Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[Ythan]

Seems like a slightly more fun vanilla townie and yes I'd say it's normal.

[Gamma Emerald]

Except it changes how you investigate to cops temporarily. Firstly, that doesn’t seem useful ever, and secondly, it kinda bends the role changing rules.

[Ythan]

That seems like a problem with activated.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t have a problem with either modifier/role on their own, but the combination is concerning

[Ythan]

I guess I don't see it because it seems like such a harmless joke ability.

[Gamma Emerald]

But it’s not really harmless imo

[Ythan]

You can optionally appear as scum to investigations. So you forget you ever had a power and play as a named vanilla townie. Unless I'm missing something.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why make the role then

[Ythan]

Seems like a slightly more fun vanilla townie

[Ircher]

Except it changes how you investigate to cops temporarily. Firstly, that doesn’t seem useful ever, and secondly, it kinda bends the role changing rules.

I don't think the investigation changing aspect of it is an issue; there are setups where maybe being a miller on certain nights could be potentially useful. That said, I agree that it does not seem very useful, and that's the greater issue with the role. People have made it clear in the past that roles that simply exist for the sake of existing are not really liked, and this kinda falls under that.

That seems like a problem with activated.

I don't think it is reasonable or feasible to spell out every single combination of roles and modifiers that are "normal" and that are "not normal". There are just too many such combinations, and it is not worth the trouble.

[Gypyx]

I agree that activated miller is kind of a bad role, i just used it as an example to a way to use the combined modifier on self-targeting roles

[Gypyx]

hey so, i've been about normal roles recently, especially finder, (don't know what it is? yeah don't worry, no one used it in a setup yet, basically you're an investigative who only gets a positive if the player you visit is a specific role)

the problem with it imo, is that it generally has low appeal because

- peoples already know what they're finding, so if they find a town role, that's a pretty good confirm imo, and if they find a scum role, a investigation working on a single person kinda sucks

- the role peoples find only exist for one person most of the time, if the guy who has this role dies, congrats you're a VT

so how about this : a

Universal Finder

, which would be derivated from that like we have a Universal backup derived from Backup

this role may target a player while naming a role, if the targeted player is said role, the universal finder gets a positive result

it could be used to confirm claims as town, or as a weak PR hunting tool for scum (which would need some support, like a mafia informed of setup and a universal finder would be quite fun imo)

Or is it just a bad idea?

[Something_Smart]

I like that. Seems more useful design-wise than specific finder.

[Ythan]

An anything finder, without multitasking.

[Ythan]

Cop-finder/doctor-finder/roleblocker-finder/...

[Gypyx]

Yeah basically

[Gypyx]

Just like UB is a Backup cop / Backup doctor / Backup Roleblocker

[TemporalLich]

shouldn't that just be called a Role Guesser, as you try to guess the person's role and get a result telling you if you're correct or not?

I mean it could also be used as a Vanilla Cop if you're allowed to guess Vanilla.

[Ythan]

Can't vanilla cop find vanillas of any alignment? How does finder work wrt vanilla townie/goon/vanilla serial killer?

[TemporalLich]

I'm pretty sure a Vanilla-Finder is a Vanilla Cop by another name

[Gypyx]

Good question about finding vanilla, i guess it could be up to discussion

And idk, Role Guesser sounds more themey to me if you see what I mean

[Jake The Wolfie]

Question:

Would forcing a player to take an action (via a power role capable of doing so) when they otherwise wouldn't take an action be a normal role?

[Alisae]

Finder targets player declares vanilla town or mafia goon

[Alisae]

sounds like a better vanilla cop to me cuz you have to name a role and for you to get a positive result, it would have to be that specific role.

[Ythan]

I'm going to throw my hat in with this role sounds cool.