BooneyToonz XIV: A Little Boonie Told Me [END]

[The Pelican Brief]

{pelican, HBB, bell, BEF, gypyx, (us)}
{HUB, TGP (am i correct in recalling that scum!noraa spews this slot town?), ydrasse}
(ari, nico}
{ircher, sam}
{vax, gamma}
-tay

I have to say, but for Gamma and HUB, I love this readslist. Setting aside the angle shoot, I had my own problems with the slot. I just feel like the current reasons make me iffy/unsettled. If the wagon took off when I documented my reasons, I'd feel easier about voting it.

~Titus

[The Pelican Brief]

im not feeling

bell

-town here, but probably because i got spiky with him in 571,

tay

...

also not seeing

gamma

scum in relation to

vax

?

walk me through with both your takes here?

~taly

p-edit

+1 650

titus

and i are mindmelding

[samantha97]

if gamma is mafia then what do you think the odds are of nico not-so-randomly voting them at the start as also-mafia?

[Ircher]

Hi everyone; sorry I haven't been around much this weekend. I've been busy doing various school work. I will likely catch up either tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

Just as an update, I am reevaluating my vote placement as I am not as confident in it as I was when I placed it. Nonetheless, I do not feel compelled to move it for the time being.

[The Pelican Brief]

Taly and I can throw at party at ET's house. It might be poorly attended but most of you won't regret it and those that would have no business attended.

~Titus

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'm staying on vax for obvious reasons
i know game integrity and all so even outside of the replace out noraa's play scum spewed that slot

[The Pelican Brief]

i'm staying on vax for obvious reasons
i know game integrity and all so even outside of the replace out noraa's play scum spewed that slot

If Noraa’s play scumspewed that slot, why is that not mentioned in your ISO?

~Titus

[The Pelican Brief]

I am now scumreading TGP and townreading Vax after looking at the post replace out request posts. Why give associatives when just subbing out? Why not just be quiet? Noraa's posts after subbing out didn't scum spew the slot.

In fact, that's not the case at all. People are arguing the fact they subbed out at all is scummy. TGP posting that they were scummy prior to the sub out request is inconsistent with his own ISO calling them town.

Taly is in agreement that TGP could be scum. We are trying to work out Vax and Ydrasse to get on the same page.

We both think HUB, Ircher and TGP could be teamed.

~Titus

[The Pelican Brief]

I am now scumreading TGP and townreading Vax after looking at the post replace out request posts. Why give associatives when just subbing out? Why not just be quiet? Noraa's posts after subbing out didn't scum spew the slot.

In fact, that's not the case at all. People are arguing the fact they subbed out at all is scummy. TGP posting that they were scummy prior to the sub out request is inconsistent with his own ISO calling them town.

Taly is in agreement that TGP could be scum. We are trying to work out Vax and Ydrasse to get on the same page.

We both think HUB, Ircher and TGP could be teamed.

~Titus

I haven't outlined my thoughts as much here.

My townish feel for

TGP

early is evaporating, and I do individually scumread

Ircher/HUB

at varying degrees.

I'm currently doing a group ISO analysis that involves

TGP/HUB/Ircher

, with another person that I have a solid townread on.

My gut leans that this group is T/S, likelier scum-heavy V town, 1t:3s, if not 2t:2s in ratio.

1 scum with 3 town is possible... I am very confident it is an S/T group prior to flips.

Titus

is bringing up a possibility based on us discussing in the PT.

~Taly

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I'm feeling reasonably confident on Gamma town, why is he at the bottom of your list Catavi Terror?

[The Pelican Brief]

Hub, any reason you aren't interacting with our reads? I know you disagree with our scumread on you. Is there anything else that you agree or disagree with?

~Titus

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'm staying on vax for obvious reasons
i know game integrity and all so even outside of the replace out noraa's play scum spewed that slot

If Noraa’s play scumspewed that slot, why is that not mentioned in your ISO?

~Titus

It's not mentioned in my ISO because it happened within a short period of time (i.e. noraa claimed that she didn't enjoy the game and it was too "fast paced" for her, which is an entire load of bullshit), and then, due to that, replaced out. the replace out itself was insanely scummy, but the REASON for the replacement was also incredibly scummy and spewed the slot scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was gonna ask for someone to help me care about this game but it looks like my impetus might be on this very page

[Endless Terror]

was it this post that inspired you gamma?
-tay

[Ircher]

Probably the first and easiest thing to do here is just ask Gypyx if he was being honest with his opening claim.

Just FYI. I was not. My second claim however was true.
Pedit: between Taylor and shelly.

(This honestly feels like a waste of time. There's no real reason to suspect that Gypyx was joking about their claim.)

I agree with Taly about Ircher’s Samantha defense being a little overzealous probably

I can agree with being perhaps overzealous, but that by itself shouldn't be a reason to have an issue with me.

Can someone recap the last 10 pages?

Also, please update the list with any new CLAIMS MADE.

Seriously, don't be so lazy. It would help you a lot, both as town and scum.

I mean a wise men once said that a BEF D1 wagon has scum at the helm.

It's been awhile since it's happened but maybe that sentiment still stands.

An anecdote is far from useful.

Bell/HBB/Pelican all rather obvtown as of right now.

Pelican is far from obvtown. Bell isn't obvtown either.

Taylor townleans Ydrasse. For what it's worth they're my least-magnitude SR right now.

I feel like ydrasses defense in 277 contradicts with 368 poking at the claims list a bit

In the real time read I didn't see the contradiction, reading back now it feels off and not as genuine as in RT.

I am trying to work with you to get over my OMGUS and you stick your finger in the wound.

Why should I get over your OMGUS if I feel it's scummy
-S

I hope you will get over it is all I can say. Just don't tunnel me and be open to me being town.

At this point, you are just begging to be townread... Why do you expect that to change someone's read on you?

BEF why are your respnses so dodgy and fence-sitty and unwilling to take up responsibility for reading us. and basically making some ~effort~ to read us seemingly while still putting us as "maybe town, maybe scum" which applies to everyone.
-S

This is a really comment from Endless Terror.

it was, and i found that comment dumb because i don't see it as rolefishing at all when they're asking for roles that people have already outted at that point, but i don't find it as gross as the way that samantha interacted with bef in 251, 257, and 259. the last post especially has these like... weird vibes, like samantha has already written off bef entirely for what i find (at that point in the game) bad reason. it's flippant but i don't get why at all.

I see nothing wrong with 251. They clearly state why they wanted to switch the wagon to BrightEyedFish. Wanting to vote a player is by no means writing a player off. 257 perhaps doesn't come across as friendly, but it is an appropriate response to a question already answered once. Again, I don't see what you see. 259 is perhaps the worst as it is rather flippant (and I agree--chalking it up as a joke doesn't quite seem right), but when we look at it from a holistic view, it's still within the realm of reasonable, and it does not necessarily imply (though it may to some extent suggest) that samantha is unwilling to engage with BrightEyedFish. Furthermore, BrightEyedFish had yet to do anything at the time to encourage samantha to reconsider.

how do i get better at signing help
this post and the above post from shelly

(Make it a habit, and it will come naturally. Start by signing when you first start making your post so that you do not forget later.)

posted recently and posted non-fluff

and apparently that's why my eyes glaze over the tsunami slot because the nora-head posts a ton of it. 72's (i think it was his) posts are a lot better but they're drowned out by a ton of padding.

does noraa fluff a lot in general or is it skewed more towards one alignment? and even then, does she still try to provide a decent amount of content? there's some in there but it's scarce.

(This is a fair assessment of BrightEyedFish's more recent posts, but I would argue that despite not being "fluff", their recent posts aren't exactly "useful".)

I guess Nico is drifting more into my "would fade" category if she keeps not posting but that's not really a scumlean, just a slot I'm not excited to keep waiting to do anything

(I'm going to note this is fairly typical from that slot. We can only pray that we get more engagement there.)

No it's based on disliking several different points Taly has made and not seeing a lot there that I like despite volume. I don't feel like walling tonight, but basically I have a pretty easy time seeing almost every post Taly has made as coming from scum. Titus's posts could go either way but aren't particularly townie

I largely agree with this sentiment.

Those posts were meant to feel unnatural, I'm grasping for a handle on any slot right now read-wise.

I don't like that your focus here is to state that my posts were scummy without actually explaining what the issue you found with them was.

My reply about those posts came

after

your vote.

~Taly

In 133 Taly says he made deliberately unnatural/scummy posts but then acts like I need to explain why the posts he says he crafted to be scummy are scummy

this is not how town plays

Yes, I agree that this felt more of a "you're scum regardless of what you do" kind of thing, and it didn't vibe with me at all.

switching to Samantha here because why?

Yeah, it was very sudden and unexplained. Hence, I pointed this out earlier, and did not really get a satisfactory response to the question.

idk this just seems random for day 1, why is Taly posting so much scum meta? this comes out of nowhere and feels like overcompensating

This is my top scumread by far

Yeah, the meta thing also just appeared out of nowhere, and it did not leave a good impression.

"Scummy" was never used as a term, don't twist it that way.

I wanted to see how people would react, so I make statements that aren't committal to see how people interpret them.

Regardless of this fact, these so called reaction tests are not at all reliable because both town and scum are going to call you out for it, and justifiably so. How did you expect this to help you distinguish between town and scum?

Yeah, it was a big attention grabbing vote to get YOU to post something to the effect of 448 200 posts earlier, without the necessity for ET to pull your teeth for it after you talk around me. (Page 18)

While subtlety can be useful in some cases, I don't think this is a case where it was useful. We are not mind-readers; some things have to be laid out explicitly.

Titus had pings with Sam's posts, so I leaned in on that for the vote whenever Sam chalked the "likely story" post up to a joke 279 because I figured her intention of the wagon might not have been to get BEF to spew because her scumread on him was based around a lack of content. Since she dismissed BEF and never really followed up on him, I thought it possible that her wagon is scum-led. I thought she'd be more present in this thread to resolve her reads by now, and interaction with BEF.

Like I said above, I agree that 279 was kinda bad from samantha and a little bit overly dismissive. That said, samantha expressed legitimate concerns earlier as well, and BrightEyedFish had done nothing to make one reconsider.

Because, HBB said he never saw scum-me, and I linked all my scum games so he can evaluate them.

They did not explicitly ask you to link all these games though, now did they? It still seems a bit random and unnecessary.

Hey so, why is samantha getting wagonned exactly? It seems mostly like low-explaination votes compared to the rest of this game

That's exactly what it was.

The pushback on the samantha wagon but not the BEF wagon is noted. I want to specifically watch Ircher because his defense of Sam seems scummier than the wtf my pointless wagon isn't winning day one ala Gypyx.

This is rich; it's a real stretch to say that there has been very little pushback to the BEF wagon. In fact, I would say that the BEF counterwagon is exactly that: a pushback against the BEF wagon.

Imo Pelican is probably towny for the way they claimed at least, as for the other three I do think Ari should be posting more, TGP idk why he's profiled as low contribution, at least in the same tier as those other 2. He hasn't posted much but imo he has contributed.

Remind me, what was townie about the way they claimed?

Like I really feel like the cagey way they claimed neg-utility is a very towny way to do it, especially if I'm right about something else, something that will probably not be clarifiable until D3.

Oh okay, you gave your reason in the next post. This doesn't really convince me, but to each their own I guess.
---
I'm dividing this into two posts because I know this one is pretty long already.

[Gamma Emerald]

That Ircher wall looks pretty decent tbh

[Ircher]

I have no scumreads or townreads right now.

... Please let us know when that changes...

1) Count how many mentions of people asking for additional reasons on the Sam wagon. I count all that as pushback.

I actually agree with the three slots you find pressure worthy right now.

2) Ircher's defense of Sam looks buddyish or whiteknighting. Not sure but it reeks.

1) I think I've counted maybe... two people ask for additional reasons? (Gamma and myself.) Regardless, the entire Samantha wagon is pushback against the BrightEyedFish wagon, so saying there has been virtually zero pushback against the BrightEyedFish wagon is still wrong.

2) Just going on record to say that I don't think this by itself it is a fair reason to scumread someone. You definitely have more to it than just this, and I expect you to elaborate.

Why are you voting the slot that’s getting replaced :/

I mean, if we're being honest, I think the better question is why not?

Hey

The Pelican Brief

, I am a whimsical-decision away from voting you.

I dare you.

P.S. Your OMGUS is showing. You might want a larger fig leaf.

The topic of conversation fig leaf doesn't seem to be large enough. You got some pretty big OMGUS there.

~Titus

OMGUS or not, this post surely doesn't help (and didn't help) your case.

What's your BEF read? Your HUB read?

As of right now:

BEF --> Initially leaned towards very scummy for refusing to interact with the game, but I've come to the conclusion that the slot is just lazy in general. His more recent posts are slightly better, but marginally so.

HUB --> They have decent reads, and I've largely agreed with many of their points against your slot.

I have no scumreads or townreads right now.

"I didn't read the thread"

I think pelican's posts have been consistently illogical, regardless of which head is doing the posting. I was being really charitable before because of their role claim (like thinking taly really didn't understand a joke), but there's a tipping point. That said, it still doesn't make sense for us to vote for them today.

VOTE: NicoRobin

To a certain extent, I agree with the idea that Pelican's posts have been illogical. First, it was the Taly head, and more recently, the roles have reversed, and it is the Titus head that is being illogical.

I do think the NicoRobin vote here is rather bad, but it doesn't seem out of the realm of reason. I still don't think we should be considering fading this slot.

Ircher, what is your take on HUB's 448?

I think it's obvious by this point, but I largely think 448 was a really reasonable and good take.

Hi, Samantha. Nicorobin to you too.

first, thanks for the laugh

second, the reason why I didn't talk about being voted, and have no intention to beyond this, is because that's purely a distraction from my point of view (though I did answer questions because people kept asking stuff)

third, I read this game with noraa in it https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84118 where she was mafia and her tone is a lot different here

but you people know each other a lot better than I do, so if you think she's mafia then I'm fine with that; it'd be super cool if nico and thegoldenparadox would post more before the day is over though

I think the implicit defense of the Tsunami slot here is the most suspicious thing I've seen from samantha. A lot of other stuff can be chalked off to other factors that do not relate to the slot's alignment.

nope yeah VOTE: tsunami is scum and that replace out was :^/

Was this all you had to say from the last 300 or so posts since your previous post? Nothing else caught your eye?

I don't get the impression that I'm being read in good faith. :/

~Taly

What makes you think that?

also i think that tsunami/vax + samantha are viable together due to samantha's lukewarm reaction to the wagon on tsunami

I do agree that if Tsunami flips scum, it's worth (for me anyway) reevaluating samantha's alignment.

Anyone got any read on Ircher? I find his iso lengthy but not really readable, which isn't really great tbh

It's probably not super readable because I am doing lots of quote walls. I guess I could divide it up more, but then, I would basically start spamming the thread. Thus, it's a choice between two evils, so I have gone with the quote wall strategy.

like, earlier my solve was like ircher/samantha are never scum together

Where does this come from?

ircher's defense of samantha in 335 and 340, especially given that ircher called samantha null in 159; there's no progression there.

Yes, reads evolve. Anyway, I think the defense is less so based on samantha's posts so much as the justifications for the votes on samantha being very ???. One must be flexible and reactant to changing circumstances.

even if you don't want to fade nico, it's concerning that you are against pressuring a player that is deliberately not participating

Friendly tip about the NicoRobin slot: pressuring them is going to do absolutely nothing.

Just accept I am town and don't try to fade me anymore please.

Do you expect us to do this just because you asked?

VOTE: BEF

enjoy the fresh air vax, taylor will probably torment you though
-shelly

bad shelly!
*smacks shelly on the nose (gently) with a newspaper*
that is a very bad shelly!

VOTE: vaxkiller

-tay if you couldnt deduce that this wasnt shelly

(I think we would prefer it if you worked your cognitive dissonance out in your hydra PT. This changing of votes because of dissonance can clutter things later when things like VCA become more important/meaningful.)

[Ircher]

VOTE: Bell

Haven't really seen anything I liked from Bell, and I keep going back and forth on Pelican honestly. Sometimes, I think they are reaching and illogical scum. Other times, they seem decent/making strides to solving the game and are just misguided to an extent.

BEF and samantha are both currently in my "do not fade D1" category for various ~reasons~.

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean, if we're being honest, I think the better question is why not?

I think I said this already but I felt like whatever the intent of the vote the timing wasn’t great

[TheGoldenParadox]

Was this all you had to say from the last 300 or so posts since your previous post? Nothing else caught your eye?

honestly, yeah. i'm actively reading this game to an extent, but there's not a lot of individual content catching my eye. i'll be able to read much better once tsunami flips, i think.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is a player who is now not in the game such a barrier to your ability to form reads?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Why is a player who is now not in the game such a barrier to your ability to form reads?

vaxkiller flips. sorry.

i have reads, i've posted them. i just feel that we've gotten the content we need to out of today, and continuing is antitown and unhelpful. let's elim vax and continue.

[The Pelican Brief]

Ircher

, I'll get to the rest of your points later, hopefully tomorrow.

I don't get the impression that I'm being read in good faith. :/

~Taly

What makes you think that?

I could link posts but I don't think that's productive, honestly.

I also think that the majority of response to my personal posts aren't toward analysis I make of the game (ones where I give reads and explain them). It's based around entrance, votes or approaches I use to solve, and people parroting what someone else said.

Upon more thought, I understand the grievances with some of my pushes/thoughts, and I will return to those points too.

I'm frustrated with the narrative that both

Titus

and I are illogical. You're not the first person who said that and this narrative reads as dismissive because it's just a way to diminish the input of this hydra without having to do the work to solve it.

If you think that I could be town at any point in this game and I am misguided, I want you to engage with me on what I am not seeing.

~Taly

[The Pelican Brief]

I will probably take a mental health day tomorrow, haha. I've been very high effort with this game so far.

I don't want to leave the thread tonight talking about my vexes, so here's some cute gifs

<3

~Taly

[Vaxkiller]

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII'mm IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN! Wot woot!

Whats going on who we voting? Lets do this! Catch me up!