. Plus TRing LLD sure doesnt match up with how the scroll was handed :/

nah i think its a bad wagon, but this whole time ive been saying theres probably a better than random chance noraa flips scum, just not enough of a chance that she deserved the pressure shes under. its whatever, but its kinda dumb.

So, Tayl0r Swift, you thought that there is a better than random chance that Noraa flips scum, but you townread her?

This is actually an interesting point and each time I see it, I get low-key paranoid of Taylor.

Why did you, Tayl0r Swift, drop your question?

i forgot about it. i frequently dont follow up on things.

You forgot about it in the span of 19 minutes?

Ouch. Perhaps another valid point. I slightly feel like its just he jumped on Taylor cuz he got a whiff of LHF vibes. Taylor isnt really LHF imo but I think how that works is she seems more LHF to scum than she does to town. In OTD, I saw her as great limbait and I was scum. But then in Trials, she didn't seem like LHF at all. I think it has more to do with my alignment normally.

His focus is wrong for town.
He should be looking at me, but he isn't.

Why should I be looking at you?

This is a dude who has a guilty conscience and so he's not omgusing like all the good townies do.

Why should I be OMGUSing? I simply just don't do that unless I actually have a case on the person and I simply don't have any reason to think you are scum.

I found this interaction to be interesting. Cant put my finger on what it is about it but somethings strange here. Maybe I'll have to take a look at Bell again.

And then um I uh, got lazy and U-U didn't finish the ISO

Spoiler:

[Noraa]

^ignore typos

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Fred+Tayl0r is the new hotness, Noraa. Check my last post for the deets. I trust your judgement here because you're waffling on that slot, give me criticism.

[Noraa]

Fred+Tayl0r is the new hotness, Noraa. Check my last post for the deets. I trust your judgement here because you're waffling on that slot, give me criticism.

Vibe and meta wise, Taylor is town this game. The vibe is on point with her town meta. Playful, slightly only slightly arrogant, and not giving a shit about wtf anyone in the world says or if she offends anyone. Scum!Taylor is much more reserved, calm, and composed.

One problem is that she gave me a free town pass. Even now, I'm still really worried about it since she did that to me in Trials where she was scum.

Another problem is the partner equity with Fred. I must say it isnt as low as I would like considering my soul read on her tells me she is town. If they matched up, I'd have a locktown but they dont.

I think, in the end, I'd like to believe in my soul read over this partner equity with Fred. Partner equity can be faked and honestly speaking, I feel like Fred tried to set me up by trying to make it look like bussing the moment he entered the game(all the stuff was super weak and not backed up at all). With that in mind, I could defo see him setting Taylor up as well. I'd argue that it's the people that Fred's had only a few really brief interactions with or no interactions at all with that are the scum team. I am about 99% sure that this is the case and honestly, if I wasn't lazy, I'd probs be able to straight up just solve this entire game by looking solely at Fred interactions.

Anyways, I've waffled enough on Taylor this game. I'm going to just declare her town. My heart and soul tell me she is town and I'm not gonna ignore them bc I believe I've played enough with Taylor to be able to tell. I dont think I am wrong but I do understand that one person's opinion can't do anything against a consensus so I will try to save her if she starts going under but I won't put up a huge fight if it really is consensus.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

noraa how many people has taylor taken her town-read back on in this game

[Noraa]

noraa how many people has taylor taken her town-read back on in this game

no idea.

[shellyc]

good afternoon my fellows

Taylor scum with Fred still
shelly/Taylor is clearly not a team and really forced

firstly, I didn't derail the wagon at all, and it has been stated that I basically tried to drive the wagon throughout the day. If I wanted to derail I'd have made a case and asked my TRs to sheep me. I tried to PRESSURE, to shake things up.

secondly, why would I derail scum!fred (who looks worse) into scum!Taylor (who looks better than Fred)

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Prod dodge.

Good luck.

[MURDERCAT]

Who's scum Fred