Death Curse

[Bell]

All right, all right calm down everyone.

[Noraa]

I still believe mush did the right thing. Honestly, if DGB was gunna die tomorrow, what's the difference?

THE DIFFERENCE IS WHETHER OR NOT SCUM GETS TO SHOOT ME

Dude there's like no way scum kill you before they kill me :/
Im the crown princess after all.

[MURDERCAT]

Seriously like if you don't understand the situation at least be willing to hear out the people who are trying to explain it to you. I'm taking another break from this game

VOTE: Titus

[Bell]

I feel like Noraa is a little sister, annoying but it’s not her fault. It’s a little sister’s right to annoy the heck out of elder siblings.
But man, I am annoyed.

[UNOwen]

I literally said that before she did it though and asked her to talk it out with me

Yeah I did see that, and do think it was an error not to hear out what you had to say. But out of the four this is the scroll pass that considered town the most, so I'm not too upset.

[Bell]

That was a little too close to a personal attack. I apologize for my comment.
I don’t know why i’m emotionally agitated by noraa’s Posts. But that is my problem.
Sorry.

[Gloria Cleary]

murder is your scumdar broken or something

Oh no, Shelly's doing it. Am I going to finally catch Shelly being scum? Or is there something I've missed somehow?

your scumdar is broken, again

I don't get how wanting to flip noraa is a scumtell in all fairness
im trying to divert attention to bell in fact by having this interaction so I can sort them

Couldn’t find that Shelley post but MC is definitely town from this.

[Noraa]

T^T sorry I'll shut up.

[Gloria Cleary]

It doesn't matter anymore, but I don't think MUSH's call was as terrible as is being made out. Only in retrospect with DGB town does it mean we have probably given scum a shot we didn't need to. If both were scum that would have happened regardless.

mush took a stupid gamble because she was overconfident. she assumed that we all thought one thing when we thought another. rather than trusting her teammates she went off and made a solo play that hurt town. there was no reason to hurt town or take a chance of hurting town.

This feels like you’re explicitly saying this to get me to town read you. But it’s far too late for that.

Titus and Tayl0r are never svs.

[Noraa]

Titus should scroll me tomorrow. Town doesn't like me anyways. I wanna go join Mush

[Bell]

I’ll reconsider if Titus flips scum. We’ll flip Titus first.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I don't see how "I see this player, the scummiest one in the game to me, starting to get town treatment from other slots. I will kill them before they can worm their way into the townbloc" is more of a gamble than "I see this player, the scummiest one in the game to me, starting to get town treatment from other slots. I will kill the second scummiest player in the game and trust the town already giving the first player townpasses to kill them instead."

Edited for sanity because the quotes before were too much.

I'd have done the same if it was Titus people were treating like unfairly persecuted town. Those two slots had to go down, I was not going to chance it that town would give one of them a pass. But look at it from my perspective here: DGB was scummier looking, to me, and was also getting the passes? No. Nuh-uh. Titus will go down, DGB could worm out, I had to put a stop to that.

And I'm /still/ unconvinced that we hit green. As quoted in my quoted post somehow (no I still don't get it), there's an effect where you tell people a lot of bullshit and then quickly blip the truth at them, but they're all already /so/ emotionally invested in the garbage that the truth, /even/ if they accept it, does not remove all the bad signal they've been swamped with. In fact, they can even start rationalizing how the truth /supports the lies/. If DGB flips red, this town is going to cannibalize itself ANYWAY if it doesn't watch out.

Scum are capable of being subtle. The last time I had to reference RationalWiki to point out my reasons for scumreading someone, they were scum -- 2028, Day 1, word321. That doesn't make it a guarantee, but it does mean I'm not off in some other world of my own invention when things hit this stage, and I don't appreciate being called a gambling moron who isn't thinking of town for making a perfectly reasonable decision from my POV.

[MURDERCAT]

T^T sorry I'll shut up.

My angry post was less towards you than it was towards mush, sorry if it came off that way

[Noraa]

T^T sorry I'll shut up.

My angry post was less towards you than it was towards mush, sorry if it came off that way

That's still mean! I was upset when I saw it. Mush prolly doesn't feel hot seeing it either

[Gloria Cleary]

Goodbye DGB - it's a shame you replaced the worst slot in the game and had to die for it.

Probably not trolling here, so that's an even greater shame. Means there is definitely scum that's reasonably well hidden still.

Anyone who doubts me when I say DGB can be scum breaking apart town before the POE steamroller gets moving, please read: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Penultima ... h_syndrome

In particular: "And those who do read that far may have trouble accepting it due to the cognitive dissonance brought on by the intended outrage created by the main body copy. Research into this sort of bias has shown that people who read contrary information may even see this as reinforcing their previous belief - and so placing it at the end sets up these clarifying remarks to actually back up the opinion of the article."

Same concept comes into play here.

I don't see how "I see this player, the scummiest one in the game to me, starting to get town treatment from other slots. I will kill them before they can worm their way into the townbloc" is more of a gamble than "I see this player, the scummiest one in the game to me, starting to get town treatment from other slots. I will kill the second scummiest player in the game and trust the town already giving the first player townpasses to kill them instead."

No, Mush I think that was smart, because people are clearly missing the obvious, which is. for like the gazillionth time now:

Town!DGB tries to get you to scroll Titus now, not wait to give it to her tomorrow. What is the possible town motivation for that? Whether or not Titus is scrolled or DGB gets to scroll her tomorrow, DGB still lives to see another day.

The only difference is that you might have possibly miscrolled town instead.

[Noraa]

Mush is about to die. The least everyone could do is be nice. Even if she scrolls wrong, SO?!
Everyone here is human. Blaming one person for a mistake is not the way to go especially if you dont even know if its a mistake.

[MURDERCAT]

Fair enough, I apologize to both of you

[Flea The Magician]

Gloria you're far too heated, you gotta learn some chill

[MUSHSHAGANA]

ehhh ok I mean I think it flips scum and I guess it makes the vote target clear

There is way more evidence for Titus though

MURDERCAT, remember this? Remember when I said that /that is a good part of why I want to hit DGB first/? I know you ISOed and decided that you disagree with me, okay, fine. Did you include Lapsa in that ISO? Did you consider that DGB has been a nonentity until the time came to decide, then effortposting from left field and manages to swing around the Lapsa reads in the 11th hour?

Did you consider that from my POV, there was scum dodging a bullet and derailing the POE for Day 4, and that I had the power to stop it immediately even if everyone else could not see it?

Did you consider that your emotional reactions will last BEYOND WHEN THE FLIP HAPPENS? Did you consider that scum can bank on that shit and shade a ton of other slots as they go out and cause the town to deflagrate messily before the POE even gets rolling?

Please. Wait for the flip before you react like this.


PEDIT: Tone doesnt fit with the apology, but thread's moving too fast for me to want to edit it. Consider this a "please read the above in a pleading tone of voice" post-script. Apology accepted, BTW.

[Bell]

I don’t feel I was mean to mush.
I got here and lacked context and just offhandedly mentioned I thought dgb was town based off her posts that page and the one before it.

We’ll see what she flips. I won’t bear a grudge if she flips town because that would be silly.

[UNOwen]

It was a reasonable call that appears to have gone wrong. Everyone else to receive the scroll has gone for their personal suspicion and missed, DGB scum was not a controversial opinion.

[MURDERCAT]

I am not upset with the shot, more so that I felt it wasn't the correct decision and I wasn't given a chance to argue my case. I shouldn't have overreacted though.

[Gloria Cleary]

Titus should scroll me tomorrow. Town doesn't like me anyways. I wanna go join Mush

Spoiler:

It’s possible because I think you’re wrong on Flea, despite her bad take on me.

[Flea The Magician]

what's done is done, all we can do now is wait for hectic, see the flips, and follow PoE


Pedit: They

[Gloria Cleary]

I’ll reconsider if Titus flips scum. We’ll flip Titus first.

+1

Titus red flip spews Tayl0r town.