Death Curse

Flea The Magician · Post Post #8125 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:17 pm

Side note: Pronouns please

UNOwen · Post Post #8126 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:09 am

Still not cursed, still ain't me.

Re: Noraa paranoia, if it helps the last game I played Noraa-shelly almost won because they went for a hard distancing strategy and shelly was trusted on that basis. The way she ran around day one declaring Noraa was confirmed scum but never really tried to convince anyone of it strongly reminded me of that.

Is it unlikely? Sure. Is it as unlikely as MC!scum, Bell!scum or Gloria!scum? Not IMO.

It's tough, because I do think it is probably just Pooky/Fidget and this is all for nothing. But while I can see either of them as scum, I don't strongly believe either is and from my perspective both were doomed anyway so it made sense for me to play to cover the one remaining risk that I could imagine.

Anyway, I've explained my motivation. If you think it is too mad to be real then fair enough. I've pointed out that if scum I must've been playing as though I was third party, with the total lack of mercy I have shown the scum so far. I've also pointed out that this is especially unlikely from me considering how I played my one actual scum game. There's nothing else to say, except maybe I'd suggest rereading the shelly interaction and asking if it really looks like I had an agenda.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8127 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:38 am

Spoiler:

Owno, I can’t be scum here anymore than Flea can be or the game would already be over.. Last scum never gets the scroll, they just die.

Btw @Flea, that is precisely what I meant by “told you so”,

that I’m town

. I’m under the impression that was misconstrued to mean something else by multiple people, so it obviously wasn’t “gloating”.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8128 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:45 am

Anyway @Owno, if you don’t have a read on either Fidget or Pooky, this won’t help me with my decision, because wi hard tr everyone else in the game and if I don’t scroll you, then it’s either Fidget or Pooky. Noraa is and has been mu most confident tr for a very long time now, so it’s not her, for multiple reasons. Plus town!Tayl0r who considers herself to be the Noraa whisperer is confident she’s town.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8129 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:51 am

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34498

Owno scumgame. Owno, I haven’t looked up any of your towngames but you don’t sound at all different here.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8130 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:55 am

In post 8129, Gloria Cleary wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34498

Owno scumgame.

Owno, I haven’t looked up any of your towngames but you don’t sound at all different here.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34498

Owno towngame.

There are some players who meta may be thoroughly useless on and you may be one of them, because I can’t see any difference between these two games.

Flea The Magician · Post Post #8131 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:04 am

In post 8127, Gloria Cleary wrote: Btw @Flea, that is precisely what I meant by “told you so”,
that I’m town
. I’m under the impression that was misconstrued to mean something else by multiple people, so it obviously wasn’t “gloating”.

You're still at this...
You taunt me into giving you the scroll, then rub it in that my ever so slightly suspicious read of you from wanting the scroll from the moment I have it, was wrong.

Honestly at this point, just get in the bin. I've given you opportunity to show you're a better person, I've attempted to move onwards, I've passed over the wrong pronoun usage as accidental instead of it being a microaggression with friendly reminder, I've moved on from it... and you're still at it.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8132 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:06 am

@Flea, I just realized you’re an actual newbie to mafia. I didn’t know that, so now I really feel bad for what I said. You’ve actually played exceptionally well here, now that I realize that.

When I played my first mafia game ever, I think I played it like Survivor or Big Brother. I sucked horribly in my games for an extremely long time and was heavily sr very frequently. You’re playing much much better than I ever did with your level of experience.

Please don’t let my stupid insensitive comment discourage you in the slightest.

Fidget · Post Post #8133 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:08 am

In post 8126, UNOwen wrote:Noraa paranoia, if it helps the last game I played Noraa-shelly almost won because they went for a hard distancing strategy and shelly was trusted on that basis. The way she ran around day one declaring Noraa was confirmed scum but never really tried to convince anyone of it strongly reminded me of that.

No one really listened to shelly's scumread on Noraa in that game past the first few of D1, and Noraa was highly townread by the end of day one, with shelly agreeing if I recall correctly. They did a lot of fighting without a lot of substance.

Was shelly really not trying to convince anyone on Noraa this game? Hm. Fred certainly was, so there's that. I believe shelly mostly kept her vote away from Noraa, but she took pot shots at her constantly (like this one)

In post 3810, shellyc wrote:also I would be happy with a Noraa lethal that slot still floundering

It's not terribly unlike how I'd expect shelly to approach town Noraa. She probably expected Noraa to die down the line, but didn't want to be seen as the *main* driver for it. Which she wouldn't have been, I don't think.

Contrast that with her behavior towards Fred which was a total red flag for me:

In post 4230, shellyc wrote:
In post 4227, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.
Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

Flea The Magician · Post Post #8134 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:11 am

I have some IRL experience, and my usual group is full of actors and LARPers, we played in person. This format is much, much different to what I'm used to.

Moderating the games was fun, I hope to bring some of the weird and wonderful flavour from the IRL games to here eventually.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8135 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:12 am

In post 8131, Flea The Magician wrote:
In post 8127, Gloria Cleary wrote: Btw @Flea, that is precisely what I meant by “told you so”,
that I’m town
. I’m under the impression that was misconstrued to mean something else by multiple people, so it obviously wasn’t “gloating”.

You're still at this...
You taunt me into giving you the scroll, then rub it in that my ever so slightly suspicious read of you from wanting the scroll from the moment I have it, was wrong.

Honestly at this point, just get in the bin. I've given you opportunity to show you're a better person, I've attempted to move onwards, I've passed over the wrong pronoun usage as accidental instead of it being a microaggression with friendly reminder, I've moved on from it... and you're still at it.

@Flea, you’ve wrongly accused me of making personal attacks but it’s you who’s doing this now. The “malicious” comment was borderline but this is extremely close to outright character assassination. I didn’t nor have I ever intentionally misgendered anyone on this site or anywhere else for that matter. I did not intentionally mispronounce you.

You really need to stop throwing out false accusations at me. This really is not okay, please stop.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8136 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:15 am

I was very wrong about criticizing your play. That was in no way acceptable but it isn’t a personal attack. I still regret saying it and I’m still sorry but please stop accusing me and attacking my character. That is in no way acceptable.

Flea The Magician · Post Post #8137 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:16 am

Calling it as I see and feel it.

At no point is any of that an attack, except for "You're still at this/it" and "get in the bin."

I have accused you of nothing in that post.

Flea The Magician · Post Post #8138 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:18 am

Honestly, I wouldn't even say that observing "you're still at it" is an attack... but I can understand how it would be seen as such.

Flea The Magician · Post Post #8139 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:20 am

Some people just don't get on, I suggest you accept that we are 2 such people, see this game out.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8140 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:30 am

In post 8133, Fidget wrote:
In post 8126, UNOwen wrote:Noraa paranoia, if it helps the last game I played Noraa-shelly almost won because they went for a hard distancing strategy and shelly was trusted on that basis. The way she ran around day one declaring Noraa was confirmed scum but never really tried to convince anyone of it strongly reminded me of that.
No one really listened to shelly's scumread on Noraa in that game past the first few of D1, and Noraa was highly townread by the end of day one, with shelly agreeing if I recall correctly. They did a lot of fighting without a lot of substance.

Was shelly really not trying to convince anyone on Noraa this game? Hm. Fred certainly was, so there's that. I believe shelly mostly kept her vote away from Noraa, but she took pot shots at her constantly (like this one)
In post 3810, shellyc wrote:also I would be happy with a Noraa lethal that slot still floundering
It's not terribly unlike how I'd expect shelly to approach town Noraa. She probably expected Noraa to die down the line, but didn't want to be seen as the *main* driver for it. Which she wouldn't have been, I don't think.

Contrast that with her behavior towards Fred which was a total red flag for me:
In post 4230, shellyc wrote:
In post 4227, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:You know, with 17 players left in this game, I really would appreciate it if everyone only post if they have something meaningful to say. Below is an example of completely inessential conversation that could have been done using the site chat. Please use the site chat for conversations like this. You won't get banned. It's not game related.
Fredrick: complains about no game advancing content
Fredrick again: Doesn't give game advancing content at all

lol
fred order these names from town->scum NOW
fidget
taylor
theta
bell
gloria

Scum!Fred doesn’t give the scroll to LLD if Noraa’s a buddy. I towncased her early and I’m like 99.99999% sure she’s town here. Plus, I totally trust town!Tayl0r’s read on her.

Also, Shelley tried to get her scrolled on D1. She was almost hammered iirc. If there’s a deep wolf, it’s not Noraa but I really don’t think there even is one and without overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I’m really not sure how this is even productive?

This is how scum wins. They stir up paranoia and get town to canabalize itself.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8141 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:32 am

In post 8138, Flea The Magician wrote:Honestly, I wouldn't even say that observing "you're still at it" is an attack... but I can understand how it would be seen as such.

It’s the “better person” comment. That is what’s bordering on character assassination.

Fidget · Post Post #8142 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:36 am

In post 8140, Gloria Cleary wrote:This is how scum wins. They stir up paranoia and get town to canabalize itself.

Well I mean, it doesn't really matter if he's scum stirring up paranoia because he can't win after he's dead. I'll still listen to what he has to say. With the way I see it currently though, I don't see a case for Noraa.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8143 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:39 am

Oh sorry @Fidget, I clearly misread your post.

You’re obviously still agreeing with me on Noraa!town.

What do all of you make of Owno still thinking Flea or myself could still be scum here? When he said that about Flea, Pooky set him straight but now he’s also suggesting there’s still a possibility that I could still be scum. Genuine townslip or fake?

Because people continue to say that the last scum here never gets the scroll but he seems to be ignoring that for some reason?

Fidget · Post Post #8144 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:40 am

Towncasing myself... let me see....

I don't.. think I ever really townread a single flipped scum player across the course this game. I gave Titus a bit of space between the rest of my PoE due to a couple people saying she was on her town meta, and I wrongfully called Titus/DGB disaligned.

My mistakes were mostly in wrongfully scumreading Noraa and Adorable. I suspect that as scum, I would have taken a more confident stance on Noraa one way or the other, and

definitely

would not have returned Adorable to my townpool after scumreading there so long. Possibly same for Noraa, although not sure. I feel like if I were scum I'd have much too counter to my partners to really be sane play. I am generally an unsure busser, as I don't want to upset my teammates, so I'd have to be pretty sure they're okay with it.

Specific to Adorable, I would have definitely started pushing her after the Theta miselim and tried to construe that as bad looking for her if possible. But I kinda forgot Adorable existed in favor of shelly for a while there? Speaking of that..

The 3 day long shelly 1v1, lol. There was a period where I could have wavered on her (I seem to recall Murder, Gloria, Pooky? and others calling her town at some points), possibly multiple periods I'm not sure. I was content to essentially keep my vote on her continuously without really thinking much about other options. I guess I can't really prove it but I would never take a route like that as scum, I would leave open the option of letting her off, jeez.

Pretty sure shelly was trying to set me up to die after the Fred wagon here

In post 4928, Fidget wrote:{Lady}
{Pooky, Noraa, Mushy}
{Gloria, Murdercat, Bell}
{Titus}
{Taylor, shellyc, Lapsa(DGB), Flea, UNOwen, Fred, Adorable}

No love for my scummates, I guess. To be fair! DGB adopted a strategy like that:

Spoiler:

Although, I suppose she didn't have much of a choice with shelly, Titus was a desperation play, and Noraa was obviously still her strongest, incorrect read.

It seems to me that if I'm scum, I made no attempt to actually win the game almost at all. Maybe the Adorable push, but I dropped Adorable at the critical moments of the game in favor of, everyone else. Fred, shelly, Titus. Every time. Not even in a compromise way.

It'd make more sense if I was close to the top of the town list and had a shot at a deepwolf win, but I feel as if I've been dancing with death almost the entirety of this game, so that isn't really the case.

But sure, maybe I'm just kinda bad at scum, and I am! (although I don't know why I'd try so much bussing). This towncase is really only stronger than possibly UNOwen's, but no more than that.

I'm sleepy.

Fidget · Post Post #8145 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:44 am

In post 8143, Gloria Cleary wrote:What do all of you make of Owno still thinking Flea or myself could still be scum here? When he said that about Flea, Pooky set him straight but now he’s also suggesting there’s still a possibility that I could still be scum. Genuine townslip or fake?

Because people continue to say that the last scum here never gets the scroll but he seems to be ignoring that for some reason?

Oh, is that what he meant by this?

In post 8126, UNOwen wrote:Is it unlikely? Sure. Is it as unlikely as MC!scum, Bell!scum or Gloria!scum? Not IMO.

I have no idea what's going through his head there exactly.. but I think it's more of a slip he missed this than an alignment-indictative one. Although I may be biased at this point because I struggle to see it being anyone but him.

Flea The Magician · Post Post #8146 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:48 am

Put it back in context, to show me that you're a better person. This is entirely reflective of my view, and my view alone.

UNOwen · Post Post #8147 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:51 am

In post 8127, Gloria Cleary wrote: Owno, I can’t be scum here anymore than Flea can be or the game would already be over.. Last scum never gets the scroll, they just die.

Yes I know, I was talking from my perspective at the start of this day.

Gloria Cleary · Post Post #8148 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:53 am

In post 8142, Fidget wrote:
In post 8140, Gloria Cleary wrote:This is how scum wins. They stir up paranoia and get town to canabalize itself.
Well I mean, it doesn't really matter if he's scum stirring up paranoia because he can't win after he's dead. I'll still listen to what he has to say. With the way I see it currently though, I don't see a case for Noraa.

Yeah neither do I. If I was still in the game, I would never scroll Noraa. But what Owno is doing by suggesting theirs still a possibility of either me or Flea flipping scum + Noraa paranoia + his extreme reluctance to ever get the scroll, still ping me the most. He did explain that, so I feel a bit better but the associatives with his slot & scum are the strongest imo.

That Zeneck post I quoted where he tried to push Noraa and Owno as buddies, is extremely pinging. Scum frequently does this. Push an lhf townie as a teammate of one of their buddies and I kind of disagree on Pooky’s read of it. It think it could have definitely been scum theatre.

He had three names as scum:Noraa, Owno and Bell and there was nothing suspicious about his interactions with either Bell or Noraa but I could definitely see Zedeneck/Owno interactions as scum theatre as I could with Shelley.

Otoh, scum interactions with Pooky look like scum positioning around his slot and Fred/you looked like he was tmi!towning you. You are also being extremely solvey and it’s difficult to imagine you being this good at faking that.

Yeah, nothing has convinced me to switch my vote. I still think it’s most likely Owno.

Fidget · Post Post #8149 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 am

In post 8147, UNOwen wrote:
In post 8127, Gloria Cleary wrote: Owno, I can’t be scum here anymore than Flea can be or the game would already be over.. Last scum never gets the scroll, they just die.
Yes I know, I was talking from my perspective at the start of this day.

Ah. That makes much more sense. Good night, everyone.