Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[Alisae]

I honestly don't really get what it adds to the queue personally.

[Alisae]

though on second thought, i have a pretty funny setup in mind that I could use with this said "universal finder"

[Alisae]

Actually so the above setup I'm just going to post here, because quite frankly, I don't think its fun enough to warrant being ran.

But the way I came up with using this role is to troll whoever gets it.
Because of how the role works, I feel like the player would most likely want to guess Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon

But what if there was only 1 vanilla townie and 0 mafia goons? Then suddenly you get to watch something thats really funny.

Here are some things you can do with this. I feel like if you are doing any of these things, you're making the game for your entertainment rather then it being an actual like good or fun game, which is why I'm posting these ideas here, but
You can
- throw in a bunch of neighbors. Make them aligned with each other or not, up2u.
- throw in multiple universal finders because the player will likely think that they're unique and not guess their own role.
- add in roles that aren't vanilla townie or mafia goon but also don't add any real power to the game. There are plenty of them.

[Alchemist21]

Question:

Would forcing a player to take an action (via a power role capable of doing so) when they otherwise wouldn't take an action be a normal role?

That’s basically what Captain does, unless you’re talking about a role that could even make VT’s do something.

They’re not Normal and it’s probably best to keep it that way so people can be in control of their own actions. Theme games could make them work in a fun way though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Question:

Would forcing a player to take an action (via a power role capable of doing so) when they otherwise wouldn't take an action be a normal role?

Only problem imo is the fact if the target doesn’t submit an action it gets randomized

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I think finder wouldn’t differentiate between VT and goon, like Rolecop does

[Alisae]

Also I think finder wouldn’t differentiate between VT and goon, like Rolecop does

then what's the point.
At that point you're just playing a more unfun rolecop

[Ythan]

The point is that the finder as it exists is even more unfun.

[Alisae]

Do you think the role in its current state has a reason to exist within the normal queue or is it just bloat?

[Ythan]

I don't think the purpose of the whitelist is good roles but rather known roles that conform to the normalcy guidelines. So yes I guess.

[Akarin]

I can imagine plenty of good uses for Finder as it currently exists.

[Alisae]

Akarin what niche do you feel like the role fills?

[Akarin]

A couple possibilities:

It can be a weaker... Neapolitan-ish thing if you have something that's obviously going to be a town role, or will be after some of the setup is revealed. Doesn't confirm all the VTs, just one PR (maybe something you have a few of)

It can function like a Scum Rolecop/Neap/Vanilla Cop/whatever where you want to give scum the ability to target a particular part of the town. Like Scum PT Cop hunting Masons, but for other things. Those roles have some use when you want to give scum just a some specific counterplay. e.g. Doctor-Finder

Finally, it can be used as a way to hint about the nature of the setup without giving an Informed role.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Question:

Would forcing a player to take an action (via a power role capable of doing so) when they otherwise wouldn't take an action be a normal role?

That’s basically what Captain does, unless you’re talking about a role that could even make VT’s do something.

They’re not Normal and it’s probably best to keep it that way so people can be in control of their own actions. Theme games could make them work in a fun way though.

I mean, are redirectors normal?
Are roleblockers/jailkeepers normal?

Also, I was thinking that the role could force a player to take an action if they did no action, and could choose the target since there would be no target. (Any role which has no night action would become a 1-shot visitor for that night.)

[Alchemist21]

Question:

Would forcing a player to take an action (via a power role capable of doing so) when they otherwise wouldn't take an action be a normal role?

That’s basically what Captain does, unless you’re talking about a role that could even make VT’s do something.

They’re not Normal and it’s probably best to keep it that way so people can be in control of their own actions. Theme games could make them work in a fun way though.

I mean, are redirectors normal?
Are roleblockers/jailkeepers normal?

Also, I was thinking that the role could force a player to take an action if they did no action, and could choose the target since there would be no target. (Any role which has no night action would become a 1-shot visitor for that night.)

Redirectors are explicitly non-Normal.

Roleblocker and Jailkeeper are normal but they don’t take away your ability to actually choose your target, they just affect whether your actions get through.

Also, I was thinking that the role could force a player to take an action if they did no action, and could choose the target since there would be no target. (Any role which has no night action would become a 1-shot visitor for that night.)

So let’s say there’s an Even-Night Tracker. Would this new role be able to make them Track someone on Odd Nights? What if the other role is x-shot and has no more shots?

Would there be any practical use for that interaction with the VTs?

[Jake The Wolfie]

So let’s say there’s an Even-Night Tracker. Would this new role be able to make them Track someone on Odd Nights? What if the other role is x-shot and has no more shots?

Then they would have no night action, and would be a visitor.

Would there be any practical use for that interaction with the VTs?

Maybe, maybe not.

[Ythan]

What about targets with multiple abilities if you already covered this tldr.

[Jake The Wolfie]

What about targets with multiple abilities if you already covered this tldr.

That should be up to better designers than me.

[Gamma Emerald]

A couple possibilities:

It can be a weaker... Neapolitan-ish thing if you have something that's obviously going to be a town role, or will be after some of the setup is revealed. Doesn't confirm all the VTs, just one PR (maybe something you have a few of)

It can function like a Scum Rolecop/Neap/Vanilla Cop/whatever where you want to give scum the ability to target a particular part of the town. Like Scum PT Cop hunting Masons, but for other things. Those roles have some use when you want to give scum just a some specific counterplay. e.g. Doctor-Finder

Finally, it can be used as a way to hint about the nature of the setup without giving an Informed role.

maybe give scum a doctor finder in a setup with a doc+cop combo
it's provides a counter to follow the cop without being a full rolecop

[Jake The Wolfie]

Would it be possible to make the persoanl modifier only apply to certain factions?

[callforjudgement]

Town don't have factional abilities, so that would only make any sense in multiball.

[Gypyx]

Or an sk

But no it isn't normal

[Gypyx]

Just realized that PT cop doesn't show as having a gun to gunsmith

That's kinda lol tbh

[mastina]

Just realized that PT cop doesn't show as having a gun to gunsmith
That's kinda lol tbh

It should???
A PT Cop is in the same family of investigative role as all the roles Gunsmith gets a guilty on and even has 'cop' in its title, so...it should have a gun?

[TemporalLich]

A PT Cop is a minor variation on a Traffic Analyst - both are binary investigatives that concern private communication (PT Cop gets In a PT/Not in a PT, Traffic Analyst gets Can Communicate Privately/Can't Communicate Privately)

Logically speaking if Gunsmiths get positive results on PT Cops mechanics-wise they should get positive results on Traffic Analysts as well.