Death Curse

[Fidget]

Pooky - I want to clarify I don't expect you to listen to me beyond maybe as a small, irritating voice that occasionally gives advice.

I'm not still trying because I think my opinion is particularly important, I hope it doesn't come off like that. But I do think it's important I at least have an answer for what I would do.

[MURDERCAT]

we might break 400

whats the longest game on site anyway?

I saw one that was over 500

Though if there was a way to get there if was having me you and Noraa at the end

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky - I want to clarify I don't expect you to listen to me beyond maybe as a small, irritating voice that occasionally gives advice.

I'm not still trying because I think my opinion is particularly important, I hope it doesn't come off like that. But I do think it's important I at least have an answer for what I would do.

I'm leaning towards scrolling MC but if you or Bell come up with an amazing reason that is conclusive I will change my mind. We are all in this together.

Well maybe not Bell but I know I can trust you <3

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat what do you think my favorite french love song is?

Justin bieber is french canadian right? So baby?

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky you know it's not me because bell isn't dead

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but noraa would've day-vigged bell to frame you

so maybe it's Bell?

[Bell]

and currently i want to vote adorable the scroll

do you think noraa was bussing adorable, if you SR noraa?

More bus info.

I got eliminated in three of my games this week so I'll have a lot more time to dedicate to this game. An hour ago I started ISOing and currently I have a read on everyone ... until I got lazy at the end but I might finish it up tomorrow. Have an unfinished reads list. I efforted these quite a bit so please set some time aside to read it. I am finally not overgamed(I had 9 games going on but 1 ended and I just got eliminated in 3 others recently so I finally have a clearer view on everything)

Reads incoming in a few minutes.

A read for everyone here(I did it by ISO as to make my job much easier otherwise I would've gotten a headache reading the whole entire thread). No one gets excluded

Adorable

Spoiler:

post 244 is this slots opening post and to be absolutely and brutally honest, I still do not like it. Generally, when I see a post sussing me while I'm under a lot pressure, I will never like it but I have taken a hot break and I still don't like it. This means that it's no longer a "I was being emotional" type of thing but rather a much more fair and solid read. "Not understanding why I am being defensive" is a really interesting thing to say here. The reason is that 1)newbies are always defensive. Regardless of my wins/losses, I am a newbie with a little over 2 months of time on ms and that is a fact no one can question. 2)rather than asking why I am being defensive which many people have already pointed out, just state whether its town indicative or scum indicative from your pov. That all aside, I think I am not that convinced this slot is scum anymore. Every single post from this user oozes newbtells. There are 0 independent arguments and every argument is some sort of OMGUS(ie SR on Uno and SR on me). I relate to this on a spiritual level. No matter how many people are sussing me(pressure doesn't matter, any amount will suffice), I will legit just OMGUS the fuck out of them. I always try to justify it otherwise but really ... let's talk facts. Im a noob. I hate pressure. I OMGUS. This is my form of self protection and tho it looks stupid/scummy, it is what it is for now. I hope for that to change as well since it really doesn't help with scum hunting but I can't really do anything about it rn cuz I haven't progressed past the point where I stop caring about pressure and just do my own thing. My reads are still heavily influenced by pressure. This is proven in all of my town games (if anyone wants straight up evidence, I can provide it) This slot oozes newb and reminds me a lot of myself except less active(a lot less active actually). Throwing away all of my SRs on this slot for now. Hot take this slot is just

newbtown

.

Bell

Spoiler:

first glance over and this slot has a lot of LAMISTing(ie posts 125, 139, 520, etc). I think that's slightly scum indicative bc, I generally don't say a lot of that type of stuff as town but I think it could just be play style and im too lazy to meta dive you. I really liked your defense of me at the beginning tho. It was very reasonable and I believe that if I was seeing a newbie slot get tunneled like this, I would also reply like that. I really like the courage there bc I do believe that getting involved in things like this and disagreeing with people taking up town leader positions can often result in you getting thrown straight under the bus. Generally, when I am NOT the person getting tunneled, I have zero fear as town so I think zero fear is town indicative. Indecisiveness(imo) is also for the most part, town indicative. You had a lot of hmm is Noraa scum? Nah maybe they are town. Or maybe they are scum. Etc, etc. This reminds me of my pms with mods when I am a pr. It literally looks like this:

Noraa shoots blah

. Wait wait no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait actually no

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Wait no no no

Noraa shoots other blah

. Wait wait wait wait wait

Noraa shoots other other blah

. Argh sorry mod

Noraa shoots other blah

. final decision

Noraa shoots blah

(that was the first decision ) Indecisiveness, though it is slightly a personality trait for me, is generally town indicative. I find myself so much more certain and less flip floppy when scum yet I have so many doubts and lots of paranoia as town. Also one post that asked if I normally post reads lists early in the game was really good cuz thats like investigating in on some meta and stuff. Your a bit fencesitty about your SRs(I can provide examples if asked) but thats generally how I am as well. I've been trying to actually just stick to one read lately but that ends up biting me in the ass a lot of the times too so idk. still trying to find a balance. You remind me a lot of myself sometimes as well. I want to say this slot is likely

town

for now.

Fidget

Spoiler:

Post 36 and 290 scare me. Unlike Bell whose whole play here has been LAMIST-y, your's doesn't stay LAMIST. only the entrance is lamist and that is really scary. I always think first impressions are the most important(ironic cuz I blew mine but nonetheless, I do think this) One of my pretty close online friends once told me that no matter what, everyone will always remember the first impression you left on them. Whether or only subconsciously or like it was just yesterday depends on the person. When you come in with that super LAMIST entrance but then drop it immediately, I get really worried you are just faking a really town look first and dropping it and relaxing once you realize the pressure all got sucked away into a Noraa vortex of doom. You really only talk about me. Every post somehow relates to me. Your reads on everyone have something to do with me. Meaning you are doing 100% preflip analysis and every single read is only true if I flip red. I 100% see that as a hohoho guys I have reads that are all based on Noraa flipping red. And AHA when she flips green, I can just be like ana oop turns out preflip analysis aint that hot eh. Excuse me for not having reads now cuz horrible Noraa lead me astray with her terrible awful playstyle. Most of your posts are 100% sheeping/buddying(ie posts 296(buddying LLD), all the isis buddying, 1265(buddying mush)) or 100% preflip analysis. No posts directly scream preflip analysis but its very clear that she is basically everything off of a red Noraa flip and when that doesn't happen, nothing she says she can't take back. I think this slot is

scum

aorn.

Flea

Spoiler:

I don't have much to say here but I think overall, I agree with literally almost every single post from this user. Well, I ... conditionally agree. Meaning if I was a townie watching myself get tunneled in the current situation, I would have basically the exact same thoughts as Flea as town but VERY different thoughts as scum. As scum, I would just push myself and pocket LLD. This means win/win for scum cuz they aren't even gonna get any SRs for jumping on cuz I was legitimately just playing scummy as fuck, being defensive as fuck, and just failing so badly at obvtowning. Plus pocketing LLD = a big shield that is right in front of you at all times cuz a bigger presence is much more noticeable and will get blamed more likely regardless of alignment. By far the most similar person to me.

TR

.

Gloria

Spoiler:

zero content. absolute lurker. two posts. I hate policy lims but if we are doing one, this is the slot to do it on. that may sound mean but I highly doubt we will get anything out of this slot if they continue with whatever they are doing and im always really paranoid that lurkers are scums cuz if they don't talk, ya can't sort. And if they be scum, ya still can't sort :/ This slot is a big question mark and a

null

.

Hopkirk

Spoiler:

I got lazy. Interpreting what all the verse meant got tiring after a literal 2 posts. I'm going to throw you in the

null

for now. I'll sort you as the day goes on.

LLD

Spoiler:

I can't sort this slot fairly because I literally want this slot to be scum so much that I don't even know what my read is anymore.

Lapsa

Spoiler:

I cannot follow anything of your progressions. I see zero progression in fact. But I feel like I'm obligated to give you a null cuz I gave Gloria a null and there's not a huge difference. Yeah, you 100% seem more opportunistic but I mean its unfair cuz Gloria hasn't said anything about the game and thats worse imo.

Null but scum lean

. None of your votes are justified and you don't engage anyone.

Murder

Spoiler:

Pretty annoyed at this slot atm. I hate that someone that has legit played a whole game with town!me and knows that im a big baby when it comes to not being stubborn, won't hear me out. He claims he engages me and shit but every time it reads to me like "Just fucking accept you are dead bitch. Now calm your ass and solve the whole game for me if you are town. If you don't, then ur scum" I feel forced to give reads but then you just come around and are like "oop well it doesn't matter cuz ur dead meat anyways" When Mush says it, it's different. You know why? Because mush understands that I fucked up but is unwilling to save me. You, on the other hand are basically pressuring me to give reads, pressuring me to not be antitown when I am mad, and constantly just being like "stop being mad noraa. ur dying anyways" That logic doesn't click with me and constantly just repeating the same damn thing to me isn't gonna get you whatever tf it is that you want from me. All you are gonna do is make me MAD. I'm throwing you in my SRs because I believe that town!you would see the town in me considering I am the exact same stubborn and stupid that I was in Roses. You aren't not seeing it. You know it is true but you know I am an easy lim as scum so you are pushing me hard. Thats the best I can interpret your play this game. I think you are

scum

.

Mush

Spoiler:

town

asf. there is no question. your play is 1000000% the same as the last game I was in with you where you were town and I was scum. It's a shame the one game I get to be the same alignment, I fucked myself over.

Pooky

Spoiler:

I don't know. I have trouble reading slots with this playstyle. Jokes can only go so far before they start looking like absolute trolling. I sincerely do not know and have flip flopped multiple times on you. I think I will throw you in the

null

.

Shelly

Spoiler:

ok I struggle with reading shelly and get really paranoid bc she has fooled me all the way before. In roses, I was hard tunneling her slot but she replaced in and I got really paranoid but then was like hmmm these reactions are townie. I ended up dropping the SR and untunneled. She coasted a tiny bit and threw me all the way off. I ended up tunneling elsewhere and almost drove a mislim when she was the last scum. This game, I've gotten quite some scum vibes. The problem is that based on my knowledge from playing with her, when she seems town, she is scum. When she seems scum, she is town. But in the Roses mafia pt, she said that she knew a lot of the players and was going to not play her normal scum game and now im extremely paranoid. I think you are scummy bc of all the buddying up to LLD, all the weird interaction with Bell(if that interaction was SvT, I think you are the scum), also bc of some really weak reasoning(ie post 68) I am absolutely paranoid and I currently still somewhat believe my read is correct so this is a

SR

Taylor

Spoiler:

town

asf. exact reasons as mush. anyone SRing, should meta dive. It's clear she is town. no question at all. I've learned to trust you, Taylor. The reason is that .... you don't really lie to be absolutely honest. I can explain this once its legal otherwise it breaches ongoing game rules so currently I cannot yet.

Theta

Spoiler:

Agreed with Isis on a TR here but flipped a few times and now this slot's

null

. Also im getting tired so the rest of the explanations r gonna be shorter. Edit: they basically dne

Titus/VaultDweller

Spoiler:

VaultDweller I had a scum lean/scumread on. Titus ... eh. Seems to be efforting more than normal. I have trouble reading replacements right away ... they throw me off. I'd like to re-sort this slot later so I'll lower the SR to a

null

for the time being

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Uno

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Vaxkiller/Isis

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

Zdenek

Spoiler:

idk

null

for now

I might go in and finish up the last few ISOs tomorrow but rn im tired. Im going to bed and they r gonna stay null for now.

This reads feel so generic though. Or like a lot of text but significantly less pay off.

noraa wim so high

Truth.

I agree with Fidget that Noraa has played more like scum than murder has in elo. From my POV. She's a lot more awkward.

[Fidget]

I feel out of place. I think I stole Gloria's seat at the final table, to be honest. Weird recurring theme of stealing things this game.

I'm leaning towards scrolling MC but if you or Bell come up with an amazing reason that is conclusive I will change my mind. We are all in this together.

Well maybe not Bell but I know I can trust you <3

I sound like an idiot in that post. I think that's probably your best course of action, yeah.

[MURDERCAT]

but noraa would've day-vigged bell to frame you

so maybe it's Bell?

She is still thinking about if she has to do it.
But I know you know I would, right?

[Bell]

There are all these scum tone shifts around Noraa.

Titus used a poker face when she voted Noraa, like she didn't want to give anything away.

When I asked ShellyC why she was trying to derail the noraa wagon, her tone changed. As well.

How zdenek refused to vote Noraa initially but jumped on somebody else for backing off because they must've been scum buddies while in general Zdenek seemed to what to seem like he knew what he was doing makes me think that Zdenek's attitude points toward scum Noraa.

[MURDERCAT]

It's actually not clear to me why I am being scum read. Was it Fred? Because Noraa looks bad there too and on all the other wagons

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's actually not clear to me why I am being scum read. Was it Fred? Because Noraa looks bad there too and on all the other wagons

there are some posts that noraa made that I don't think she can make as scum.

[Noraa]

If it helps pooky, I tend to look p scummy in lylo

It was actually really hard going with my gut and sticking to my guns when Noraa and Echo were going at it and neither preferring the Shelly kick.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

*Constantly refreshes*
my heart is beating so fast rn. awaiting this post is nervewrecking

like this post

[Fidget]

Shelly interacted with Noraa like Noraa was scum.
I totally forgot Zdenek maintained that Noraa was scum after unvoting, you raise a good point there. He set up UNOwen as being with Noraa.
Titus just went with consensus both times, called for Noraa's head when we did, but didn't when we stopped.
Lapsa voted Noraa when the wagon was forming, but did not include her in his top 5 at the end of the day (the top 5 that had 3 scum in it! shelly/Titus/Zdenek/shellyc/UNOwen).
DGB hard tunneled Noraa and if Noraa is scum, that means DGB's top 3 scum were all 3 scum (shelly/Titus/Noraa).
Frederick hard tunneled Noraa as virtually his only push besides the one on Adorable.

I think shelly, Lapsa, and Zdenek acted as if they are teamed with Noraa.
Titus and DGB, could go either way.
Fred is the best example of someone who didn't seem like he was teamed with Noraa.

[MURDERCAT]

It's actually not clear to me why I am being scum read. Was it Fred? Because Noraa looks bad there too and on all the other wagons

there are some posts that noraa made that I don't think she can make as scum.

I think you will be surprised by Noraa's ability to fake emotional tells after this game

[Bell]

Who is Titus?

I went and found the post. It took me legit like three hours bc I didnt ISO ... I just read the entire dang thread

Spoiler:

This post was written Friday night. I didn't check the thread until after shelly was hammered and didn't read up until my full reread on the game that night.

Rereading the entire thread here are my thoughts:

Datisi putting pressure on me over me saying he needed to justify his vote if it wasn't a rvs vote is strange. It's very strange bc in general votes need to be justified and putting pressure on a newb and making them feel like they weren't supposed to ask is just not rubbing the right way. Questioning my use of the terms antitown and scummy was definitely strange as well. Datisi's whole "let Bm look like the one tunneling while adding some pressure on Noraa "was a really really strange approach that doesn't strike me as towny ngl.


Bm being condescending and provocative doesn't seem to be AI. I meta dived or technically I literally read like the tiniest bit of his first game on site back in 2007 and people called him condescending and provocative. I think this may just be personality/playstyle so as much as I'm still a bit salty, I will try to be open minded about this when rereading.

Bob came in and joined in putting pressure on me. So alright I admit after the first few days of day one, I in a way, kinda stopped trying. I felt greatly discouraged and honestly just wanted to replace out. However rereading I personally do not think I was being antitown or scummy at the time as I had not given up on the game that early. So anyone that joined in putting pressure on me is definitely in my slight scum lean list.

Bm's whole thing about not liking to lie and not caring about anyone's opinion except his own is a strange post to make day 1. It's just very .... strange and I dont understand why scum or town would say something like this tbh.

So Bob continues to be active but not inputting much useful info. It seems he is siding with bm in the bmvnoraa thing but is mostly dealing in fluff anyways. he is not trying to get too involved and is trying to extend rvs in a way.

Mena popping in and saying BmvNoraa, something that happened in the first 5 pages, is TvS is VERY scummy. I absolutely hate that. It almost feels like scum TMIing and trying to set up two mislims bc they know both bm and I are town. If bm is Mena's scum partner, he wouldn't say that. this is why Mena and BM aren't scum together imo. Mena's flipflopping between me and bm is concerning as well.

Post #166 was when I started giving up. Everything before post 166 was when I believe I was giving this game my normal which is a ton a ton of attention and thought. After this I was considering just lurking or replacing out because I was pretty upset about how things were playing out and felt low-key bullied over nothing cuz as I said, I gave it my normal and the responses I got weren't nice especially from bm. Btw dont tell me wanting to lurk or replace out is scummy bc I seriously was upset about it. I have zero games, finished or ongoing where I actively lurk. My post counts are generally the highest and I'm spammy as hell normally. This game truly upset me and there's nothing more to that.

Taylor comes in and immediately takes my side which I can definitely see as trying to pocket. Taylor has been in games with me and I think anyone thats been in a game with me before can 100% tell that I was actually quite upset. And since I'm a pretty emotionally driven person, when I'm upset is the perfect time for scum to come pocket.

Back to Mena. Mena's Fos on BM just looks OMGUSy to me. The change to me isn't well justified either. I think the flip floppiness is actually a town tell as the entire thing was quite confusing if I do say so myself. towns reaction should be confusion imo. I was in it myself so I got a different view on things but I think a normal townies reaction should be to be confused. Mena is in my town book for townie confusion.

Post 199 feels town. Taylor was JKer in one of the games I finished with her. I'm getting the same vibes from there here so Taylor is in my early town book as well for meta reasons. Another thing is that Taylor seems quite a bit emotionally driven this game and that is 100% a town tell for her.

Piis entrance strikes me as town here. The post covers a little bit of everything, had some good reasons, didn't tunnel or focus on anything specifically yet, and had a nice summary. Pii in my early town book as well for this very towny sounding first post.

TGP's entrance is a terrible look. It reeks of scumminess. TGP thinks tunneling is scummy whereas I actually am fairly certain that tunneling is actually something town unintentionally does. TGP also calls me confident when all of my reads are very uncertain and very not confident. I feel like this is scum just twisting everything up to make some scumtells out of nothing.

Shelly I honestly felt was pretty scummy this round but I will not state anything on her since we already got a flip and she was town.

Alonzo is one of the people that caught my attention even in my ~salty~ phase and still is in my town book. The reasoning is that most his perspectives I think are much more likely to come from town than scum. The mena SR coming in wasn't scummy bc scums easiest thing to do is choose one out of {Bm, Noraa} and yeet them to hell. Alonzo's unvote soon after makes me really like thinking of that slot as town bc I also started off SRing mena but then TRing.

Teacher's entrance is a load of fluff which is an interesting take considering we moved out of rvs pretty fast and he was a bit late entering. The more you see of teacher, the more towny he seems. He moves into good questions really fast and almost all of his questions prompt or try to prompt good discussion that move the game forward. Town book. Strong TR.

Ico's entrance was ... interesting and gave me a null read on them but then their switch from mena to me and then off of me was very scummy. I felt like Ico came in and tried to pocket me(defends me all over the place despite saying they didn't want to take a defensive stance on me) but then realized I was great limbait and decided to start setting me up to be the day 1 lim. Ico pushes that NoraavBM is TvT but then flips and calls me scum. Idk I dont like the flip flopping.

Datisi focuses on me too much. His ISO reflects it and I find it scummy. It looks like very low-key tunneling that hidden really well.

iamausername is a null read. Idk not much to say there. Their reads r interesting takes and I generally agree with them but I'm not feeling immense towniness here so I think they belong in null.

Bob lurks a lil. cherry picks interesting things to reply to.

Datisi tunnels quite a bit imo. I think he'll go to my town lean for that.

TGP's switch from Noraa to BM is terrible. I hatehatehatehate. Switch to shelly over one post is scummy as well. Sheeps some newbtown reads on me. Strong SR now. Backtracks and says the TR on me is weak and I basically shouldn't question it otherwise it'll disappear. The post was a bit of a "threat" TGP is also very fence sitty as shown in post 650.

Bob clings to BMvNoraa. Reasserts my slight scum lean. He never tries to solve anything else.

see posts like 630 are why I dislike BM.

I admit I got a bit tired rereading so I ended up skimming a lot of the in between pages. 84 pages is a lot and it took me ~3 hours to read it all even when more than half was skimmed.

Scum:

Ico, Bob, Datisi, BM, TGP (in no particular order)

Null:

Iamausername

Town:
Mena, Taylor, Pii/Bunno, Alonzo, Teacher (in no particular order)


Most scum: TGP(even tho their posts got better later)

Most town: Alonzo/Teacher

Added on Sunday:
Holy fuck that flash wagon on Taylor... y'all literally hammered before I took one look at the thread. I logged onto ms and saw mod's pm that day 2 had started, checked the thread and it was locked. I thought mod hadn't opened thread yet until I saw the thread was night phase and Taylor was limmed in a literal 3 pages or something. Bm is confscum so that's our lim today but even tho its decided, we have to talk things thru bc we already mislimmed twice and wasted away day 2's time. We can't let scum!BM self hammer and waste our discussion time.

This link weirds me out because that wall is so much more nuanced and engaged then the one she wrote in this game. I don't understand why scum her would look a non-flattering comparison though.
I did not read this when she originally posted this. rip.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok show me the best emotional tell noraa faked in a scum game then

[Fidget]

*Constantly refreshes*
my heart is beating so fast rn. awaiting this post is nervewrecking

like this post

Is Noraa good enough at scum to fake that post? Maybe you're right, and she couldn't have came up with that. Sigh. I don't know.

[MURDERCAT]

ok show me the best emotional tell noraa faked in a scum game then

I showed you some posts, you didn't play with me

[Noraa]

I think you will be surprised by Noraa's ability to fake emotional tells after this game

nuh uh. the emotions were real as hell. that anger at LLD was real all the way down to my soul. that happiness at being IC was a small plant that sprouted from within my heart. those emotions were realer than anything.

[MURDERCAT]

*Constantly refreshes*
my heart is beating so fast rn. awaiting this post is nervewrecking

like this post

Is Noraa good enough at scum to fake that post? Maybe you're right, and she couldn't have came up with that. Sigh. I don't know.

Really? I am anxious about the outcome of a flip isnt that hard to fake. Noraa has good fake posts but I don't think this is one of them

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I showed you some posts, you didn't play with me

i read all of the posts you gave me. none of them are as good as what I linked

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Really? I am anxious about the outcome of a flip isnt that hard to fake. Noraa has good fake posts but I don't think this is one of them

saying I am anxious about a flip is not hard to fake.

her saying her heart is literally beating super super fast - that's not something she can fake.

[Fidget]

*Constantly refreshes*
my heart is beating so fast rn. awaiting this post is nervewrecking

like this post

Is Noraa good enough at scum to fake that post? Maybe you're right, and she couldn't have came up with that. Sigh. I don't know.

Really? I am anxious about the outcome of a flip isnt that hard to fake. Noraa has good fake posts but I don't think this is one of them

Maybe. I am a big sucker for emotion as I've established.