Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Trendall]

But that makes an equal difference to the chances of my being town and going for a clidd elimination, no?

[clidd]

Ben, just relax.

[clidd]

Scums are hiding and we'll find them.

[Chumbo]

So what I have noticed most in this game is that Ben talks a lot, but in a lot of what he says there doesn't seem to be much substance. There was a post where he explained why he doesn't like to do RVS because it takes energy, but that caused him to expend much more energy in an self-envoked explanation. Another thing I've noticed about him is that he likes to use the words townie and conservative. I also think that his asking for reads this early on is strange, when only 3 people have more than 3 posts, while not giving his own reads in the post. I also thought his pressure of clidd, on not immediately posting his meta and then harping about clidd's language he used was strange. I did not feel this way about clidd's use of words. I thought that, for the most part, that what he said about not immediately posting the meta was a joke.

That being said, I don't really like how clidd eventually caved under pressure about the meta. Nothing else he has said has really stood out though.

I'll comment on Trendall later, right now I need to get some sleep.

Everyone else hasn't posted very much, myself included.

If someone was one vote away from being lynched, and there were people who wanted to continue discussion but you were convinced they were scum, would you hammer them?

I wouldn't, especially if it was after day 1. There might be someone who has a good reason not to want the hammer to happen like maybe they know the person is not scum because they are a power role that has the result of proving it. I think discussion should have a decent chance before a quick hammer. I think this was a very good question to ask.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: ben dover123

[Trendall]

Oh god, I just realised, I thought ben dover123 was an SE for some reason. Apparently he's not. I'm going to have to bloody reread all of that now.

[Chumbo]

Oh god, I just realised, I thought ben dover123 was an SE for some reason. Apparently he's not. I'm going to have to bloody reread all of that now.

What about being an SE makes it different how you read them?

[Trendall]

In this case, ben dover123 was talking about everything to do with SEs as though he is an authority on them, so then if he's not an SE I can't work out where that comes from. But I just looked into this and apparently they have SEs on the other forum as well.

[clidd]

I don't suspect Ben at all, unless he's openwolfing and I'm confbias because he's new to the site, but I don't think so.

[clidd]

What's your take on afk slots, Chumbo ?

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

@above I was born in a world of Mafia where SE's are considered to teach newbies and be extremely competent.

How competent, exactly? Are there any further restrictions on becoming an SE? Are you an SE there too?

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

I seriously want to have a talk with you, but such a off-topic argument gets in the way quickly and before you know it we are deathtunneling each other.

I...what? Why can't we just let off-topic chats be off-topic chats?

[clidd]

To clarify the topic 'SE', idk about everyone, but I don't think SEs take games in the newbie queue very seriously here, in the sense that we are not going to play the best we can. We are often looking for a more chill game, trying to test new styles/approaches, or we are trying to adapt to the site after a long period away (my case).

Of course, if players have any questions about the game, setup or terms used, I believe that no SE will refuse to help, but keep in mind that each one needs to absorb things on their own and find the playstyle that works better for them.

[ben dover123]

@above I was born in a world of Mafia where SE's are considered to teach newbies and be extremely competent.

How competent, exactly? Are there any further restrictions on becoming an SE? Are you an SE there too?

No, not quite yet. In fact, from the outside SE's seem like a simple name tag because you only need to complete 3 games, but usually that is not the case. I can pull up the requirements here.

he player must have played 3 completed games (games in which that player played at least one full day with a somewhat significant number of posts and wasn't replaced).
2. The player must be active enough so that we don't have huge activity issues.
3. The player must demonstrate that they know how mafia works and are fluent in mafia terminology and conventions.
4. The player must prove that they know how to find scum and construct some sort of logic that points toward someone being scum.
5. The player doesn't have any other big issues (like a tendency to swear, or being modkilled in a game) that would prevent us from making him/her SE.

Sounds simple enough, right? Well, no. They raised SE standards so that you have to complete 3 "awesome" games, where you basically had the best games of your career. Some people take up to 10 completed games to get SE, and most of the SE's there are quite competent in my eyes.

I seriously want to have a talk with you, but such a off-topic argument gets in the way quickly and before you know it we are deathtunneling each other.

I...what? Why can't we just let off-topic chats be off-topic chats?

Because from just a little chatting, I can see that me and Trendall have completely opposite viewpoints for such an argument. Given your join date, I'd expect you to know what happens when two players get too involved in a off-topic argument. tl;dr It never turns out nicely. Usually the off-topic argument starts infiltrating their reads and the chaos that ensues goes straight to scum's advantage.

Hm. I like how Chumbo has set a stance on me, so let me explain some things.

1. Ah. You see, that is being proactive. I could show every card I own currently about everyone, but that makes it easier for scum to try and manipulate my reads (e.g. "pocketing") to get them on the right side. That's why I'm even keeping my soft townlean secret rn.

2. Just asking around is my attempt to see if anyone has bigger takes then me currently. I have my own reasons to keep my reads secret in this current gamestate, like in point 1, and honestly none of my reads are very good anyways.

3. Hm. The weird part of his post for me is 1. his "definition on meta and 2. his wording. I know he should be capable of being much more competent over writing, and I'd expect that he would know meta by now.

[clidd]

And like the name says, "newbie queue", is primarily for players who are joining the site and still in the process of learning the game.

SE players are just additions to clarify any doubts that may arise (and perhaps share some knowledge, but this varies from player to player).

There is also the case in which you have played a few matches and still do not feel comfortable playing in more competitive queues, in this case, the forum allows you to continue playing in the newbie queue with newbie players, but under the title of 'SE'.

[clidd]

That's all, I think.

[ben dover123]

Ben, just relax.

Guh. I'm getting too tense over this game. I think you are right, probably got to turn it down quite a bit.

Scums are hiding and we'll find them.

My take about the inactive slots is that there is 1 scum in all 4 of them. Scum probably like the current gamestate with so many inactive players, so following the inactive crowd would definitely go in their favor.

[clidd]

I agree with the assumption that there is 1 scum afk, but, perhaps, depending on how the game flows, it's possible that both scums are just the most apathetic slots in relation to activity.

[clidd]

I would say that a point of stagnation is that BM did not actually enter the game yet. If he's town, we'll have a really good PoE to work with (since Brendall and you are towny imo)

[ben dover123]

I would say that a point of stagnation is that BM did not actually enter the game yet. If he's town, we'll have a really good PoE to work with (since Brendall and you are towny imo)

Yeah. As much as I disagree with some of Trendall's points, his overall mood is something similar to 2035 imo.

Still dissatisfied about you but your proactiveness currently gives me some towny vibes, so I think I'll chill with this read for now.

Also, please teach me the arts of the PoE. I need to learn.

[clidd]

PoE is just an easier way to say "process of elimination".

Basically you take a look at who you think is town and drop that person off the list of possible scums, to the point where the remaining players must be scum.

I have an example below:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11552826

I gathered the information I had about the setup, shared my opinions about the players and at the end of the post I announced which solution would be the most likely. This 'solution' was the result of the elimination process. (This is not normal, but in that game, specifically, there were three scums, although it doesn't change the essence of what I'm trying to explain to you).

It is important that you work together with your TRs, in case you are not so sure about your other reads.

[ben dover123]

I know what PoE is, and how to use it, I just don't know how to use it correctly. If you are not sure about your SR's, then work with your fellow villagers. That is like the underlining idea I think.

Hm. I think it is time we start pressuring some inactive slots now.

VOTE: NotAJumbleofNumbers

Looking through his 4 posts, I see nothing that talks about the actual game and he is questioning me about off-topic things. I don't understand why he didn't comment on anything ingame, when there is plenty of new and fresh information we can go off of rn.

Also soft tr on Chumbo for setting his stance as a newbie. His reasoning is incorrect but it looks like a genuine thought process where he is piecing things together.

[Chumbo]

What's your take on afk slots, Chumbo ?

I think scum is likely to lurk, but there are so many afk slots right now that I don't have an opinion about any of them in particular. Hopefully people start posting more.

3. Hm. The weird part of his post for me is 1. his "definition on meta and 2. his wording. I know he should be capable of being much more competent over writing, and I'd expect that he would know meta by now.

My understanding is that meta refers to "the way someone plays mafia" and you can use meta by looking at other games to see how a person generally acts to see if they are acting differently. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.
The main reason I have this stance on you is that you are

trying

to look like town.

[clidd]

I'm still unsure about Chumbo. I don't think what he said is beyond scum reach, and the content is basically common sense for Scum!Chumbo and Town!Chumbo.

Pedit: Fair enough, I'm waiting for them too.

[ben dover123]

@above that is the correct usage of meta. How can you tell I am "trying" to look town? What is the difference between being town and "trying" to look town?

EBWOP: I'm pretty sure we are all waiting for them to post, but I have a gut feeling that there is at least 1 scum in there due to gamestate rn.

[Chumbo]

The way that you post gives me the feeling that you are trying to look town. The difference between being town and trying to look town, IMO, is that scum will try harder to look town. That is the main thing that makes me suspect you a little.