Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[clidd]

I am really confused by all these pages of arguments.I wasnt expecting so many pages in this short time.But clidds interaction with trendall slightly makes him look scum.Ben seems town based on his thoughtful reasonings.Trendall could be either.He doesnt read scum to me nor town.
Chumbo reads slightly town too.But I cant say anything about other players.I am surprised by the hardness of catching scum but I think that it will become easier after night 1(perhaps).If I had to vote now I would vote clidd but I am going to refrain from that as there are still many days to deadline.Sorry I cant provide anything new but I am still a newbie.

Which Ben post in particular do you think best illustrates the town feel you had of him?

By extension, you said that Ben is town due to thoughtful reasoning, but I also provided some in the posts where I explain my reads on Ben/Trendall. Shouldn't I be town in your view too?

[clidd]

I think I ll have to reread some pages so i can organize my thoughts in a better way.

Ok, you can answer the questions after doing that. No problem.

[clidd]

Quick update so I don't fall out of this game entirely: Ben is slightly leaning scum to me, Chumbo seems town, Clidd is basically null right now, Trendall also seems town, everyone else hasn't posted enough to really read on.

[ben dover123]

Yawn...wallpost coming soon with takes.

Eh? What's Post #193? Hmm...

[clidd]

Jumble, I can't quite understand where your head is. You should summarizes your reads and reasons, so I can have a take on what you're thinking.

[ben dover123]

People say when I'm town I usually obvtown, but this isn't a button that I can just turn on.

So idk if I'll eventually be obvtown to your perspective, although I already have the firm feeling that you are town.

? You can't be obvious town manually? I'm sure anyone can be obvious town if they just tried. I'm fairly certain this sentence is null, but I'm surprised to hear that you aren't able to turn on your obvious town switch whenever you like. I'm capable of becoming obvious town and this is just my second game on the forum.

Okay, now this is something I have an issue with. You can't just assert everyone can just look like they're a townie easily, without a problem. I'll use myself as an example here: I have trouble at times

just posting in the thread

, let alone looking "obvious town".

Also, I found a few questions for you that aren't really related to what I just said, but they seem fine to tack on:

In 15, you suddenly defend your choice of not voting in RVS unprompted. Why?

In 69, you said you were probably going to "recede your leadership and proactive role", but you're still posting as frequently as before. Why?

Well, clidd is a special case. I did some research and I found some interesting information about him, as well as his general behavior, tone, and frequency as either alignments. Stay tuned!

1. I have had problems with such before. People argued over why I made a certain RVS vote or why I didn't vote and then all of a sudden, it turns into a full blown argument. When I explained it beforehand, I wouldn't get accused of keeping RVS longer.

2. It's a ton harder than I thought. Being proactive is just me, and it turns out I didn't even change anything over the last 200 posts. I'm just as active as ever, and I'm helping town even more. I have to start capping the amount of posts I make per day, because at this rate I'll never recede the proactiveness.

That seems to be all the questions.

@above Yeah, those reads are basically the opposite of everyone else's currently.

[ben dover123]

Hey everyone, I'm sorry but I have requested to be replaced. I thought I'd have more time but I don't, so I'd rather let someone who can do the game justice take my place. Sorry everyone.

Oh, no worries, forum Mafia can be very quick and hard to keep up with. I hope we play together in another game sometime soon!

Also, borkjerfkin, you have a prod on mars right? It's been 2 days since she last posted, smh.

[borkjerfkin]

Replacing Pragdoid by request and mars due to inactivity.

[Trendall]

This 'my case is coming soon! i'm building a case. i have some information! all will be revealed in due course!' is sketchy af.

It reminds me of when Michael Avenatti was in the news all the time with like, 'I've got hard evidence! it's coming! any day now!'. He had nothing. Do you know where is now? Under house arrest after coming out of prison for tax evasion, extortion, fraud and embezzlement. Sketchy behaviour.

[ben dover123]

This 'my case is coming soon! i'm building a case. i have some information! all will be revealed in due course!' is sketchy af.

It reminds me of when Michael Avenatti was in the news all the time with like, 'I've got hard evidence! it's coming! any day now!'. He had nothing. Do you know where is now? Under house arrest after coming out of prison for tax evasion, extortion, fraud and embezzlement. Sketchy behaviour.

No, it's almost complete. I have my case done for clidd and I'm just typing out your case. I guarantee it will be out today, give me about an hour.

[ben dover123]

Alright, I think I will show my takes on clidd and Trendall. I'm just organizing the evidence, will be done in about 5 minutes.

[ben dover123]

Warning: Long wallpost. Will provide tl;dr upon request.

Spoiler: Reads

ben dover123

Pragdoid

Chumbo

Trendall

Battle Mage

LoneMarkhor

mars

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

clidd

Spoiler: clidd meta research

clidd towngames:

Newbie 2018(Town Win)
Notes: 228 posts out of 1156 total posts, survived for town win.
Newbie 2020 (Town Win)
Notes: 282 posts out of 1758 total posts, replaced in D1 and survived for town win.
Open 791 (Town Win)
Notes: 110 posts out of 3215 total posts, replaced out D1. Heavily fatigued from last few games, was not going to do wallposts and be obvious town.

Town clidd behaviour:

Overall behaviour: Really proactive, likes wallposting when not fatigued, makes himself obvious town, very detailed analysis over all of his takes.

Tone: Likes to ask for opinions and questions, very proactive and helpful with many different takes on his reads.

Frequency: Quite active. Almost never reaches low activity.

Miscellaneous: In Open 791, clidd is noticeably fatigued from his last 2 games, so he does not make himself obvious town and starts acting slightly like his scum meta. He talks a bit about his meta, and I am currently analyzing this game to see what he has to say about his scum meta. However, clidd should not be able to use the fatigued argument here since he has literally come back from a couple month's break, no way in hell is clidd fatigued here and not actively trying to be town.
Also, he notes that he will not be doing very detailed analysis and wallposts, meaning he actually is able to control his switch from being obvious town to neutral/scummy. Interesting...

clidd scumgames

Micro 927 (Scum win)
Notes: 149 posts out of 489 total posts, survived for scum win. Partner: dsjstr
Mafia PT
Mafia Neighboorhood
Micro 939 (Scum win)
Notes: 88 posts out of 1285 total posts, replaced in D1 and replaced out D2. Partner: Flavor Leaf.
Mafia PT
Newbie 2006 (Scum win)
Notes: 37 posts out of 1468 total posts, replaced in D2.
Mafia PT intentionally private.

Scum clidd notes:

Overall behavior: Locks onto one person as his main scumread, intentionally changes his scumread only when there is a flip and interactions are used. Doesn't put nearly as much effort into his posts, and in all of these games he usually does fluffing with one liners or something similar.

Tone: Light, not too involved with solving the whole game and coordinating with his tr's. Doesn't contribute directly.

Frequency: High activity, rarely any low points.

Spoiler: clidd ISO

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

Possible contradiction alert! Possible contradiction alert!
If you believe that there isn't a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is mafia, then why vote for Trendall in the first place? I am confusion.

Slightly scummy

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

Now that I have examined Trendall's meta, this is a really bad reason. Trendall starts basically all of his games with "Hello" or "Hello everyone" as town, I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this vote/what your goals were.

Hum, I feel like my sentences are not so fluent. I need to readjust to the language.

I'll take a break, waiting for others (trendal mainly) to post.

Ok. Well, I think I can understand most of your reasons, however I'm not ready to retract my vote and my suspicious yet.

I still think you're towny in your posts.

Btw, I like your style, Ben.

You fit the leader type.

Actually no, I'm open to talk.

Ah, I'll take a break.

Scums are hiding and we'll find them.

That's all, I think.

He... He-llo..

Pl.. Players.. Afk..

Repl.. Replace..

Ben... Tren... Town..

So, I don't think I want to vote Ben/Trendall today.

Light fluff

Scummy

No, people here usually wait until everyone is ready to end the day.

What can happen is if the person who is E-1 (1 vote before elimination/hammer) is mafia, he can selfhammer to deny time for town to speak.

Doesn't combine his posts and ends up double posting?

Null

Scums are hiding and we'll find them.

I wouldn't be so sure. Most of the time there is one scum in the afk slots and one in the active slots. I feel like you are trying to guide me away from where scum actually is, but this is WIFOM. What I don't like about this post is that clidd doesn't explain some of his methods to find scum, and he doesn't apply anything more than basic tells to attack someone.

Null/Slightly scummy

To clarify the topic 'SE', idk about everyone, but I don't think SEs take games in the newbie queue very seriously here, in the sense that we are not going to play the best we can. We are often looking for a more chill game, trying to test new styles/approaches, or we are trying to adapt to the site after a long period away (my case).

Of course, if players have any questions about the game, setup or terms used, I believe that no SE will refuse to help, but keep in mind that each one needs to absorb things on their own and find the playstyle that works better for them.

And like the name says, "newbie queue", is primarily for players who are joining the site and still in the process of learning the game.

SE players are just additions to clarify any doubts that may arise (and perhaps share some knowledge, but this varies from player to player).

There is also the case in which you have played a few matches and still do not feel comfortable playing in more competitive queues, in this case, the forum allows you to continue playing in the newbie queue with newbie players, but under the title of 'SE'.

Both of these posts achieve the same point, I'm not sure why you needed to double post here.

Null

No saying that Trendal is lock-town, of course, but I'm leaning town on him today.

This post was literally worthless. It was a double post that rephrased his opinion about Trendall when it was already clear what he thought of Trendall in his previous post.

The ''hello'' tell and the observation of "first mafia" were both attempts to provoke a reaction, not necessarily being a serious opinion about him.

I don't understand how you associated this with malicious behavior.

So....are you going to address that you basically contradicted yourself or what? The "hello" tell that you made is absolute garbage considering Trendall's meta, and "first mafia" is no more than labeling scum. I don't get how such weak attacks will provoke reasoning from Trendall. Although, it's not malicious behavior, I will admit.

Null

People say when I'm town I usually obvtown, but this isn't a button that I can just turn on.

So idk if I'll eventually be obvtown to your perspective, although I already have the firm feeling that you are town.

This post isn't right with the new knowledge that clidd can manually post wallposts and detailed reads whenever he likes, aka obvious town. Also, there is a tell for "I will eventually become town", which is usually a phrase used by scum to compromise their slightly scummy behavior thus far.

Scummy

Other than these specific posts, he has been asking everyone questions, but that is NAI considering that scum clidd also does this. I haven't seen any real deep analysis or contribution, which I would expect from clidd here.

Conclusion: From a meta perspective, this looks like scum clidd. Most of his posts here are similar to his scum behavior, and it looks like his general direction is going towards the scummy side.

VOTE: clidd

Spoiler: Trendall meta research

Trendall's wiki page: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Trendall

Trendall's towngames:

I chose 2 games to analyze Trendall's town behavior, Newbie 1053(His best game in his opinion), and Newbie 2039, his most recent town game.
Newbie 1053(Town win)
Notes: 16 posts out of 209 total posts, survived for town win.
Newbie 2039(Scum win)
Notes: 56 out of 619 total posts, was eliminated D2.

General behavior: Newbie 1053 was 9 years ago, so the most up to date information is in Newbie 2039.
Asks questions from others, has good points and contributes, does perspective reading.

Tone: Has a light tone and makes witty comments in Day 1, tone starts becoming serious once he gets attacked by others.

Frequency: In Newbie 2039, his frequency was all over the place. He would make a couple of posts on one day, then posts wouldn't come from him for 2 days. His posting frequency jumped when he was attacked, because he defended himself hard.

Trendall's scumgames:

Trendall only has 1 scum game, which is Newbie 1897.

Newbie 1897(Scum loss)
Mafia PT
Notes: 46 posts out of 691 total posts, replaced out D1.

General behavior: Starts with witty comments to lighten up the mood, doesn't actively contribute, ends up replacing out D1 due to the pressure. Sets his eyes on attacking his scumreads and tunnels into them.

Tone: Light, witty, gets serious when arguing against his scumreads.

Frequency: Moderately active.

Conclusion: Trendall isn't as easy to read with meta as clidd is. Overall, I think this is a towny Trendall for his start: he started serious right off the bat. Other than that, I can't really get much from Trendall. His contribution levels haven't arisen as very high, and other than that, there are no real obvious pointers that separate town Trendall and scum Trendall. I'm going to keep an eye on Trendall, I can still see him and clidd doing scum theater this early in the game.

[borkjerfkin]

Lavarmanos replaces Pragdoid!

[borkjerfkin]

Rockhopper replaces mars!

[LavarManos]

Hello everyone. I will be catching up sometime later. Excited to be playing with you all

[ben dover123]

Hello Lavarmanos! I suggest you read before you start commenting on stuff. Post #211 is complicated without context.

Hi Rockhopper, how do you do? Like I said with Lavarmanos, you probably want to read before commenting.

@above Excited to be playing with you too!

[Rockhopper]

what's up townsfolk of 2043

[Rockhopper]

so who's scum?

[Rockhopper]

UNVOTE:

[Rockhopper]

im doing fine bendover, love your name btw

[ben dover123]

Care to answer these questions?

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

[Rockhopper]

Where I'm from, artofproblemsolving.com, we use RQS since our profiles do not reveal gender and specific questions like that. Here are some questions I'd like to ask everyone.

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?

2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?

3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?

1) third. i was town both times
2) im neutral
4) i'd say a 11 but thats just me being humble ig

[Rockhopper]

jk maybe 2.5

[LavarManos]

1. This is not my first game. I do not have any good town games or scum games.
2. I do not prefer anything. I'm still learning.
3. 2

[ben dover123]

Ok.

These are some vague answers, but ok.

Also, one more question: How active are you going to be this game?

After you have answered the latter question, you can talk to me after you have read. Reading right now is definitely the most important thing to do.