Mini Normal 2173 | Bending | Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

Honestly I mostly see scum have regular-looking readslists. Yeah the don't keep their options open as much, but they don't draw attention to themselves. Also, these posts don't seem like he's trying to keep his options open:

Taylor I am nullish on - I thought her criticism of Gamma's placeholder vote on N_M was opportunistic and she flipped between several of the main wagons yesterday but the wider general feel of her posts is townish and it feels like she has been trying to actively scumhunt (certainly more than some others rn) so I just don't think its a good elim choice compared to some others (DGB, A50, Andres)

I am content to vote Andres (or possibly A50 but as that is more of a feel-read, I'd rather refine it by hearing more from him (eg on his scum suspects as requested)) to reach a consensus if there is no will for an elim on DGB but it's hard to look past here when she slings stuff like above eg insinuating that I have no reads - I genuinely don't understand how other people aren't seeing this !?

Of course he's keeping his options open.

Taylor:

nullish
opportunistic
fliipping around
townish
scumhunts
not as good elim as others (but he's still open to it) such as DGB, A50, Andres

Andres:

I can vote Andres
I can vote A50
I'd rather vote DGB

[Andresvmb]

I’m also going to agree that having the Detective claim their check beforehand is silly. I would rather have the opportunity for that to potentially hit Scum than have it be confirmed somehow. I don’t know what the value of that is, but I also don’t know Marky Mark’s full role.

[DrippingGoofball]

I’m leaning Town on Tayl0r after I ISO’ed so I’m feeling better about my vote.

Me too but had had not noticed the CLAIM STALL.

[Infinity 324]

Jesus, is that too obvious to be a CW attempt?

CW? Court Wizard? Counter-Wagon?

Counterwagon yeah. Like I'm skeptical that's enough of a reason to change from 3252

PEdit: DGB, it's pretty clear he can't justify a vote on them except as a compromise right?

[DrippingGoofball]

I’m also going to agree that having the Detective claim their check beforehand is silly. I would rather have the opportunity for that to potentially hit Scum than have it be confirmed somehow. I don’t know what the value of that is, but I also don’t know Marky Mark’s full role.

He didn't claim watcher?

[Infinity 324]

I’m also going to agree that having the Detective claim their check beforehand is silly. I would rather have the opportunity for that to potentially hit Scum than have it be confirmed somehow. I don’t know what the value of that is, but I also don’t know Marky Mark’s full role.

The thing is, scum can use the same person to perform the kill tonight that they used n1. So it doesn't really matter in terms of finding scum, unless we lim the player who performed the n1 kill.

[DrippingGoofball]

PEdit: DGB, it's pretty clear he can't justify a vote on them except as a compromise right?

The door is wide open to make that compromise, a vote is already pre-justified - he can remain scumsistent and vote a whole bunch of players.

[Andresvmb]

I’m also going to agree that having the Detective claim their check beforehand is silly. I would rather have the opportunity for that to potentially hit Scum than have it be confirmed somehow. I don’t know what the value of that is, but I also don’t know Marky Mark’s full role.

He didn't claim watcher?

Not explicitly as far as I can tell. I won’t speculate further.

[Andresvmb]

I’m also going to agree that having the Detective claim their check beforehand is silly. I would rather have the opportunity for that to potentially hit Scum than have it be confirmed somehow. I don’t know what the value of that is, but I also don’t know Marky Mark’s full role.

The thing is, scum can use the same person to perform the kill tonight that they used n1. So it doesn't really matter in terms of finding scum, unless we lim the player who performed the n1 kill.

Well what I would do is potentially announce the check with the caveat that if we flip Scum, it doesn’t hold since theoretically we could have flipped the person that committed the NK, so there’s some value in chasing at that point.

[Andresvmb]

@Koba can you get in here I want to discuss what’s happening with you. I want you to update your read on VPB and tell me what you think.

[Infinity 324]

PEdit: DGB, it's pretty clear he can't justify a vote on them except as a compromise right?

The door is wide open to make that compromise, a vote is already pre-justified - he can remain scumsistent and vote a whole bunch of players.

Idk, compromise voting locks you in quite a bit as scum, and you usually end up voting someone who probably would've gotten limmed anyway.

PEdit: yeah ok.

Mark, I'm going to target DGB if we lim town today, but if we lim scum, I may target someone else.

[DkKoba]

Me wishing i didnt have work rn

[Andresvmb]

The part where they're talking about eating the NK after they yeet a scum is them being incredibly confident that they're going to lynch scum D1, which is mathematically unlikely and Town hardly ever has that much confidence given Townies would know next to nothing outside of what their role is. Also the fact they're extremely confident that Koba or themselves is going to die at night, that means that they're incredibly confident that Koba is town and it's like scum is needing to pocket Koba but not push their full innocence as they might be a needed push later down the line and they don't want to put the full effort of having to develop a full ass 180 story.

Yeah, I'm confident that if Koba is town here, we have pretty good odds of yeeting scum D1. I don't play to lose or hem and haw. Neither does Koba is my sense.

Further, if Andres and DGB are town, scum are in for a rough road. That's potentially 4 fairly aggressive town players to contend with from the start.

Why should I concede D1 has to be a misyeet?

I’m also going to argue that a Scum flip by VPB clears JV. Don’t see this exchange being SvS.

[DrippingGoofball]

compromise voting locks you in quite a bit as scum

Are we talking at cross-purposes?

He is willing to compromise on nearly anyone. How does that lock him in? I see that nearly all the doors are open.

[Infinity 324]

I’m also going to argue that a Scum flip by VPB clears JV. Don’t see this exchange being SvS.

Why?

compromise voting locks you in quite a bit as scum

Are we talking at cross-purposes?

He is willing to compromise on nearly anyone. How does that lock him in? I see that nearly all the doors are open.

It locks him in because he can't vote whoever he wants. He's still forced into voting his top SR's as long as they're viable wagons. Like, I'd compromise on taylor if that was our only option to avoid a no-elim, and I think there's almost no chance she's scum. Being willing to compromise means nothing.

[DkKoba]

@Koba can you get in here I want to discuss what’s happening with you. I want you to update your read on VPB and tell me what you think.

I still think theyre town and i wanna only vote in taylor/nm for the most part

[Andresvmb]

Anyway I welcome some input from others on this and you can all yell at me for focusing on the wrong thing if that’s what I’m doing. This could also be confirmation bias on my part.

I don't think you're wrong that infinity is clearly OMGUSing me for voting him. I think Taylor's reasoning is equally bad and her crying foul act every time I ask her a question is sus as hell, but I'm fine yeeting infinity today. I think the scum equity is maybe not as high as youd think (maybe like 65% odds flip red in my unscientific estimation), but I'm willing to concede I'm wrong often and infinity isn't exactly winning me over since I voted him.

I mean... yeah, VPB/Tayl0r is probably not SvS, and if we trust Infinity’s claim, I do think we should swing against VPB here.

[Andresvmb]

I’m also going to argue that a Scum flip by VPB clears JV. Don’t see this exchange being SvS.

Why?

compromise voting locks you in quite a bit as scum

Are we talking at cross-purposes?

He is willing to compromise on nearly anyone. How does that lock him in? I see that nearly all the doors are open.

It locks him in because he can't vote whoever he wants. He's still forced into voting his top SR's as long as they're viable wagons. Like, I'd compromise on taylor if that was our only option to avoid a no-elim, and I think there's almost no chance she's scum. Being willing to compromise means nothing.

@Infinity, that post that JV made is too specific. Does it read like distancing to you? It doesn’t to me. It’s well crafted and reads like a legitimate push in my eyes. It also came very early in the game, and I don’t think Partners look to discredit each other so early. I have seen players do it, sure. It’s just less common. You’ll notice that VPB returns the favor to some extent, SR’ing JV at different moments, and putting some votes down in that direction. I just don’t see it.

[Andresvmb]

@Koba can you get in here I want to discuss what’s happening with you. I want you to update your read on VPB and tell me what you think.

I still think theyre town and i wanna only vote in taylor/nm for the most part

I think you’re wrong, and I think you might be pocketed. I don’t think Tayl0r is going to flip Scum, and I think you should consider what I’m saying. However, I am not going to fight this too hard. If Tayl0r flips Scum, great. That’s progress. If not, it should make it crystal clear that VPB is Scum.

[VP Baltar]

Taylor/A50/nm might be the squad here. They could be holding rank since NM doesn't talk and has few associatives. Plus lack of day talk probably means bussing is less likely since scum don't want to hurt each other's feelings without asking first.

Infinity is alternate for Taylor.

You’ve been saying Infinity is Town for a long time, really? Are you sure about that?

I have not been saying. I said one of taylor or infinity is absolutely scum here. Are you intentionally trying to misread me at this point?

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity, that post that JV made is too specific. Does it read like distancing to you? It doesn’t to me. It’s well crafted and reads like a legitimate push in my eyes. It also came very early in the game, and I don’t think Partners look to discredit each other so early. I have seen players do it, sure. It’s just less common. You’ll notice that VPB returns the favor to some extent, SR’ing JV at different moments, and putting some votes down in that direction. I just don’t see it.

I can see the reasoning for JV being town from that in a vaccuum, it does look like a genuine read to me. I'm not convinced scum specifically

wouldn't

distance in that way, but maybe they're a little less likely to.

[Andresvmb]

Actually no, VPB didn’t vote Jackson. I mistook a Tayl0r vote for a VPB vote. There was some shading back and forth but no vote.

[Andresvmb]

@andres - you realize I was saying flavor town long ago, right?

Uhm, you’ve been calling it a 50/50 like 10 minutes ago. I think you need people to believe that in case Tayl0r flips Town, so that you don’t get immediately executed. But if Tayl0r flips Town, you should be executed I’m afraid.

I'm really not following your logic here. My point is that you are clearing infinity for saying Flavor is town, and I've been doing that for a long time,just not related to a night action

So what are you saying here then? The way I read it, you’re saying that you’ve been TR’ing Infinity outside of their Night Action clearing Flavor. Is that not what you meant?

[VP Baltar]

@andres - you realize I was saying flavor town long ago, right?

Uhm, you’ve been calling it a 50/50 like 10 minutes ago. I think you need people to believe that in case Tayl0r flips Town, so that you don’t get immediately executed. But if Tayl0r flips Town, you should be executed I’m afraid.

I'm really not following your logic here. My point is that you are clearing infinity for saying Flavor is town, and I've been doing that for a long time,just not related to a night action

So what are you saying here then? The way I read it, you’re saying that you’ve been TR’ing Infinity outside of their Night Action clearing Flavor. Is that not what you meant?

No. I've been saying I'm willing to give infinity a night to prove his claim (which is suspicious, but that is still the right play)

I know you can't see my alignment, so I get it. But from my perspective, those two having exactly the same reads and hanging up on me all game means one of them is scum snowing the other. There is 99% chance one of them is scum though from my perspective.

Infinity's claim doesn't mean shit to me until he gets a confirmed guilty

[Andresvmb]

Oh I misread it. I replaced Flavor for Infinity in the original post.

In any case, it’s ALSO not true. When Flavor came in, you said that you liked their posting, but would maintain your skepticism in that direction. I can find the specific post. I think that Flavor has not been seriously pushed, so you never really had to adjust too hard there, and now that Flavor has claimed, it’s just convenient.