Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[Menalque]

Peta, do you have a solve to propose without me in it?

[Menalque]

And it’s not just a thing of “might be gambiting” — it’s a thing of “would this gambit be game winning here?” and the answer to me seems to be plausibly yes.

Like, fmpov (honestly I think something is fucked and one of the assumptions we’re making is wrong but I cannot work out what it is at this point) scum has to be in (you, Dave, S_S, infinity). You have tied yourself to Dave by vouching for him and saying he can’t be the scum here. That means it must be S_S or infinity, but both have done townie things. I mean, I don’t really think S_S has, but i think infinity has (although obligatory paranoia etc etc). And while S_S hasn’t, a better player than me thought he was town quite confidently which makes me reluctant to flip him.

You really can’t see why you gambiting looks plausible fmpov?

[Menalque]

because i don't fucking townread them lmfao

Yeah, again, why? What is not towny about me other than there being a soft guilty? Who has done more to try and move this game along, to engage people, and to solve than me?

tryharding doesn't make you town and the fact that we're in the situation we're in would make sense if the dominant voice in the room was scum

No, but the way I’m tryharding does. Also, purely the level of effort I’ve put in is, at a raw level, town indicative for me. I’m not gonna day clearing, because I’ve made lots of posts as scum before, but I don’t think I’m this driving as scum or this active, and it’s not so easy for me to do over and over again like I have whenever I’ve been under suspicion and have needed to explain why I’m not scum.

[Menalque]

Now, if S_S is scum, who is he scum with?

[Menalque]

Big problem is I can’t come up with a team that makes sense with my current reads unless scum is doing something really, really weird

[petapan]

You have tied yourself to Dave by vouching for him and saying he can’t be the scum here.

for the hundredth time -

i am not townclearing him, i am just saying he took the role he says he took

[Menalque]

I know you’re not, but that inherently means the scum /must/ be in (S_S, infinity) if true

[Menalque]

Like, you are still tying yourself to him even if you’re not saying he’s towncleared

[Menalque]

Peta if Dave is scum do you think it townclears me y/n and why

[Menalque]

I know you’re not, but that inherently means the scum /must/ be in (S_S, infinity) if true

(S_S, infinity, me) for anyone who doesn’t have access to my role PM

[Hoopla]

i feel like menalque's play is starting to fray at the seams - or at least, it's looking like his scattergun stream-of-conscious style of posting is veering into deliberate obfuscation. he's continually focusing on low% possibilities, like trying keep open the possibility of N_M being the redirector and not a neighbouriser (as if N_M is ever capable of faking what is essentially a confirmable role).

he's also trying to keep lilith suspicion open despite calling her locktown earlier in the game. how he came to that conclusion earlier in the game, but now can't keep it going looks to me like he needs this angle open now when the walls of PoE are closing in. it's in scum's interest to have as much of a spread of suspicion as possible when we're nearing endgame.

when you couple that with his recent absurd "meta" attacks on peta, and then rescinding a cop gambit once it was revealed he could be CC'ed, it just seems like too many things adding up. and that's not even factoring in the possibility of a guilty on him. he could have been the NK N1, but a significant chunk of the time he's the killer too.

you've put up a good show, mena. but i think all the evidence is starting to eclipse your early game townposting.

VOTE: menalque

E-1

[Hoopla]

on another note, i'm annoyed peta/dave won't entertain me conversationally about a more indepth solve, but i guess we just need a scumflip to get motivation going again.

[Hoopla]

@hoopla Do you think scum playing ~weirdly~ makes s_s more likely to be scum (coming up with the weird plays) or town (since that's one more mechanical player to trick by doing unexpected mechanical plays).

i'd say the former is more likely, but it's still a lot of guesswork to pinpoint scum's exact motivations when there are so many moving parts to this setup.

[petapan]

on another note, i'm annoyed peta/dave won't entertain me conversationally about a more indepth solve, but i guess we just need a scumflip to get motivation going again.

i'm really at the limits of how much i can think about here, i don't have the confidence to try to call a team

[Menalque]

he's also trying to keep lilith suspicion open despite calling her locktown earlier in the game. how he came to that conclusion earlier in the game, but now can't keep it going looks to me like he needs this angle open now when the walls of PoE are closing in. it's in scum's interest to have as much of a spread of suspicion as possible when we're nearing endgame.

This is not accurate at all? I’d revised my opinion of lilith before today started and before I was under suspicion at all?

[petapan]

Peta if Dave is scum do you think it townclears me y/n and why

i hate ruling things out that easy but, i would guess he probably wouldn't bus here. but, and this is only really definitely true from my pov, i have to question why he takes 1s watcher with the 4th pick as scum. i also don't think his posts are as bad as you're saying

[Hoopla]

another bonus with executing mena!scum today is we gain more info about the redirector puzzle, ie; if mena flips mafia cop/redirector, it means the bracket of SS/infinity/peta don't have to have scum. if mena flips goon, it guarantees scum in SS/infinity/peta.

it would also all but confirm lilith as town, but she'd surely be the NK on N4, as JK results will get too powerful as the scumteam's numbers dwindle.

[Menalque]

when you couple that with his recent absurd "meta" attacks on peta, and then rescinding a cop gambit once it was revealed he could be CC'ed, it just seems like too many things adding up.

What was absurd about my pointing at that peta seemed more actively solvey in a spectator thread that I was reading for a game that is quite likely to be game of the year, and then using that to help read him here?

Why is my rescinding if the cop gambit bad? Am I not better off 1v1ing in that scenario if I’m scum and the letting my partners bus me tomorrow?

And besides this, you haven’t actually explained yet why I make sense with S_S or Best Bird. Which is kind of important, because if I have no one who I can be partners with, how can I be scum?

[Menalque]

Is it like hoopla, S_S, lilith?

[Menalque]

This is an insanely wolfy and opportunistic hop on, hoopla, and it’s exactly like what you did on D2

[Hoopla]

i'm really at the limits of how much i can think about here, i don't have the confidence to try to call a team

i'm starting to suspect BB is the top buddy for a scum!mena world (especially if mena flips cop/redirector). BB has been mysteriously absent from most of menalque's solve attempts, and i don't know why that would be, really. that slot has been pretty under the radar all game and could easily fit into a number of scumteam combos, in my opinion.

[Menalque]

i feel like menalque's play is starting to fray at the seams - or at least, it's looking like his scattergun stream-of-conscious style of posting is veering into deliberate obfuscation. he's continually focusing on low% possibilities, like trying keep open the possibility of N_M being the redirector and not a neighbouriser (as if N_M is ever capable of faking what is essentially a confirmable role).

he's also trying to keep lilith suspicion open despite calling her locktown earlier in the game. how he came to that conclusion earlier in the game, but now can't keep it going looks to me like he needs this angle open now when the walls of PoE are closing in. it's in scum's interest to have as much of a spread of suspicion as possible when we're nearing endgame.

when you couple that with his recent absurd "meta" attacks on peta, and then rescinding a cop gambit once it was revealed he could be CC'ed, it just seems like too many things adding up. and that's not even factoring in the possibility of a guilty on him. he could have been the NK N1, but a significant chunk of the time he's the killer too.

you've put up a good show, mena. but i think all the evidence is starting to eclipse your early game townposting.

VOTE: menalque

E-1

Like, none of this really feels like you think I’m scum?

But it feels like you felt that you needed to *realllly* justify your vote on me

[Menalque]

BB has been mysteriously absent from most of menalque's solve attempts

This is a lie

[Menalque]

Why are you lying hoopla?

[petapan]

yeah that makes me nervous