Death Curse

[Gloria Cleary]

Nah, I was sending that to Gloria. I want her full list of slots she's hard-defended this game so I can identify why she's still alive.

Still. Give me a full reads list though.

Yes, yes, obscuring your reads, blah blah. I am trying to get information and create an actual game-solve, your obscurity is useless to town here. Do you want to be the first person I put the hurt on, just before I go to sleep? That would be silly, MURDERCAT.

I don’t think MC is scum.

I still think I’m right on Titus and her hardbussing theory makes perfect sense. I should probably ISO DGB in Trials to see if I agree on Titus’ read.

I still think Pooky is town who was masterfully pocketed by Shelley. Remember, she called him locktown where everyone else was sr him. Tell me that doesn’t 100% scream scum pocket to you?

Scum try to soft distance, they rarely locktown a buddy. Why? Because Pooky scumflip looks horrible for Shelley but I want to review her readslist before I do anything else because I want to have done something useful in this game other than helping to dismantle Noraa wagon.

I wasn’t sure on Fred, I never hard defended him.

I am extremely proud of my Isis/Noraa reads, so you can’t tell me I haven’t had any good reads. I also backed you on waiting to give LLD time if you recall because despite her plummet in activity, I recognized that her Hopkirk sr was logically based.
Yes, that’s 3 reads I was correct on.

[MURDERCAT]

You’re not considering the scroll position here

I am actually

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Three /town/ reads, Gloria.

Town reads aren't worth anything if you're giving scum free backstage passes to the townbloc, and you tried your hand at that twice. If you had succeeded, we could have gone S-T-S yesterday and then S for the first scroll of today and if you'd convinced everyone, town would still lose as our POE ran into a brick wall. Bad reads. As for why scum would kill that? Look at how we're treating people who get scrolls. What part? Figure it out: I'm going to shut my fat mouth on the rest of that until I have a /real/ solve, and if you get a lightbulb on why scum would hit that player with scrolls you should keep it on the DL too.

[Gloria Cleary]

You are dancing around this and completely misrepping my case.

My case is not: he was planning to give the scroll to Adorable AFTER she switched her scroll target from Noraa to you. You contining to misrepresent what I’m saying is extremely telling.

What I actually did say, is he was planning to give it to Adorable BEFORE she switched her scroll target from Noraa to you because obviously Fred is fine with Noraa dying.

No. He did NOT and NEVER planned to give it to Adorable. Not even BEFORE. That is very clearly what I am saying. He never intended at any point to actually give it to her. That is why your case is false.

If you can't see the point I'm making, I don't want to talk about it anymore.

What makes you so sure about that? You’re assuming that’s the case and yes obviously I’m assuming the converse but I don’t know how you can be this adamantly sure?

In a town!Adorable world, that is fucking game losing. How does Fred even remotely justify that kill? Adorable would then pass it to either me or Noraa, and then the entire town block still exists. Not a single townread person dies. What use is that kill to scum, at all? If you had a giant league full of (basically) masons, would you shoot someone outside of that pool? The only reason I could think of for doing that is if there's a bunch of scum hiding in the town bloc feeling comfortable.

And again, I want to note, Adorable suspecting me is not something he would be suddenly be surprised by. It is abundantly clear that from our convos that Adorable stood a good chance of shooting me even before he hurt her. So he was fine with that chance, but then he wasn't fine with it after the odds went up by however much? How the hell is that more likely than he was just doing a dance until he suddenly switches to the real target at the end? I would speculate that he was probably asking his more experienced mates who to actually shoot in the meantime.

Can we just disagree on this because I'm flipping my lid over it, and it probably won't matter in the scheme of things. You still think I'm scummy for my behavior towards shelly or something like that, and I don't really have anything to add to that. I'm much more willing to accept that reasoning because it makes me feel good sort of even though I guess it's not really a compliment. My votes on her seem like bussing to you, I suppose?

It did but I’m liking your last two posts and I suppose it’s also possible you/Adorable could be TvT but Shelley kept saying she wanted to 1v1 with you but never pursued it, so maybe she was trying to set you up as a buddy?

Like I was clearly wrong on Shelley so my confidence level has seriously plummeted.

[Fidget]

PEDIT: Fidget! Just in time. Glad you could join us. Give me your biggest scumread and your biggest non-consensus townread.

Biggest scumread is a tossup of Flea/DGB/Titus. From reading through earlier today, I gain the most negative feelings towards Flea and lost some of the ones I had for DGB. Titus also very awkwardly joined UNOwen wagon, but I have been bitten by not getting Titus' logic in the past. Even so, if scum couldn't afford a S>T>S, there is huge potential there.

Will give a more depth answer before this phase ends, but it will almost certainly be one of those three..

Non-consensus townread.. let's see, judging by consensus, the strongest townreads are probably {Bell, Murdercat, UNOwen, Mushy, Noraa}.

With {Pooky, Taylor} one step below them. Taylor might be higher, idk if people finally came around there or not.

and {Gloria, Adorable} below there, probably.

I hard townread Pooky and Taylor, so whichever one of them the thread generally doesn't agree on is probably my biggest non consensus townread. In short, I find it almost impossible to imagine their attitudes being like this if they're scum. Taylor also I feel is just not partnered with Fred.

Gloria I townlean on but not as strongly. Her "You can't possibly think I'm scum" response to me even barely suspecting her way back when felt good and also I liked her posts back then. Maybe she isn't always on the mark but she feels very high effort which is certainly difficult for scum to do.

I shelved Adorable as a townlean because no one agreed with me and also I got townpings from her calling me terrible (lol). I would be zazzed if she were actually scum the whole time, I found her reasons for voting Noraa over Fred to be very inconsistent.

So my answer is Taylor or Pooky depending on thread's opinion but either way they're both very strong townreads.

[Fidget]

It did but I’m liking your last two posts and I suppose it’s also possible you/Adorable could be TvT but Shelley kept saying she wanted to 1v1 with you but never pursued it, so maybe she was trying to set you up as a buddy?

Like I was clearly wrong on Shelley so my confidence level has seriously plummeted.

Could you remind me why we decided Adorable is town, because I'm drawing a blank. Just a sentence or two is fine I don't want to waste your time with sometime I should be looking up..

[MURDERCAT]

I think adorable is town because of how Fred acted towards the slot

[MURDERCAT]

Mush clearly you have some master plan but if the scroll doesn't go to someone who voted UNO over shelly it would be a mistake

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Those townreads /suck/, Fidget. I mean, there's a lot of town in them but there's no goddamn chaos. I'm looking for the townread most likely to cause fistfights. So for now, we'll let Adorable be that. AUDIENCE, HOW DO WE FEEL?



I have no idea how anyone's putting Gloria scummier than the Town in Tayl0r/Pooky (there is /zero/ chance that's scum theater), but I sure as fuck hope they show up soon. Wait. Wait, that's you? Oh gee, now you have to /justify yourself/. Don't you hate when that happens? Build me a Gloria scumcase. Beyond the hard-defending scum, I mean. I'm sure it'll take you awhile, so I want to make sure you don't forget. HURT: Fidget

I'll be around a bit longer but I doubt you'll finish before it's bedtime. I'll be sure to check your progress in the morning.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Mush clearly you have some master plan but if the scroll doesn't go to someone who voted UNO over shelly it would be a mistake

Town is wrong and dumb very very often. And you still haven't given me your full readslist so I'm disinclined to accept your guidance. I can't read. Help me read, MURDERCAT.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm going to tomorrow

[Gloria Cleary]

Three /town/ reads, Gloria.

Town reads aren't worth anything if you're giving scum free backstage passes to the townbloc, and you tried your hand at that twice. If you had succeeded, we could have gone S-T-S yesterday and then S for the first scroll of today and if you'd convinced everyone, town would still lose as our POE ran into a brick wall. Bad reads. As for why scum would kill that? Look at how we're treating people who get scrolls. What part? Figure it out: I'm going to shut my fat mouth on the rest of that until I have a /real/ solve, and if you get a lightbulb on why scum would hit that player with scrolls you should keep it on the DL too.

I don’t understand how am I giving scum “free backstage passes to the townblock”? I don’t understand, are you saying S-T-S and then S is somehow anti-wincon? How exactly?

So, you think I’m helping scum by correctly analyzing scum motivatuons? Well, that’s how I usually play but the mechanics are obviously different here, so perhaps I haven’t fully taken that into account?

You want CURRENT or ANY trs? or only ones I’ve been wrong on?

I already explained all of those. So, I’m not really sure what else you’re asking of me here.

I already told you wasn’t sure on Fred and that I was null on Shelley until Pooky proposed his Shelley/Owno TvT theory.

I hard defended Isis/Noraa but you probably aren’t asking me about that.

You want me to explain Titus/Pooky again?

Adorable? I’m less confident on that now.

Well, I just assumed you were giving it to me after reading Shelley’s scroll post then yours sr me, so I just got frustrated because I assumed your mind was already made up.

[Gloria Cleary]

PEDIT: Fidget! Just in time. Glad you could join us. Give me your biggest scumread and your biggest non-consensus townread.

Biggest scumread is a tossup of Flea/DGB/Titus. From reading through earlier today, I gain the most negative feelings towards Flea and lost some of the ones I had for DGB. Titus also very awkwardly joined UNOwen wagon, but I have been bitten by not getting Titus' logic in the past. Even so, if scum couldn't afford a S>T>S, there is huge potential there.

Will give a more depth answer before this phase ends, but it will almost certainly be one of those three..

Non-consensus townread.. let's see, judging by consensus, the strongest townreads are probably {Bell, Murdercat, UNOwen, Mushy, Noraa}.

With {Pooky, Taylor} one step below them. Taylor might be higher, idk if people finally came around there or not.

and {Gloria, Adorable} below there, probably.

I hard townread Pooky and Taylor, so whichever one of them the thread generally doesn't agree on is probably my biggest non consensus townread. In short, I find it almost impossible to imagine their attitudes being like this if they're scum. Taylor also I feel is just not partnered with Fred.

Gloria I townlean on but not as strongly. Her "You can't possibly think I'm scum" response to me even barely suspecting her way back when felt good and also I liked her posts back then. Maybe she isn't always on the mark but she feels very high effort which is certainly difficult for scum to do.

I shelved Adorable as a townlean because no one agreed with me and also I got townpings from her calling me terrible (lol). I would be zazzed if she were actually scum the whole time, I found her reasons for voting Noraa over Fred to be very inconsistent.

So my answer is Taylor or Pooky depending on thread's opinion but either way they're both very strong townreads.

It did but I’m liking your last two posts and I suppose it’s also possible you/Adorable could be TvT but Shelley kept saying she wanted to 1v1 with you but never pursued it, so maybe she was trying to set you up as a buddy?

Like I was clearly wrong on Shelley so my confidence level has seriously plummeted.

Could you remind me why we decided Adorable is town, because I'm drawing a blank. Just a sentence or two is fine I don't want to waste your time with sometime I should be looking up..

Do you realize you just contradicted yourself on your Adorable read with those two posts?

In the first post, you have her as a townlean and in the second you’re asking why I tr her?

[Gloria Cleary]

@Fidget, explain your Adorable read in #1604 and #1605.

If you got townpings from her in #1604, why are you asking why she’s a consensus tr in #1605?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

My mind is made up on a great many things, like being a really entertaining asshole for the 48 hours and change for which I rule this land. It is not made up on my target: there are only two worlds where I get the scroll, you see; either I am right or I am wrong. It is far more likely that I am wrong by basic probability, so I will reanalyze using the now vast and untold power I wield and decide if I was right or if I was wrong, and in what ways.

You need to reread the post if you think I was /somehow/ saying S->T->S was anti-wincon. That is in fact the opposite of what I was saying. If scum are in the town bloc deep enough even the best townplay and best run of luck cannot win the game; that is the point. You were valuable to scum alive or dead, but I see far more use to you as someone who dies, if only because of the strength of town's POE at the end of Day 1. /That/ is why I need to know the list of people you were hard defending. Yes, townies too. If there was general town hostility in a direction and you stepped in front of that bullet, it counts -- So Fred, Shelly, first wagon on Noraa all count. I don't remember on Isis/Vax or the others, I was sort of trusting you to be the expert on your own play.

And in case you disagree on Fred: you didn't have your mind made up, but you were massive friction on that wagon for the first half.

[Gloria Cleary]

There is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the story.[/quote]

This will not count, as it was posted during "twilight", and scroll passes must use the VOTE: tags.

[/quote]

¶

Votecount 3.2

(FINAL)

[8] shellyc:

UNOwen, Tayl0r Swift, MUSHSHAGANA, Titus, Gloria Cleary, Flea the Magician, Bell, DrippingGoofball

HAMMER

[6] Not Voting:

PookyTheMagicalBear, shellyc, MURDERCAT, Adorable, Noraa, Fidget

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to curse someone with the scroll. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to curse.

The cursing deadline is in (expired on 2020-11-16 09:35:05).

Joint moderator ISO.

@Titus, didn’t you say that scum hardbussed? Then why is DGB a sr based off if this? Doesn’t that completely contradict your theory?

[MURDERCAT]

If scum are in the town bloc deep enough even the best townplay and best run of luck cannot win the game; that is the point.

If they were I don't think we'd have got scum twice in a row

[MURDERCAT]

Also just a spoiler for how this phase ends, I'm going to convince you to shoot titus

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Mush is not going to shoot obv-scum

Mush is going to shoot the traitor in the townblock

[MURDERCAT]

Who's that? Me? Or Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

No reaction to shelly being scum Pooky?

[Gloria Cleary]

My mind is made up on a great many things, like being a really entertaining asshole for the 48 hours and change for which I rule this land. It is not made up on my target: there are only two worlds where I get the scroll, you see; either I am right or I am wrong. It is far more likely that I am wrong by basic probability, so I will reanalyze using the now vast and untold power I wield and decide if I was right or if I was wrong, and in what ways.

You need to reread the post if you think I was /somehow/ saying S->T->S was anti-wincon. That is in fact the opposite of what I was saying. If scum are in the town bloc deep enough even the best townplay and best run of luck cannot win the game; that is the point. You were valuable to scum alive or dead, but I see far more use to you as someone who dies, if only because of the strength of town's POE at the end of Day 1. /That/ is why I need to know the list of people you were hard defending. Yes, townies too. If there was general town hostility in a direction and you stepped in front of that bullet, it counts -- So Fred, Shelly, first wagon on Noraa all count. I don't remember on Isis/Vax or the others, I was sort of trusting you to be the expert on your own play.

And in case you disagree on Fred: you didn't have your mind made up, but you were massive friction on that wagon for the first half.

Well. I obviously disagree that killing town!me is optimal and I will be far more upset if you scroll me while correctly reading me for obvious reasons. No, I don’t think I should die for being wrong and opinionated and my reads are probably going to be a lot better now that we have two scumflips to work off of.

[Gloria Cleary]

Mush is not going to shoot obv-scum

Mush is going to shoot the traitor in the townblock

What makes you think one even exists? Who specifically are you FOSsing?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No reaction to shelly being scum Pooky?

misrep

[Gloria Cleary]

Who's that? Me? Or Noraa?

Scrolling Noraa would be completely insane.

@Pooky do you or do you not agree that Noraa is IC?

Of course Mush should shoot either obvscum or likely scum.