Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Trendall]

In terms of ben 'trying to look town' or whatever, I used to find on epicmafia that if a person ever starts to complains about things being off-topic, the chances of them being mafia are pretty high. Wouldn't know if the same applies on forum mafia though, I suspect it doesn't.

[Chumbo]

But, the energy part isn't nearly as important. Point 1 is why I do not want to participate in RVS voting and reaction fishing. For example, I know some people would argue that since I don't want to participate in RVS I want to prolong it and therefore I am scum, which is an argument, but it is moving the ball in the wrong direction, especially since the reasoning behind the argument is baseless. I believe natural reactions are the best ones to get the ball rolling in the right direction, especially tonereading early on is a way to create some good reads.

Anyways, being too proactive isn't good for anyone, especially me, because I start to lose focus on my reads and who I'm scumreading if I try and be extremely townie. That is the reason why I may look like I'm being conservative D1, and as Battle Mage said, I look a bit passive.

This is a decent example of what makes gives me scum vibes, explaining every action of what you're doing even though no one asked. Posting your meta for us to just accept "yep that's what he's doing must be town". This is what I was talking about when I said trying to look townie.

This is an awkward sentence. Scum has more motivation to not post their meta then town does. Additionally, you have got the idea of meta wrong, which is surprising noting the fact that you started playing almost a year ago.

Another thing I've realized by this post is you have not only accused me of not having the right idea of meta, but also clidd. You also never actually posted any of your own games.

I will say my reading on Ben is mostly gut-based on how he handled the early game. I haven't really seen much recently to make me think he's scum, other than posts seeming kind of fluffed. But with so many people being afk, I'm not really surprised.

[Battle Mage]

I'm VLA for weekend

[Chumbo]

I'm VLA for weekend

You have been afk long enough to get prodded (about 37 hours), and now you go VLA without offering anything? I don't like this at all.

[Chumbo]

Trendall: are you going to answer my question or do you have to be coached? You've played plenty of games here already.

[clidd]

@clidd: What exactly gives you a town read on Trendall? Most of the content he has posted is just arguing with Ben about "opinion vs turn of phrase" and SE elimination on Day 1. No reads, not many questions.
I see him as null right now.

It was more the way he approached our discussion.

I have noticed in most games that scums players, when pushed/treated as suspects, in some contexts, have a greater tendency to extend the duration of omgus on the player who is accusing them, rather than trying to reassess the accuser.

Example:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12046749

I started questioning a player (he was scum) and we gradually got into an argument that resulted in a TR of me on him, but at no time, during the entire game, did he reevaluate his SR on me. Later, in that same game, I took his behavior into account to revert my TR into an SR, given the lack of evolution of his read about me.

In other words, the fact that Trendal was flexible and reciprocal in relation to my TR on him demonstrates that he has the capacity for reassessment, a characteristic more associated with a town mentality than a scum one.

[clidd]

No saying that Trendal is lock-town, of course, but I'm leaning town on him today.

[clidd]

And as far as Ben is concerned, I don't think his decision making really has a malicious purpose.

By tone, we know that he is someone who likes to express himself a lot, especially when saying what he is thinking/what he is going to do, something that ends up sounding lamist (look at me im so town), but it is so explicit that it wouldn't make sense as a strategy seeing from a Scum!Ben's pov.

[clidd]

We also know that Ben played on a different forum, with different rules and probably an abstract meta, so it may be that this transition is causing a clash of concepts (and it created the bad impression we are feeling from Bren's posts).

[clidd]

So, I don't think I want to vote Ben/Trendall today.

[clidd]

With BM going vla this is where I'm going.

VOTE: NotAJumbleOfNumbers

[Trendall]

omg I just wrote out a post and now I've lost it somehow.

Essentially I think clidd's analysis of ben is really reasonable. Thinking along the same lines of me, in that there is some unusual behaviour there, but nothing particularly suspicious in alignment terms given that all of it can explained away by 'this is a type of person' and also the fact that they usually play on another forum.

Chumbo is most likely to be mafia here, as they're complaining about ben trying to 'look town' while at the same time complaining about 'this guy isn't posting enough!' and 'this guy hasn't answered my question!' (please nobody interpret this post as an answer to Chumbo's question). Classic mafia stuff - easy, obvious, and irrelevant things to pick up and complain about.

NotAJumbleOfNumbers if anything is the towniest player in the game so far, but it's all very marginal, like nothing's happened so far this game which is fine.

VOTE: Chumbo

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 1.2

[2] ben dover123 (Battle Mage, Chumbo)
[2] NotAJumbleOfNumbers (ben dover123, clidd)
[1] Chumbo (Trendall)

[4] Not Voting (LoneMarkhor, mars, NotAJumbleOfNumbers, Pragdoid)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to eliminate.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-12 08:30:00)

[borkjerfkin]

LoneMarkhor, Mars, Pragdoid were all prodded.

[ben dover123]

Comments in bold.

But, the energy part isn't nearly as important. Point 1 is why I do not want to participate in RVS voting and reaction fishing. For example, I know some people would argue that since I don't want to participate in RVS I want to prolong it and therefore I am scum, which is an argument, but it is moving the ball in the wrong direction, especially since the reasoning behind the argument is baseless. I believe natural reactions are the best ones to get the ball rolling in the right direction, especially tonereading early on is a way to create some good reads.

Anyways, being too proactive isn't good for anyone, especially me, because I start to lose focus on my reads and who I'm scumreading if I try and be extremely townie. That is the reason why I may look like I'm being conservative D1, and as Battle Mage said, I look a bit passive.

This is a decent example of what makes gives me scum vibes, explaining every action of what you're doing even though no one asked. Posting your meta for us to just accept "yep that's what he's doing must be town". This is what I was talking about when I said trying to look townie.

Wait, when did I post my meta? Also I'm kind of a stream-of-consciousness player, if that makes sense. I wanted everyone to know what was on my mind then and there, plus if I hadn't made an RVS vote but didn't explain why there would be a much bigger argument right now.

This is an awkward sentence. Scum has more motivation to not post their meta then town does. Additionally, you have got the idea of meta wrong, which is surprising noting the fact that you started playing almost a year ago.

Another thing I've realized by this post is you have not only accused me of not having the right idea of meta, but also clidd. You also never actually posted any of your own games.

:thonk: So out of context. This post was directed towards clidd, and clidd only. I never mentioned you anywhere. I only have 1 game on the other forum, and it is where I am scum, so it is basically useless since I completely changed my style from that game as well.

I will say my reading on Ben is mostly gut-based on how he handled the early game. I haven't really seen much recently to make me think he's scum, other than posts seeming kind of fluffed. But with so many people being afk, I'm not really surprised.

Not surprised of what? And what posts are fluff? I want all the details.

I don't find these reasons very secure in any way, and Chumbo added a couple of extra details that never happened, as if to increase the effect of his attack intentionally. This is Chumbo's first game after all, so it is
understandable if his attacks are weak, but adding fake details? Something is off here.

VOTE: Chumbo

I'll hold off on NotAJumbleofNumbers, I think this is slightly more scummy.

We also know that Ben played on a different forum, with different rules and probably an abstract meta, so it may be that this transition is causing a clash of concepts (and it created the bad impression we are feeling from Bren's posts).

Our meta is trash, we only have 200 games ish done on the forum. Also, daytime is much longer (14/2 cycles for newbie games) and there are quite a few different rules too. You can take a look for yourself.

@Post 161 How is NotAJumbleofNumbers the most towny player in the game? That does not make sense.

[Trendall]

Why declare that it doesn't make sense before you've found out what the answer is?

[ben dover123]

Why declare that it doesn't make sense before you've found out what the answer is?

NotAJumbleofNumbers has 4 posts, which is 1 post being the RQS, and the other 3 posts solely asking questions towards me and not talking about anything related to the gamestate or other people. I'm not sure how to comprehend this as I'd expect they would make at least a couple comments over everyone else too.

[ben dover123]

EBWOP: So I don't understand how NotAJumbleofNumbers is the most towny person in your eyes when they haven't posted anything that gives me town pings.

[Trendall]

not talking about anything related to the gamestate or other people. I'm not sure how to comprehend this as I'd expect they would make at least a couple comments over everyone else too.

People say this about me when I'm town all the time. Like 'oh I would have expected Trendall to be engaging with other players in the game, asking questions'. Why? What makes you think I would be the type of person who behaves that way?

NotAJumbleOfNumbers was fine with off-topic conversation, I don't see this from mafia-sided players too often.

[ben dover123]

not talking about anything related to the gamestate or other people. I'm not sure how to comprehend this as I'd expect they would make at least a couple comments over everyone else too.

People say this about me when I'm town all the time. Like 'oh I would have expected Trendall to be engaging with other players in the game, asking questions'. Why? What makes you think I would be the type of person who behaves that way?

NotAJumbleOfNumbers was fine with off-topic conversation, I don't see this from mafia-sided players too often.

Nothing says that you would be the type of person to behave this way, it is just common sense that townies want everyone to know they are town, and townies usually have townie behavior naturally. I just find that people who don't show townie traits or behavior naturally are harder to read. Maybe since you have a similar behavior NotAJumbleOfNumbers, you read him town just from chatting about off-topic stuff, but I believe talking about off-topic stuff is NAI.

[Chumbo]

I don't find these reasons very secure in any way, and Chumbo added a couple of extra details that never happened, as if to increase the effect of his attack intentionally. This is Chumbo's first game after all, so it is
understandable if his attacks are weak, but adding fake details? Something is off here.

I didn't add any fake details.
You have been posting your meta and you did call both clidd and I out for our understanding of meta.
Since meta means 1. how a person plays mafia and 2. using past games to look into a persons playstyle, I am using the first definition to say you've been telling us your meta (or how you like to play). Right there in the posts I quoted you said that you try to be extremely townie and may seem conservative.
As for the other "fake detail".

3. Hm. The weird part of his post for me is 1. his "definition on meta and 2. his wording. I know he should be capable of being much more competent over writing, and I'd expect that he would know meta by now.

That's where you called me out

This is an awkward sentence. Scum has more motivation to not post their meta then town does. Additionally, you have got the idea of meta wrong, which is surprising noting the fact that you started playing almost a

and here's clidd. You did call us both out.

[ben dover123]

I don't find these reasons very secure in any way, and Chumbo added a couple of extra details that never happened, as if to increase the effect of his attack intentionally. This is Chumbo's first game after all, so it is
understandable if his attacks are weak, but adding fake details? Something is off here.

I didn't add any fake details.
You have been posting your meta and you did call both clidd and I out for our understanding of meta.
Since meta means 1. how a person plays mafia and 2. using past games to look into a persons playstyle, I am using the first definition to say you've been telling us your meta (or how you like to play). Right there in the posts I quoted you said that you try to be extremely townie and may seem conservative.
As for the other "fake detail".

3. Hm. The weird part of his post for me is 1. his "definition on meta and 2. his wording. I know he should be capable of being much more competent over writing, and I'd expect that he would know meta by now.

That's where you called me out

This is an awkward sentence. Scum has more motivation to not post their meta then town does. Additionally, you have got the idea of meta wrong, which is surprising noting the fact that you started playing almost a

and here's clidd. You did call us both out.

1. Ok, that makes a bit of sense. Although I'm not posting my meta because I want you guys to accept it, I'm posting it because I am trying something completely different then what I am used to.

2. I only called clidd out, and where you think I called you out is when I was talking about your points. In post #112, "he" refers to clidd.

[ben dover123]

EBWOP: At the end of the day, I still think the attack was rushed and you forgot some scenarios that were likely, like I'm fairly certain that you could have inferred in Post #112 "he" refers to clidd and the one post where I talked about how I was going to play I explained why I was doing so and it can be seen that my previous playstyle was completely different and I wanted to try again with a fresh slate.

Plus, I'm also kind of uncomfortable with this jab at BM.

I'm VLA for weekend

You have been afk long enough to get prodded (about 37 hours), and now you go VLA without offering anything? I don't like this at all.

I don't think you have the right to attack BM for this, because you aren't that active as well and besides attacking me you haven't offered opinions for anything else. Yes, I acknowledge you have asked questions from everyone, but you haven't made any other takes then me "trying to look town".

UNVOTE: Chumbo

Chumbo's evidence is wrong but looks like a town attack that he tried to piece together but for the wrong reasons.
I think Chumbo does not understand what he is attacking, and his jabs at the afk slots are probably just newbie town motivated, and nothing more than that.

[Trendall]

It is Chumbo's first game, I forgot that. So yeah, could be.

[Battle Mage]

I'm VLA for weekend

You have been afk long enough to get prodded (about 37 hours), and now you go VLA without offering anything? I don't like this at all.

I don't think 37 hours is enough for a prod in a newbie game. I just accidentally ended up in too many games and real life got busy.

I'll be back in the mix well before deadline.