Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[Not_Mafia]

Dave is either scum or incredibly lazy and incompetent town

At the moment I'm the only competent one here.
You eliminate the guilty.
Always.
WTF is wrong with people?

Okay boomer

[Menalque]

You know Not_Mafia, it would probably be the trolliest thing possible in the game rn if you switched your vote to peta and forced a tie...

[Menalque]

Or think about this— if you unvote, Best Bird voted with us against peta first, you’d hold the hammer over literally everyone

[Menalque]

Two juicy available hammers, just hanging there for the taking

[Smoke and Mirrors]

vote count 4.15

Menalque (3):

Not_Mafia, davesaz, petapan

petapan (3):

Infinity 324, Menalque, Hoopla

Not voting

: Something_Smart, Best Bird, Smoke and Mirrors

Deadline: (expired on 2020-11-26 17:00:00)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

mod notes

:
- quack

Just 13 hours left, God. @Davez, @Infinity can you please give me both of your respective cases on both Mena and Peta please? Thanks.

~Nancy

[davesaz]

Mena was blocked on a no-kill night 1.

[davesaz]

Like, I'll be unhappy and disappointed if I'm wrong, but you play the hand you're dealt.
When I play hold-em, I fold about 10 times as many hands as I all in.
This is an all in hand. I'd never fold it in a million years. Win or lose it's the only real play here.

[Menalque]

Mena was

blocked on

saved from a

no

-kill night 1.

Ftfy

[davesaz]

Maybe 20 times or more as many. I don't keep track.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mena was

blocked on

saved from a

no

-kill night 1.

Ftfy

What was Lillith’s read on you att? For strictly personal reasons, I’d much rather watch paint dry then slog through all that.

It probably doesn’t change anything though because unless there’s literally a hard guilty, I base my votes mainly on play.

~N

[Menalque]

Lilith thought I was scum, although I’m not totally sure how much that had to do with the cop gambit I was pulling last time she was in thread

And cool, does that mean you’re TRing me then?

[petapan]

I have absolutely no regrets about killing DGB and Dunn even if we lose

In fact, I think towns losing is actively good when there are multiple players who are half assing the game, and it puts pressure on those left to get better. You either need everyone to actually play as opposed to like, a bit over half the PL (what happened here), or you need to have town who are really really good (better than me by a lot) who are able to sort the lurksack do-nothing-all-game townslots accurately

i still feel like i screwed them and it's my fault, dunn was abit of a policy but dgb was because i can't read emotion for shit and get it wrong, first time i've ever seen the reaction of someone thinking they're hammered come from town and not just be scum faking it

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Lilith thought I was scum, although I’m not totally sure how much that had to do with the cop gambit I was pulling last time she was in thread

And cool, does that mean you’re TRing me then?

I’m saying that I want to see arguments based off of play and by itself Dave’s reason isn’t enough to decide my vote. I need to see arguments on Peta as well.

~N

[petapan]

i read the posts but don't really have it in my head to formulate a response right now

[petapan]

temped to suggest a last minute flashwagon even though i know it's 1. probably a bad idea 2. will make me look bad

[petapan]

Lilith thought I was scum, although I’m not totally sure how much that had to do with the cop gambit I was pulling last time she was in thread

And cool, does that mean you’re TRing me then?

I’m saying that I want to see arguments based off of play and by itself Dave’s reason isn’t enough to decide my vote. I need to see arguments on Peta as well.

~N

menalque came into today pushing to essentially quick-eliminate your slot without anyone claiming and it gave me the impression he was scum trying to hustle us especially given it was revealed there was no doctor so your role is the only explanation for the missing kill you can read starting from here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12334413

[petapan]

understand that your slot had been under heavy suspicion all game because lilith wasn't really active and was likely an easy elimination

[Menalque]

i'm burrowing through menalque's meta right now. i'm trying to find instances of him leaning on the reads of the dead to the extent he's attempted to this game, including eliminated players.

this is from mini normal 2163:

veng

well unless i think if town they will make a stupid veng kill. yds . The fact he claims to scum read yds means his reads are awful if he inst scum. Like a vig who kills town 3 times in row. You dont want to give them any chance to kill more town

the poe should only be osuka, dmath, bob , plus.

Any risk to that then, yes i will be against killing a claimed veng. Kill him last even if he is scum

And if my poe is wrong. Then im as wrong as anyone this game.

As the wagon gamestate just doesnt make sense unless there is 2 scum in dmath, osuka, plus

I don’t think bob retracts from this and now that he’s conftown I’m inclined to listen to this

Honestly if bob could just present as town he’d be a really strong player, I think his hunting is >average but he continuously fails to communicate well and comes across super scummy because of it

mena was scum, bob's reads were wrong, he'd voted to eliminate him the prior day. 1 granted, this is the only instance i can find of him doing something like this but the extent to which he's leaned into reads of the dead this game feels manipulative. i certainly can't find him leaning that hard on dead player reads as town. it especially bothers me because, obviously, skitter was wrong on at least 1 of her townreads and yet he's been trying to use her reads like a sword. 2 can't get over the push on lilith's slot today either even after it was confirmed there was no doc. or the way he dragged me back onto dunnstral 3 when dunn's logic had been similar to his own. 4 he gives me the feeling more than the other two that he's get people to do his bidding to move them, hustle them. 5 i want to stand by mmy feelings here regardless of how much emotional appeals he puts out.

i realize there's a certain irony in citicizing his sheeping the dead play when i'm telling people to sheep me if i'm eliminated but whatever

(1) I’m pretty sure I can find an example of me leaning on dead townreads pretty easily even if I eventually swing off it, I do it as scum BECAUSE I do it as town

(2) why? In my eyes that increases the odds of lili!scum because it goes from a maybe there was a town doc block on N1 to “no it literally has to be that she blocked a kill on me or is scum”. I’ve already pointed out the other factors (imo weird NA choices, poor content and a lack of solving, skitter’s reads) that lead me to going the scum side of the 2 options

(3) when?

(4) again, why is this scummy. Ofc I’m trying to get people to do what I want, that’s not the question, the question is what ends I’m trying to get them to do what I want /for/

(5) I mean I’m not really asking to be townread for my emotional reactions, I’m asking to be townread because my being scum requires me to have done things I wouldn’t do (like kill skitter the day after she stated TRing me or to try this hard to fight the day instead of getting my team to bus — unless your explanation is that apart from you my entire team is bussing but I’m so persuasive I’ve managed to get all the town players to either be on the fence or voting with me)

also menalque just keeps pointing at dave and going "dave post bad" but the thing is from what i can tell - dave is super placid as scum, him getting pissy only seems to happen in town games when people don't follow his idea of optimal mechanical play. this seems to happen fairly often. but, you know, if someone's posting

unusually

, point at it, yell, and call it scummy, that's how it goes. but it doesn't look like scum rage here

I mean

Have you seen his posts today tho? Or for most of the game? The guy has no interest in solving and is literally just tunnelling me. Which isn’t lockscum necessarily, god knows I’ve been in tunnels, but the complete lack of a desire to engage is why he’s scum — scum are worried that if they engage with someone who looks very town in those interactions (at least post flip) it will drag them down. So it’s easier to just repeat the same talking point over and over, and gives him the added benefit of not having to come up with excuses for why he’s both (1) not looking for any other scum and (2) not interested in explaining how I can be scum with anyone else — which is a point that still isn’t adequately explained from anyone voting me. If I’m scum, who are my partners?

VOTE: Menalque
copy / paste plz

I doubt I even need to say what my preferred order is.
I view this as a 99% vs a 33% and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where the best odds are.

what do you think about my logic in 3665?

I quite literally don't care about it.
Talking ourselves out of a guilty is the fast track to losing.
I'm absolutely not voting anyone else.

Like c’mon this is not a town tunnel suicidally focused on getting me killed bc I’m lockscum (oh, also, Dave is claiming to be a mechanical player and voting me off a weak mechanical reason) this is a scum tunnel looking to make excuses for not doing jackshit. The fact he keeps harping on the same point (because it’s the only thing he can use to justify his vote) is why he’s scum

Peta how would u feel about addressing some of these points

[Menalque]

understand that your slot had been under heavy suspicion all game because lilith wasn't really active and was likely an easy elimination

Some of this is true but the final bit is not — lili’s slot has been under moderate suspicion for most of the game — yes, that is heavily due to lili not doing much of anything, but how has lili ever been an easy elim? There is maybe a point to that slightly on D1 but since then she’s been pushed twice (or her slot, whatever) in two days consecutively by two people who are both able to strongly push a wagon. Neither skitter nor I ever really went 100% for it, but it’s notable how little traction the push ever got vs the amount of content lili produced — seems like the sort of thing scum would want to get on if it was being pushed by town, and that... hasn’t happened

[Menalque]

S&M has also now survived two nights in a row while being a claimed role, although granted uncrowned and skitt were much more consensus townreads

[Menalque]

so your role is the only explanation for the missing kill

*cough* no kill *cough*

[petapan]

dude that's fucking ridiculous

[Menalque]

Lilith thought I was scum, although I’m not totally sure how much that had to do with the cop gambit I was pulling last time she was in thread

And cool, does that mean you’re TRing me then?

I’m saying that I want to see arguments based off of play and by itself Dave’s reason isn’t enough to decide my vote. I need to see arguments on Peta as well.

~N

That’s harder because I’m not actually sure peta is scum lol. But we went through the places where people were willing to compromise (check the last few posts in hoopla’s iso and mine right after that) and the numbers are only there for peta or me

I know I’m town and I think I’ve demonstrated that pretty well, and for that reason if we have to go between the two of us I’d rather go for the person who in the worst case scenario has a 33% chance of flipping scum and who if they are scum gives us another one as a freebie

[Menalque]

dude that's fucking ridiculous

What is? I’ve made like 4 posts with a multitude of different points

[Infinity 324]

@infinity

can you run me through why peta makes the most sense to you?

Honestly there's not too much I can say except my heart isn't really anywhere else. I'd like to vote him or bird today. You convinced me for a second that s_s was likely to be scum, but I didn't feel it--specifically, I feel a real intention to uncover information with the questions he's been asking, even if he hasn't committed many stances yet. I also want to trust skitter's read on s_s, especially since it was her strongest townread and iirc they have history together. I have a feeling the last scum is lilith or maybe dave, but I just remembered something that s_s said a while ago which is that lilith can't NK and use her JK if scum, so that could potentially back her into a corner if we get both her scumbuddies. I also want to trust you in not limming her today, and maybe getting a scumflip or two would help to make more things clear around her slot. Flipping peta and night actions could help sort dave.

I have felt that peta is towny for a while, but I haven't liked the way he's played this day. He claims not to be very confident about the gamestate, but he pushes against me/mena/you so strongly, which doesn't seem to match up for me. I mentioned this earlier, but since scum only needs 2 mislims, they don't need to think bigger picture later on. Peta's play today has fit with a scum agenda since it seems to be looking at the next 1-2 elims instead of trying to solve the whole game. Also, in our interactions earlier, I thought there was a decent chance I would be able to appeal to town!him by drawing connections with things he was thinking earlier in the game. Specifically, I thought town!him would be likely to see the same thing that happened with dunn happening again now. But he didn't, so I thought that was relatively scum-indicative.

@Nancy I assume? Here are my thoughts on the game and reasons for voting peta. A lot of it is PoE. Lmk if you have questions, I’m traveling today but may be able to check in.