Death Curse

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Oh what.

[Bell]

So is mush scrolled.

[MURDERCAT]

? Mush isn't scrolled yet

[Bell]

They passed it just before Hectic showed up.

[Hectic]

Scroll: MUSH

There is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the story.

This will not count, as it was posted during "twilight", and scroll passes must use the VOTE: tags.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I'm laughing so hard. We got Shelly to scumclaim and start putting tags down before she even properly had the scroll. Well done, town. I'm chalking this one up in the win column for that alone, regardless of actual game outcome.

Sometimes losers can be winners too. Sometimes winners can be double winners. But scum definitely has one loss here.

[MURDERCAT]

I think shelly knew what she was doing

[Noraa]

I think shelly knew what she was doing

Im agreeing with murder on this one. That felt like an attempt to confuse us and its worked. I am genuinely confused atm.

[Noraa]

I sincerely hate that all I get out of it is wifom but it's successfully made me extremely paranoid.

[MURDERCAT]

Unlike Fred, everything Shelly posts after being scrolled is pure wifom to be ignored

[MUSHSHAGANA]

There's nothing to read into. It was pure scum humiliation in public, even if the scum was doing it on purpose. Hell, especially if the scum was doing it on purpose.

[Noraa]

Unlike Fred, everything Shelly posts after being scrolled is pure wifom to be ignored

agreed this time around.

[Bell]

Why does it make you paranoid exactly.

do you think Mush suddenly received a new red role pm.
Cause that didn't happen.

I also think you don't need to be too cautious of shellyc scum.
She's a dead girl walking.

[Noraa]

No all the switches is making me paranoid because recently Mush asked a bunch of people for certain reads and im worrying that all that info mush gave is the reason scum wanted to scroll her or they wanted to make it seem like what she said is right. IDK *throws up my hands*

[Noraa]

WIFOM HELL

[MURDERCAT]

Mush killed two scum, that's why she is getting scrolled if she is

[Noraa]

I would find it super funny if they handed to Mush and she killed a third one. That'd legit be really funny. Mush'd literally fall off her dang chair laughing about it.

-nornor

[Noraa]

wait no. this isnt a hydra

[Fidget]

You are dancing around this and completely misrepping my case.

My case is not: he was planning to give the scroll to Adorable AFTER she switched her scroll target from Noraa to you. You contining to misrepresent what I’m saying is extremely telling.

What I actually did say, is he was planning to give it to Adorable BEFORE she switched her scroll target from Noraa to you because obviously Fred is fine with Noraa dying.

No. He did NOT and NEVER planned to give it to Adorable. Not even BEFORE. That is very clearly what I am saying. He never intended at any point to actually give it to her. That is why your case is false.

If you can't see the point I'm making, I don't want to talk about it anymore.

[Fidget]

Kinda thought shelly already had the scroll..

Fidget-effort your way out of this tough spot cuz I believe you are town.

Fidget is not a lurker. Each post she posts has a large amount of content even tho she only has 100+ posts. Flea on the other hand, has 66 posts each with close to zero content.

I appreciate you Noraa, sorry for being a tad tunneled early game. I have no doubt that you will solve the rest of this game.

[Fidget]

Spoiler: Titus posts

Can you explain it to me?

See above, she lied openly about trying to derail the Fred!scum wagon onto Taylor.
-Her belief that I am scum is totally insincere (4302). She actually cases me at one point (4989 + 4991) and it was really weak and I can't imagine shelly is actually 80% convinced I am scum based on that.
-All active obvtown had decent chance at cursing shelly last phase, but instead scum decided to pass the scroll to LLD -> probably because they thought she would hit town.
-She pretended throughout the entire first phase to be completely convinced that Noraa was scum, but lost interest in pushing there once the rest of the thread had changed its mind
-Shelly goes from low WIM, sounding pretty unenthusiastic when Bell suggests passing the scroll to her to "fucking hell I hate you" when she "thinks" she has been handed the scroll. Does not sound like a consistent attitude.

I feel that she is pretty obvious at this point.

1) Almost no one thinks a case against them is strong.

2) Forces an assumption that all active town thought shelly was the only pass. This is a wrong assumption because Murder had a "hot take" and I had yet to make up my mind at all. Attempting to force your argument to be more popular than it is sucks.

3) So she's supposed to stay pushing a scumread no one else is listening to? There's 4 scum left, not one.

4) That attitude of why care I am dead to I fucking hate you because I want to play is consistent.

Ok.

VOTE: UNOwen

These posts are really interesting, it seems like there are sides forming around Shelly/Uno

One thing to note is that scum will probably hard defend partners today because they will really want to avoid S>T>S

If Shelly is scum we should come back here

I understand your conclusion. I have a different, although more self serving conclusion.

T->S->T keeps the game at a neutral state.
T->T->T gets scum a near certain victory.

Therefore, if my numbers are correct, and there is a scum in Unowen/Shelly, scum want to avoid it entirely. Town should take a 50/50 and the evidence and move on. Yet town would always favor the one leading to S -> T.

That's why my vote is on Uno.

I feel like Titus is jumping through hoops to make it T>S>T by arguing for us to go UNOwen first here. Is scum in so much trouble that they are fucked if we go S>T>S today and would need to craft convoluted reasoning to avoid it?

TOWN

(in random order)
DGB
Tayl0r - town due to other players' attacks
MUSHSHAGANA - I can't say I agree with a lot of reads but they seem well thought out
Gloria Cleary - very earnest thought processes.
PookyTheMagicalBear - calling him town to lift his spirits
Bell - cricket poster, I like the clean calls though
MURDERCAT - a lot of idle questions that sound scummy but too many town tells to ignore.
UNOwen - is right about shelly bad faith interactions, so town
Adorable - I love the push on Noraa
Fidget - Analytical and solvey

NULL

Flea The Magician - urgh, this lurksack is hard to scrutinize, I hate their reads list >>>https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12288996
UNOwen - not really null, that's a town read for me, but I have to downgrade due to VCA.

SCUM

Noraa - how has this slot not been yeeted? Trash cricket posting. Cringingly manipulative.
Titus - roller derby scum
shellyc - more of a prediction than a read ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I totally missed this post. I don't have a bad thing to say about it. Well, I don't like the Noraa read much but that is excusable. I suppose the Titus read is also on town if DGB is red.

I have been feeling that DGB isn't really much different from my last game with her + Lapsa using Bell as an excuse to not play felt bad. But I'm unsure how scum!DGB wins the game when she concedes this many people are town and puts at least shelly but probably also Flea outside of the townbloc.

I present you with: some of my reads. composed while I'm space braining on my new meds :D

Taylor - TL, randomly defensive, seems to be sticking to guns. Smart enough to not create those specific associative tells imo.
Noraa - SL, can't forgive the over-defensiveness earlier and response to drilled, have considered play since and downgraded.
UNOwen - scum. Previous post details this somewhere.
Mush - Town - seems proactive
Lady - Town - want to see more from her, and hope she's well soon <3
Shelly - TL, slot doesn't sit well with me on interactions still but the response to the hurt seemed genuine to me.
MC - Not sure, overconfident in reads.
Pooky - SL, slot isn't sitting well with me, seems to be mostly shitposting and taunting.
Lapsa - SL, What the smeg even is this slot.
Theta - Null Seems rather middle of the road to me.
Fred - scum. Zden was lean, freds entrance was... well I had to triple check when they came in because it's like they were always here, and its 3 straight in at taylor.
Bell - TL. Reads well to me. Should probably go look at the points made against them at some point.
Fidget - Honestly, haven't been paying attention.
Gloria - See above.
Adorable - Forgot about them :mrgreen:

pedit

I think pooky's town. I feel like pooky has a kind of playful vibe when they are scum.

Pooky seems quite playful to me.

This is really really bad looking because Flea is positioned to scumread at least 4 players after Fred flips scum, 3 of which are highly likely town (Noraa, UNOwen, Pooky, Lapsa). They also have nulls galore that can be thrown in if necessary. Of course the shelly TL as well.

And the playful comment with regards to Pooky!! What!?

Fidget - S, Freds tag change didn't look good after Adorbs claimed intent to curse our foxy friendo.
Gloria - T, can't find fault with her. Good points, good contributions.
Adorable - Null/TL - Freds tagging and switching affected the read. Slot seems consistent, lots of reads and information, no analysis. I'd be curious to see a detailed reads list from this slot though.
Titus - SL, only skimmed. ye gods get off the fence. "why vanity wagon?" - next post "vote wagon". o.o Really seems keen on survival...

Also sheeping that BS reasoning on me, lovely. Weird that Adorbs remains as a Null/TL despite them sheeping the reasoning that Fred "originally wanting to kill Adorbs" makes me hard scum. Seems a bit.. odd to not clear Adorbs for it, maybe they haven't thought about it too much and are simply going with it..?

Also, I'm not a fox! I'm a nimbat!

I reeaaally want to get this right. But I have classwork to do. Another time..

[Noraa]

I will be hard defending Fidget for the rest of this game starting now.

[Noraa]

The decisions been made and I think Fidget is 100% town.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

No all the switches is making me paranoid because recently Mush asked a bunch of people for certain reads and im worrying that all that info mush gave is the reason scum wanted to scroll her or they wanted to make it seem like what she said is right. IDK *throws up my hands*

I took all of this into account. I specifically asked for gutreads from most of you that don't need to match your actual reads. Free association level reads that could be influenced by stuff like "their avatar bothers me". Titus picked up on that. (BTW: If you thought about your reads, Noraa, you need to Try Again. Right now.) That's good info for ME, put to the purpose I'm USING it for. Can scum see what I'm doing? If they can, they recognize that they may as well hit me now to keep me from taking this energy into the next few days. If they can't, they may as well hit me now because they don't know what's going on anyway.

So, what's that leave us? Can scum make decisions based on the info I grabbed?

Unlikely, because I'm not open with who my reads are right now.

Let me remind you I asked at least one scumread of mine who isn't Titus for opinions on slots that I partially townread. Is it Bell? Bell got a different list, after all. Is it MURDERCAT? MURDERCAT had to be given special concessions to get answers from them. Maybe Titus isn't a scumread, but I did single them out, so I mean, maybe, right -- but that'd still leave one other, so what good does that do you? Gloria? I gave her some strife earlier in the dayphase. Noraa? Maybe my wanting her to catch this scroll was covering up a scumread.

And fuck it, how about those partial townreads? Can /you/ guess who of the 6 people I asked for opinions on was my secret townread all along? Or maybe it's two. Or maybe it's three. Or maybe it's all of them and I have some galaxy brain take on the scum ALL lying in the townbloc.

Or maybe I'm just lying about all of it. In whole or in part, who knows.

The point being that town can do WIFOM just as well as scum can under the right circumstances, and I know some amount of what I'm doing. I'm good at manipulation, and if I wanted this to affect the scumteam I'd have the exact outcome I wanted. Unfortunately for them, now that they have gotten my attention, there is no hope and there is no escape. They can do whatever they want with this scroll and I will still ensure we hit red on round 3. Like I said: they might as well leave it exactly where it is, because the longer I live, the less chance there is they win.

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like Titus is jumping through hoops to make it T>S>T by arguing for us to go UNOwen first here. Is scum in so much trouble that they are fucked if we go S>T>S today and would need to craft convoluted reasoning to avoid it?

I think so yeah, from what I determined going T>T>T and then S>T>T from there still wins for town. Day 2 would be the hardest day to hit scum, now that we have associations it only gets easier. S>T>S is really bad for scum here.

Also, I'm guessing the town block of {MUSH, Bell, MC, Noraa} is strong and I think a town block of that size running the game makes things hard for scum.