stop fakeclaiming as town!: the case for lynch all liars

[NoPowerOverMe]

How about fake vig shots

[Jake The Wolfie]

As a scum player at heart, I'll always take town shrouded in paranoia over some bits of info about who has what role or what they did during some nights

Ah, but that paranoia would also exist even with a truthful town, since the town don't know who they can trust.

[Ramcius]

As a scum player at heart, I'll always take town shrouded in paranoia over some bits of info about who has what role or what they did during some nights

Ah, but that paranoia would also exist even with a truthful town, since the town don't know who they can trust.

I would more likely to trust someone who I know said true in past and I'm very likely to ignore everything that comes from person who likes fakeclaims and gambits

[Jake The Wolfie]

I would more likely to trust someone who I know said true in past and I'm very likely to ignore everything that comes from person who likes fakeclaims and gambits

Then you're not scumreading them for lying, you're ignoring them because they are continuing a trend of lies.

[Ramcius]

I would more likely to trust someone who I know said true in past and I'm very likely to ignore everything that comes from person who likes fakeclaims and gambits

Then you're not scumreading them for lying, you're ignoring them because they are continuing a trend of lies.

You know, when you TR someone and you want execute them same time, it isn't healthy for a game, also, if I can't trust someone, I'm losing on info, if that person is being truthful. Another thing that other people will scumread them and they would clog thread with it while people who TR liar would fight first group. In the end you'll misexecute someone in the end, because you had not enough time to actually find scum due both groups bickering. I've seen that happen too many times

[Jake The Wolfie]

I would more likely to trust someone who I know said true in past and I'm very likely to ignore everything that comes from person who likes fakeclaims and gambits

Then you're not scumreading them for lying, you're ignoring them because they are continuing a trend of lies.

You know, when you TR someone and you want execute them same time, it isn't healthy for a game, also, if I can't trust someone, I'm losing on info, if that person is being truthful. Another thing that other people will scumread them and they would clog thread with it while people who TR liar would fight first group. In the end you'll misexecute someone in the end, because you had not enough time to actually find scum due both groups bickering. I've seen that happen too many times

That's not explicitly caused by LaL vs non-LaL, though.
Firstly, you start the response by advocating against Policy execution, which I admire, but isn't really relevant.
Any town which is divided on whether someone is scummy or not will probably misexe, regardless of the reasons, because people have different evidentary standards that have to be met before they will believe.

[Elbirn]

"people only lie when they're bad" is child-tier reasoning

[Gamma Emerald]

I just had a game where I lied as much as I reasonably could about my actions in a situation where I was conftown. Honestly you should definitely lie if you have the social capital to not get yeeted after it’s revealed and you’re not just being a troll or a jerk by doing so. Lying as town should have some constructive use if you’re going to try to do it.

[Awoo]

IDK about forum, but on chatroom mafia, you can make tons of big brain roleswaps, fakeclaims and deceptive tactics to steamroll mafia. Rarely ever seen it backfire.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Don’t fake guilties and don’t fakeclaim masons. The first may result in a misexecute and the second can falsely inno scum. Both hurt your credibility in future games.

Also read the setup. Never ever fakeclaim any non-existent role or possible modification in an open or possibly semi-open setup. You will get busted. I disagree wrt to drawing the NK, if you’re vt in a game with important PR. I personally have never done this but we won my TM game because one of the vts fakeclaimed doc tpr. I think it’s really a case don’t do it unless you really understand exactly what you’re doing but I 100% oppose fake guilties and fake mason claims. Both harm game integrity and people won’t trust you when you have an actual guilty on a player or if you’re a real mason, so definitely don’t do that.

[Nero Cain]

Doing a gambit is mostly playing against your team and mafia is a team game. Scum already know that you are a town slot so trying to fool scum is a fools errand. Things like a hinting @ being a pr to eat a night kill seem like it would be ok. But if you do decide to do a gambit then getting mad when people suspect you of being scum is the dumbest thing ever.

[Nero Cain]

the rule of thumb is don't do gambits b/c most ppl are bad @ them. Slayers gambit is stupid as fuck and only level one do that.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Both hurt your credibility in future games.

Why should I care about my credibility in future games, if I should be playing to win this specific game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Both hurt your credibility in future games.

Why should I care about my credibility in future games, if I should be playing to win this specific game?

If you lie about faking a guilty or being a mason, no one will believe when it’s actually true. Hrnce,

The Boy Who Cried Wolf

type of thing because META.

[Jake The Wolfie]

If you lie about faking a guilty or being a mason, no one will believe when it’s actually true. Hrnce, The Boy Who Cried Wolf type of thing because META.

So.. I shouldn't do something... because it will damage my meta..

which will affect future games

.

Why should I care about future games?

[Alchemist21]

If you lie about faking a guilty or being a mason, no one will believe when it’s actually true. Hrnce, The Boy Who Cried Wolf type of thing because META.

So.. I shouldn't do something... because it will damage my meta..

which will affect future games

.

Why should I care about future games?

That was just a point on top of the bigger point that faking guilties and Masons doesn’t help you win the current game. It hurts you in both the current and future games.

[Jake The Wolfie]

If you lie about faking a guilty or being a mason, no one will believe when it’s actually true. Hrnce, The Boy Who Cried Wolf type of thing because META.

So.. I shouldn't do something... because it will damage my meta..

which will affect future games

.

Why should I care about future games?

That was just a point on top of the bigger point that faking guilties and Masons doesn’t help you win the current game. It hurts you in both the current and future games.

So gambits can hurt you, so what? That's the whole point of a gambit.

[Akarin]

If you fake a cop guilty, you're taking away the part of the game where you argue about your reads (i.e. the whole fun of the game for VTs) and deciding your judgement is all that matters. If you're wrong you threw the game for your team and didn't give them the chance to try, which is terrible. But even if you win, you think you're getting all this glory from your great play but the rest of the town feels robbed of actually getting to play the game.

Team games where one player cares more about their ego than letting the rest of the team actually play the game are no fun whether you win or lose.

Misleading the town about the setup is a different version of the same thing. People are going to come to wrong conclusions and not get to play their best for the sake of you feeling special.

[Jake The Wolfie]

If you fake a cop guilty, you're taking away the part of the game where you argue about your reads (i.e. the whole fun of the game for VTs) and deciding your judgement is all that matters. If you're wrong you threw the game for your team and didn't give them the chance to try, which is terrible. But even if you win, you think you're getting all this glory from your great play but the rest of the town feels robbed of actually getting to play the game.

So you shouldn't lie.. because it will make your team feel bad?

[Ythan]

If you lie about faking a guilty or being a mason, no one will believe when it’s actually true. Hrnce, The Boy Who Cried Wolf type of thing because META.

So.. I shouldn't do something... because it will damage my meta..

which will affect future games

.

Why should I care about future games?

That was just a point on top of the bigger point that faking guilties and Masons doesn’t help you win the current game. It hurts you in both the current and future games.

So gambits can hurt you, so what? That's the whole point of a gambit.

That's half the point. The other is that they might help.

[Jake The Wolfie]

If you lie about faking a guilty or being a mason, no one will believe when it’s actually true. Hrnce, The Boy Who Cried Wolf type of thing because META.

So.. I shouldn't do something... because it will damage my meta..

which will affect future games

.

Why should I care about future games?

That was just a point on top of the bigger point that faking guilties and Masons doesn’t help you win the current game. It hurts you in both the current and future games.

So gambits can hurt you, so what? That's the whole point of a gambit.

That's half the point. The other is that they might help.

Thank you for your correction. Yes, a gambit is meant to be a risky play, there is a lot to gain from pulling it off, and a lot to lose for failing to pull it off.

[Akarin]

So you shouldn't lie.. because it will make your team feel bad?

Yes. Not ruining the game for a majority of the other players in a game people play for fun is a good reason to not do something.

[Jake The Wolfie]

So you shouldn't lie.. because it will make your team feel bad?

Yes. Not ruining the game for a majority of the other players in a game people play for fun is a good reason to not do something.

So why should we then execute someone for lying, instead of making it an official rule to never lie as town?

[Akarin]

So why should we then execute someone for lying, instead of making it an official rule to never lie as town?

Because there are plenty of cases where a small lie isn't ruining the game for anyone and is perfectly reasonable.

Crumbing doctor to try to draw the NK is much different than claiming doctor as VT to get out of being eliminated.
People like reaction tests and they don't really do any harm.
I'm sure you could come up with tons of small lies that no one would think would ruin a game and it'd be really hard to write a rule that allowed those but banned the actual really harmful stuff.

But yeah, I feel like fake-claiming a guilty as town is on par with posting your scumteam as you replace out as scum.

I do think it's a pretty great reason to WotC/WotO someone out of a game.

[Jake The Wolfie]

But yeah, I feel like fake-claiming a guilty as town is on par with posting your scumteam as you replace out as scum.

Even if your fake guilty results in a scum getting axed?