Death Curse

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

He understood the plan was always Fidget -> Pooky/MC or MC/Pooky.

For him to say "We lost" as a response to you taking the scroll means he knows I am green when he couldn't have known at that point in time.

[Bell]

Murdercat's earlyposts are very unfortunate for town him.
His lack of effort early game bit him in the ass and I'm not sure how to weigh his absences against him in a manner that fits with reality one way over another.
I'll probably get a better handle on him as I push through to his more active midgame play.

it's entirely possible that Shelly's interactions with him and Noraa could both be scum I can't decide which possibility is more likely yet. Or not with comfort.
There's a lot of set up for a bus on Shelly.
But Murder's interactions with Shelly are somewhat innocuous and difficult to interpret. They look like weak sauce svs interactions.
She could have town read him to get him to leave her alone. Or she could have just found an excuse to town read him like she did earlier with Zdenek.

Yeah, I know, clock's ticking.

[Fidget]

It's TMI because he knows I'm town

Yeah that doesn't really do it for me I guess. Town!Murder's chances of winning the game dropped to 1/3 after I flipped green, so I would be feeling pretty defeated.

Perhaps town!Murder feels more confident you are scum, I suppose? But if he isn't then the game is more likely lost than won.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Fidget, he's trying to AtE me and scare me out of scrolling him.

That's why he says "We lost"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

read the conversation between me and murdercat.

you got scrolled first today because he knew I would scroll him as soon as I got the scroll if I got it in first position.

[Bell]

It's hard to truly interpret when someone knows you're town or not.

I spent like hours trying to figure out how Shelly Knew I was town in my other game and how it related to this one.

It's a discrepancy but I think everybody in this game has probably said something that could be interpreted as a scum slip or TMI.

For example, Shelly said she'd never played with me as town and I joke voted her because it implied she was scum in this game. But in a game a long ass time ago she lied in a similar way so I ended up weighing it heavily when she ended up flipping town in my other game because she had lied and had in fact play with me as town, I don't know why she lies about that stuff, but she dies. It's a weird tick.

[Fidget]

I am ok with any order FWIW. I agree the game is about to end, which is why I'm half pushing you to just end it :)

He thought it was UNOwen.. then he was sure it's me.. then it came down to whether Pooky is scum or not.

Also, to be fair, town!Murder

did

lose the game after I flipped green.

But sure I'm probably just reading this terribly.

It is true that Murder doesn't have a ton going for him early-mid game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

when I read scum associatives, I always pick the weakest scum player to read because weak players are easier to figure out and they dont understand how to manage associatives. Shelly/Titus/DGB are all experienced enough to manage their associatives and lay down wifom with their partner. Fred is not - unless you think Fred is actually some deepthought scumlord who decided to purposefully lay down 0 associatives with MC in order to give his scumbuddy something to frame MC with at Lylo?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Also, to be fair, town!Murder did lose the game after I flipped green.

?

how? when you got the scroll, from TownMurder's POV he only loses if I also flip green.

[Fidget]

If he felt there was a sizable chance Bell was scum at that point, then yeah, he probably did lose and knew it. Scum TMI maybe. Maybe I just don't believe in that stuff so I'm overlooking it.

Maybe it's not worth the risk shooting Noraa.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

he pulled foward his reaction from me getting scrolled and holding the scroll into you holding the scroll. it's a time-slip.

[Fidget]

when I read scum associatives, I always pick the weakest scum player to read because weak players are easier to figure out and they dont understand how to manage associatives. Shelly/Titus/DGB are all experienced enough to manage their associatives and lay down wifom with their partner. Fred is not - unless you think Fred is actually some deepthought scumlord who decided to purposefully lay down 0 associatives with MC in order to give his scumbuddy something to frame MC with at Lylo?

I don't really think Fred not interacting with Murder is very special, he interacted with hardly anyone.

His interactions with Noraa though are surprising, for sure though. His tunnel on her was kind of ridiculous.

And it is noteworthy that not just Fred ignored Murder, but pretty much the whole team did.

he pulled foward his reaction from me getting scrolled and holding the scroll into you holding the scroll. it's a time-slip.

I guess even if Murder is scum I don't really believe in that stuff. That's the kind of thing I could see myself saying all the time. People accuse me of scumslips all the time, though.

[Bell]

I think it's more that there are more explanations.
A simple one is that he simply didn't have time to expand out to murder.
Even as town it takes awhile for me to interact with some players.

I also thought and *frankly still kind of think* that how Fred voted Noraa was very close to how I would vote her as scum on town. Which was part of my reason for clearing her.
I'm not sure if that was a moment of cleverness from scum Fred or not though.

[Fidget]

I also thought and *frankly still kind of think* that how Fred voted Noraa was very close to how I would vote her as scum on town. Which was part of my reason for clearing her.
I'm not sure if that was a moment of cleverness from scum Fred or not though.

Yes, I think Fred's push on Noraa is surprising if they're SvS.

Is there a reason the entire scumteam decides to tunnel Noraa..? Shelly confscums her as she's about to die -> it fails -> entire rest of scumteam now has her as strongest scumread from that point on. Why??

[Bell]

ShellyC is the only scum that didn't really ignore Murder from my reread so far.
All of their interactions can be read as comfortable indolent Murder just being aware of Shelly and telling her what he thinks as blunt talk town.
But it also fits neatly into the scum Murder narrative of controlled interactions with a scum partner with some distancing intermingled.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't really think Fred not interacting with Murder is very special, he interacted with hardly anyone.

um that's not true.

he interacted a lot with Noraa Fidget and Bell.

See my excel below:

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

4906 as far as I can tell is the only post he ever addresses MC - it's also a strange post because he claims he moves MC from town-read to null-read when he's holding the scroll already - when he never expressed a TR of MC to begin with as far as I can tell previously.

[Bell]

I won't lie though Pooky, you're correct that the level of Shelly's scum play was leagues better than the rest of the initial (and fred's) scum game.

You can see it in how she preps all this bus stuff and then goes off and drops that wifom bomb on Hopkirk that double breaks my brain.

[Bell]

Sorry the rest of the flipped scum obviously not including Murder/Noraa one of whom is very good scum.
But more likely I am just very bad as town.

[Fidget]

He also interacted with shelly a fuckton. I think you're saying inexperienced scum!Fred sucks at interacting with partners, which is probably true given the shelly interaction although I blamed shelly more for that.

4096 is a confusing post indeed.

[Bell]

My problem with this is that it's just not uncommon for scum to ignore one town or another.
I can't interpret it with confidence is what I really mean.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

shelly didnt exactly give fred a choice

she is very in his face

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if you read fred's iso, do you really think his posts to Noraa are scum theater?

[MURDERCAT]

It's TMI because he knows I'm town

A bold claim

[Fidget]

My problem with this is that it's just not uncommon for scum to ignore one town or another.
I can't interpret it with confidence is what I really mean.

I guess that's more of what I meant, a lack of interacting with someone isn't much to go off of.

Although if you compare it to how he interacted with Noraa, then you're getting somewhere, I guess. It is weird that he would opt to just push her upon starting out.