Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[Something_Smart]

One vote this entire game s_s.

Must be hard to actually do something.

It's not that, it's just that my threshold for "it's time to do something" is much higher than everyone else's.

[Menalque]

on net i'm still concerned with menalque because i felt like some of his posts were just blatantly manipulative

Why is this scum indicative for me? And what distinction are you drawing between “manipulation” and “persuasion”? Like I have reads and opinions on what we should be doing, of course I’m going to try to get people on board with those things, why is that scummy to you?

[Menalque]

i have a sinking feeling we're just going to settle for mena today.

Yes, probably, although again, not actually super keen on peta because I wouldn’t say he’s the best odds of being scum here

[Infinity 324]

What’s your gun-to-head solve?

[Menalque]

i'm burrowing through menalque's meta right now. i'm trying to find instances of him leaning on the reads of the dead to the extent he's attempted to this game, including eliminated players.

this is from mini normal 2163:

veng

well unless i think if town they will make a stupid veng kill. yds . The fact he claims to scum read yds means his reads are awful if he inst scum. Like a vig who kills town 3 times in row. You dont want to give them any chance to kill more town

the poe should only be osuka, dmath, bob , plus.

Any risk to that then, yes i will be against killing a claimed veng. Kill him last even if he is scum

And if my poe is wrong. Then im as wrong as anyone this game.

As the wagon gamestate just doesnt make sense unless there is 2 scum in dmath, osuka, plus

I don’t think bob retracts from this and now that he’s conftown I’m inclined to listen to this

Honestly if bob could just present as town he’d be a really strong player, I think his hunting is >average but he continuously fails to communicate well and comes across super scummy because of it

mena was scum, bob's reads were wrong, he'd voted to eliminate him the prior day. 1 granted, this is the only instance i can find of him doing something like this but the extent to which he's leaned into reads of the dead this game feels manipulative. i certainly can't find him leaning that hard on dead player reads as town. it especially bothers me because, obviously, skitter was wrong on at least 1 of her townreads and yet he's been trying to use her reads like a sword. 2 can't get over the push on lilith's slot today either even after it was confirmed there was no doc. or the way he dragged me back onto dunnstral 3 when dunn's logic had been similar to his own. 4 he gives me the feeling more than the other two that he's get people to do his bidding to move them, hustle them. 5 i want to stand by mmy feelings here regardless of how much emotional appeals he puts out.

i realize there's a certain irony in citicizing his sheeping the dead play when i'm telling people to sheep me if i'm eliminated but whatever

(1) I’m pretty sure I can find an example of me leaning on dead townreads pretty easily even if I eventually swing off it, I do it as scum BECAUSE I do it as town

(2) why? In my eyes that increases the odds of lili!scum because it goes from a maybe there was a town doc block on N1 to “no it literally has to be that she blocked a kill on me or is scum”. I’ve already pointed out the other factors (imo weird NA choices, poor content and a lack of solving, skitter’s reads) that lead me to going the scum side of the 2 options

(3) when?

(4) again, why is this scummy. Ofc I’m trying to get people to do what I want, that’s not the question, the question is what ends I’m trying to get them to do what I want /for/

(5) I mean I’m not really asking to be townread for my emotional reactions, I’m asking to be townread because my being scum requires me to have done things I wouldn’t do (like kill skitter the day after she stated TRing me or to try this hard to fight the day instead of getting my team to bus — unless your explanation is that apart from you my entire team is bussing but I’m so persuasive I’ve managed to get all the town players to either be on the fence or voting with me)

[Menalque]

What’s your gun-to-head solve?

Ehh

I don’t have just one?

If peta scum then probably (peta, Dave, BB/NM/S&M)

If peta not scum and I’ve been pocketed (you, hoopla, BB/NM)

If peta not scum and I haven’t been pocketed (Dave, S_S, BB/NM/S&M)

[Menalque]

Sorting through Best Bird, N_M, and S&M is going to be literally disgusting so at least I’ll be dead before then either way

[Menalque]

Best Bird has done things that make me think he’s scum and that he isn’t. Last time I called him scum in a game together, he completely flew off the handle at me, accused me of reading him in bad faith and started yelling about how I had to be scum, which he hasn’t done this time. Otoh, he’s low enough down on the priority of people town want to kill that he could... quite easily support my death right here and not be too suspicious for it tomorrow. So I guess actually, if peta!scum prob it’s NM or S&M for the final slot

[Menalque]

also menalque just keeps pointing at dave and going "dave post bad" but the thing is from what i can tell - dave is super placid as scum, him getting pissy only seems to happen in town games when people don't follow his idea of optimal mechanical play. this seems to happen fairly often. but, you know, if someone's posting

unusually

, point at it, yell, and call it scummy, that's how it goes. but it doesn't look like scum rage here

I mean

Have you seen his posts today tho? Or for most of the game? The guy has no interest in solving and is literally just tunnelling me. Which isn’t lockscum necessarily, god knows I’ve been in tunnels, but the complete lack of a desire to engage is why he’s scum — scum are worried that if they engage with someone who looks very town in those interactions (at least post flip) it will drag them down. So it’s easier to just repeat the same talking point over and over, and gives him the added benefit of not having to come up with excuses for why he’s both (1) not looking for any other scum and (2) not interested in explaining how I can be scum with anyone else — which is a point that still isn’t adequately explained from anyone voting me. If I’m scum, who are my partners?

[Menalque]

VOTE: Menalque
copy / paste plz

I doubt I even need to say what my preferred order is.
I view this as a 99% vs a 33% and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where the best odds are.

what do you think about my logic in 3665?

I quite literally don't care about it.
Talking ourselves out of a guilty is the fast track to losing.
I'm absolutely not voting anyone else.

Like c’mon this is not a town tunnel suicidally focused on getting me killed bc I’m lockscum (oh, also, Dave is claiming to be a mechanical player and voting me off a weak mechanical reason) this is a scum tunnel looking to make excuses for not doing jackshit. The fact he keeps harping on the same point (because it’s the only thing he can use to justify his vote) is why he’s scum

[Infinity 324]

Dunn did the same thing though?

[Menalque]

I do think Dave is better than peta mañana for what it’s worth, but if Dave does flip scum then turbowagon peta in 5

[Menalque]

I mean dunn did fuck all and deserved to die, partly for his lazy ass tunnelling, but he did do some slight other things

[Menalque]

Okay, let me rephrase: Dave is either scum or incredibly lazy and incompetent town, but if he is scum he doesn’t deserve a win for playing like this whereas if he’s town he entirely deserves to lose

As he has decent equity here as scum (remember, once I flip town the redirector pool is down to 3 and two of those people are incredibly likely to share an alignment) I think it’s better to kill him

[Infinity 324]

I just think it’s better to flip peta first since dave is unlikely to be scum unless peta is

[Menalque]

I have absolutely no regrets about killing DGB and Dunn even if we lose

In fact, I think towns losing is actively good when there are multiple players who are half assing the game, and it puts pressure on those left to get better. You either need everyone to actually play as opposed to like, a bit over half the PL (what happened here), or you need to have town who are really really good (better than me by a lot) who are able to sort the lurksack do-nothing-all-game townslots accurately

[Menalque]

I just think it’s better to flip peta first since dave is unlikely to be scum unless peta is

Well, the way things are going it’ll be your decision to make lmao

[Menalque]

To think, after all this, even if town then does go on to hit twice in 2 days after today, it’s all going to come down to whether to PL NM in 3p

[Menalque]

(The answer is almost always yes)

[Menalque]

s_s/bird/lilith I guess

you really think there's any realistic possibility of a mafia nokill on night 1? i realize it's not impossible, but i think it takes a certain type of player to attempt such a play. i think that, if that team of players wanted to get rid of menalque, they'd simply kill him, rather than try to elaborately frame him

This game has proved frustrating due to the number of low-content/no-effort slots but to everyone who has actually been actively playing, I’ve enjoyed playing with you all, town and scum alike. I definitely hope the scumteam has a concentration of players in the high effort slots, if not then it’s disappointing that we couldn’t find each other as town and just elim all the non-players

[Menalque]

For those who haven’t played: I still like you, but it’s been very frustrating and irritating to put this much effort in just to watch you... not really try to solve at all, and thereby make yourselves really hard to read, at least for me

[Menalque]

I think I would request that town not eliminate outside of (Dave, peta) tomorrow, because I think even if S_S is scum the game is prob lost in that scenario as there are too many possible partners

Whereas if it is Dave/peta then you get 2 and the townies have a 25% chance of winning in 3p

[Menalque]

Maybe even 50% if there are NA shenanigans that lock 2 people into a 1v1

[davesaz]

Dave is either scum or incredibly lazy and incompetent town

At the moment I'm the only competent one here.
You eliminate the guilty.
Always.
WTF is wrong with people?

[Menalque]

They know it’s not a real guilty/the guilty isn’t clear enough to rule out me being town or disregarding the guilty in view of my play?

Like sure, if I were claiming miller on D3 after a hard cop guilty, that would be different, probably is always right to lim me. But you realise that you’re probably losing the game for town right now if you’re wrong about me and I’m wrong about you?