Death Curse

[UNOwen]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34498

Owno scumgame. Owno, I haven’t looked up any of your towngames but you don’t sound at all different here.

Yes I agree, there is no difference in how I post between that game and my subsequent ones. The point wasn't about posting style, but how I would interact with my potential teammates. I suggested reading the pt for that game, and seeing if you think that I'm the type of player who would try to win by throwing all of my partners under the bus.

[Gloria Cleary]

Put it back in context, to show me that you're a better person. This is entirely reflective of my view, and my view alone.

You aren’t discussing my behaviour here, you’re specifically referencing my character. I know I’m already a good person and I don’t require you or anyone else to tell me that. I have zero interest in ever discussing my character with you or anyone else. My behaviour is a different matter entirely.

[UNOwen]

Was shelly really not trying to convince anyone on Noraa this game? Hm. Fred certainly was, so there's that. I believe shelly mostly kept her vote away from Noraa, but she took pot shots at her constantly (like this one)

also I would be happy with a Noraa lethal that slot still floundering

It's not terribly unlike how I'd expect shelly to approach town Noraa. She probably expected Noraa to die down the line, but didn't want to be seen as the *main* driver for it. Which she wouldn't have been, I don't think.

You've actually highlighted one of the posts that sparked my worry, because if you look at it in context shelly only posted that after I posted this:

We all see shelly making no attempt to convince Vax to pass the scroll to "practically confirmed scum" (or whatever hyperbole she was using) Noraa right?

Also my memory may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure shelly still had Noraa as a scum read by the end of day 1 in that game. Day 2 Noraa had been exposed by night actions so isn't relevant.

[Gloria Cleary]

Owno, I can’t be scum here anymore than Flea can be or the game would already be over.. Last scum never gets the scroll, they just die.

Yes I know, I was talking from my perspective at the start of this day.

Well that is definitely good to know. The thing is that I have to scroll someone and unless I see another player who in my mind as greater scum equity than you, I will be sticking with my scroll. If you want me to change it, you need to convince that someone not you has greater scum equity and right now, I’m not seeing it.

[Flea The Magician]

Put it back in context, to show me that you're a better person. This is entirely reflective of my view, and my view alone.

You aren’t discussing my behaviour here, you’re specifically referencing my character. I know I’m already a good person and I don’t require you or anyone else to tell me that. I have zero interest in ever discussing my character with you or anyone else. My behaviour is a different matter entirely.

That's entirely fair, however, all I have to gauge you on is your behavior.

As I said, the best option currently is to accept we are two people who simply will not get along. It happens. It is no reflection on either of us being good or bad, it is simply the way it is.

[Gloria Cleary]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34498

Owno scumgame. Owno, I haven’t looked up any of your towngames but you don’t sound at all different here.

Yes I agree, there is no difference in how I post between that game and my subsequent ones. The point wasn't about posting style, but how I would interact with my potential teammates. I suggested reading the pt for that game, and seeing if you think that I'm the type of player who would try to win by throwing all of my partners under the bus.

The obvious problem here is whomever the last scum is, did exactly that, so everyone left in the game could make that exact same argument.

[Gloria Cleary]

Put it back in context, to show me that you're a better person. This is entirely reflective of my view, and my view alone.

You aren’t discussing my behaviour here, you’re specifically referencing my character. I know I’m already a good person and I don’t require you or anyone else to tell me that. I have zero interest in ever discussing my character with you or anyone else. My behaviour is a different matter entirely.

That's entirely fair, however, all I have to gauge you on is your behavior.

As I said, the best option currently is to accept we are two people who simply will not get along. It happens. It is no reflection on either of us being good or bad, it is simply the way it is.

This I can definitely agree with. I think that’s probably the case, we just aren’t understanding each other. Perhaps but it’s a lot to assume based solely on one game though it’s of course possible. Some conflicts can eventually be worked out where as others cannot.

[UNOwen]

Anyway @Owno, if you don’t have a read on either Fidget or Pooky, this won’t help me with my decision, because wi hard tr everyone else in the game and if I don’t scroll you, then it’s either Fidget or Pooky. Noraa is and has been mu most confident tr for a very long time now, so it’s not her, for multiple reasons. Plus town!Tayl0r who considers herself to be the Noraa whisperer is confident she’s town.

My read on Pooky is that tonally he is town, but of the remaining players his play makes most sense for him to be scum. He tunneled Taylor for reasons I never understood, and defended shelly based on some pretty flimsy reasoning. He was on board with Fred/Titus/DGB executions but lead the charge on none of them. He also still has a chance at victory with the current dynamics of the thread, and he may be arguing for my survival because he wants to take a paranoid scroll holder into endgame.

Fidget could be scum, but I agree with her argument that if she is then she has made no attempt to win so I expect she isn't.

[Gloria Cleary]

Was shelly really not trying to convince anyone on Noraa this game? Hm. Fred certainly was, so there's that. I believe shelly mostly kept her vote away from Noraa, but she took pot shots at her constantly (like this one)

also I would be happy with a Noraa lethal that slot still floundering

It's not terribly unlike how I'd expect shelly to approach town Noraa. She probably expected Noraa to die down the line, but didn't want to be seen as the *main* driver for it. Which she wouldn't have been, I don't think.

You've actually highlighted one of the posts that sparked my worry, because if you look at it in context shelly only posted that after I posted this:

We all see shelly making no attempt to convince Vax to pass the scroll to "practically confirmed scum" (or whatever hyperbole she was using) Noraa right?

Also my memory may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure shelly still had Noraa as a scum read by the end of day 1 in that game. Day 2 Noraa had been exposed by night actions so isn't relevant.

Town!Tayl0r had an extremely confident tr on her plus why does scum!Fred scroll LLD who had Noraa as her top sr? No, I don’t believe Noraa is ever scum here and I’m definitely not giving her the scroll.

[UNOwen]

The obvious problem here is whomever the last scum is, did exactly that, so everyone left in the game could make that exact same argument.

Is that true of Pooky? As I said, he tried to defuse me v shelly as TvT.

Also the specific argument is that it's really unlikely that in one scum game I check if it's ok to throw even one softball question at my partner and then in my very next I decide that every one of my teammates are to go overboard without mercy.

[UNOwen]

Town!Tayl0r had an extremely confident tr on her plus why does scum!Fred scroll LLD who had Noraa as her top sr? No, I don’t believe Noraa is ever scum here and I’m definitely not giving her the scroll.

I'm not asking you to. Noraa should never be given the scroll before Pooky or Fidget. I'm just explaining why I was worried that if we had a deep wolf it was most likely her.

[Gloria Cleary]

Anyway @Owno, if you don’t have a read on either Fidget or Pooky, this won’t help me with my decision, because wi hard tr everyone else in the game and if I don’t scroll you, then it’s either Fidget or Pooky. Noraa is and has been mu most confident tr for a very long time now, so it’s not her, for multiple reasons. Plus town!Tayl0r who considers herself to be the Noraa whisperer is confident she’s town.

My read on Pooky is that tonally he is town, but of the remaining players his play makes most sense for him to be scum. He tunneled Taylor for reasons I never understood, and defended shelly based on some pretty flimsy reasoning. He was on board with Fred/Titus/DGB executions but lead the charge on none of them. He also still has a chance at victory with the current dynamics of the thread, and he may be arguing for my survival because he wants to take a paranoid scroll holder into endgame.

Fidget could be scum, but I agree with her argument that if she is then she has made no attempt to win so I expect she isn't.

That is a fair point but he knows if game doesn’t end today, he’s getting the scroll either first or second tomorrow, so he seems pretty chill about that if he’s scum here. Why is Pooky not leading any scum wagons AI for him?

[Gloria Cleary]

The obvious problem here is whomever the last scum is, did exactly that, so everyone left in the game could make that exact same argument.

Is that true of Pooky? As I said, he tried to defuse me v shelly as TvT.

Also the specific argument is that it's really unlikely that in one scum game I check if it's ok to throw even one softball question at my partner and then in my very next I decide that every one of my teammates are to go overboard without mercy.

But when were you an active agent towards anyone other than Shelley? Bell took an active role in leading scum wagons but sorry if I’m wrong but Shelley is literally the only flipped scum I recall you pushing.

[UNOwen]

That is a fair point but he knows if game doesn’t end today, he’s getting the scroll either first or second tomorrow, so he seems pretty chill about that if he’s scum here. Why is Pooky not leading any scum wagons AI for him?

That's true for all of me/Fidget/Pooky, and scum haven't conceded so if there's scum among us they obviously think things will change.

I don't know Pooky's meta to know if leading wagons on scum is AI for him or not, I just generally think that the player who has pushed for scum executions is less likely to be scum than the player who hasn't doing that.

[Gloria Cleary]

That is a fair point but he knows if game doesn’t end today, he’s getting the scroll either first or second tomorrow, so he seems pretty chill about that if he’s scum here. Why is Pooky not leading any scum wagons AI for him?

That's true for all of me/Fidget/Pooky, and scum haven't conceded so if there's scum among us they obviously think things will change.

I don't know Pooky's meta to know if leading wagons on scum is AI for him or not, I just generally think that the player who has pushed for scum executions is less likely to be scum than the player who hasn't doing that.

Well you’ve just demonstrated why Bell is obvtown but he’s not in my PoE so that again isn’t helping me.

[UNOwen]

But when were you an active agent towards anyone other than Shelley? Bell took an active role in leading scum wagons but sorry if I’m wrong but Shelley is literally the only flipped scum I recall you pushing.

I mean, DGB + Titus just collapsed quickly so no-one really lead there. But if you think back, DGB was bussing Titus, Titus had attacked me, so if we were all scum it would make sense for me to side with DGB over Titus but instead I said DGB was my first choice for scum when MUSH asked me. I think it's fair to say I've been pushing for shelly's death for a long time. I think it's also fair to say I started day 2 saying I'm always happy to kill one scum player, but I'd also be happy to kill a second. I think it's fair to note that when Toog was the compromise wagon on day 1, I suggested a policy execution on Lapsa instead. Pooky has never pushed hard for a scum player to be killed, and he has spent the majority of this game trying to get a now confirmed town player killed.

[UNOwen]

Well you’ve just demonstrated why Bell is obvtown but he’s not in my PoE so that again isn’t helping me.

I feel fairly comfortable saying that if you review my ISO v Pooky's, you will find that I have been trying to get scum eliminated far more than he has.

[Gloria Cleary]

But when were you an active agent towards anyone other than Shelley? Bell took an active role in leading scum wagons but sorry if I’m wrong but Shelley is literally the only flipped scum I recall you pushing.

I mean, DGB + Titus just collapsed quickly so no-one really lead there. But if you think back, DGB was bussing Titus, Titus had attacked me, so if we were all scum it would make sense for me to side with DGB over Titus but instead I said DGB was my first choice for scum when MUSH asked me. I think it's fair to say I've been pushing for shelly's death for a long time. I think it's also fair to say I started day 2 saying I'm always happy to kill one scum player, but I'd also be happy to kill a second. I think it's fair to note that when Toog was the compromise wagon on day 1, I suggested a policy execution on Lapsa instead. Pooky has never pushed hard for a scum player to be killed, and he has spent the majority of this game trying to get a now confirmed town player killed.

Can you back this up with quotes?

[Gloria Cleary]

Well you’ve just demonstrated why Bell is obvtown but he’s not in my PoE so that again isn’t helping me.

I feel fairly comfortable saying that if you review my ISO v Pooky's, you will find that I have been trying to get scum eliminated far more than he has.

It would really help me to see quotes of where you did this?

[UNOwen]

It would really help me to see quotes of where you did this?

What do you want, all the times I said to kill shelly, the way I was on board with voting Fred without any resistance, the bit were I suggested policy'ing Lapsa, where I said I thought DGB was scum, all of it?

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat it has been an honor to play with you <3

Always a pleasure Pooky

[Flea The Magician]

My problem, UNO, is your pride in good coming off your RVS vote on Noraa, and even at this stage of the game, you're not happy to townlock Noraa.

Your resistance to dismantling the townblock to look at it closer is questionable, despite it being quite clear at this stage and forseen by Mush that it would need to be done.

Who is your Final 4, why? If you're scum, who would you shoot, why?

[MURDERCAT]

I was kind of hoping that the 3 pages I hadn't read were the beginning of post game. Gloria we have to kill uno because he is the only one doubting Noraa and we can't let him scroll there.

[UNOwen]

My problem, UNO, is your pride in good coming off your RVS vote on Noraa, and even at this stage of the game, you're not happy to townlock Noraa.

Your resistance to dismantling the townblock to look at it closer is questionable, despite it being quite clear at this stage and forseen by Mush that it would need to be done.

Who is your Final 4, why? If you're scum, who would you shoot, why?

My reads have been consistent the entire way through. Gloria/Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa were my top town with Noraa as the one I was shaky on. With Gloria removed then in a choice between Pooky/Fidget I trust Fidget more.

Don't understand the second question.

[Gloria Cleary]

It would really help me to see quotes of where you did this?

What do you want, all the times I said to kill shelly, the way I was on board with voting Fred without any resistance, the bit were I suggested policy'ing Lapsa, where I said I thought DGB was scum, all of it?

Whatever you like because without quotes, there’s no evidence.

The thing is Owno, two of you, Pooky and Fidget are getting the scroll tomorrow first and second. You’re not making it past then and you have shown no interest in receiving the scroll.

Because there’s only one scum left, there’s zero danger of scum being able to scroll anyone, so if I hypothetically shoot either Pooky or Fidget instead of you, you aren’t making past second scroll tomorrow anyway.