Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Flea The Magician]

I'll wait for MCs response, I'm more convinced on Titus/BM currently.

[Alisae]

I could be talked into killing flea today as well tbh

[Alisae]

If flareon flips red fos reck

[Flea The Magician]

Flea why are you not voting MC.

BM is transparently busing MCat but he can go out the airlock next.

dude, we're both town here, let's keep it chill

Who is "both", exactly?

[Flea The Magician]

I could be talked into killing flea today as well tbh

For the 2nd or 3rd time on site, I'm fine with being yeeted, as long as it's towards the sun Ｏ(≧∇≦)Ｏ

Because then I become part of a huge nuclear fart and can become a part of everyone's daily existence as they fruitlessly fight the entropy and chaos of the universe as I live as part of comparatively infinite chain of reactions, ultimately resulting in a massive expansion of energy that will consume the Earth and all life that remains upon it. As a result I will become a problem for everyone for over 5 billion years. bwahahahahah

[Flea The Magician]

Why people enable this behavior from me in space and sun related things is beyond me.

[Taly]

I'm here. I'll have more thoughts out soon.

While I see no other

Flea

game where they spew at this volume, I'd like to hear the inconsistencies you see in their ISO

Alisae

. If you're looking at more than one slot to yeet, then I feel there's time to be made productive before any hammer.

Titus

, this question is important for me to sort you.

Titus, you've kept your vote on no-limming - to my understanding - for around 800 posts at this point.

580 was the first post that followed it, and it begins with you discussing the likelihood that you could be mislimmed.

Is it fair to say that part of your vote is defensive or deflective from suspicion (especially since you say your wagon is scum-driven)? Why is it not?

I'm currently gauging whether I scumread

Cakez/TGP

or I'm very biased because I don't like their progression in this game so far.

-

Namely,

Cakez

finally hopping onto a lim wagon that is the MOST popular yet 1573 with little context, specifically since they don't reference why they feel no limming is good.1555. I also think they've been unfair in their disposition towards, but this part is of least importance here.

- TGP

is because they've 1/3rd of their ISO revolves around scumreading

Blitzo

since their entrance, and I wasn't fond of the TvS disposition between

MCat/Blitzo

in 1637. I want to know why

MCat

was a townread that wasn't discussed much in their ISO, they've been widely suspected this game in general.

I forgot

Gamma

was in this game. I liked the mindmeld with

Alisae

on

Blitzo

wagon, but that's how I remembered them...

MCat

is quite a self-aware mafia player by posting 1628, which is the first foothood I've acquired reading that slot. I think I'll be reading other people's reaction as much as his solve content.
I'll take advantage of their willingness to answer me;

Bell, Taly

You are both posting vaguely townie things but there is nothing there that I think is never scum from either of you.

I don't know how well you understand

Bell

-meta but I don't think you're strong with

Taly

-meta.

So what classifies as

"never scum"

for either of us?
He can address this when he brings up his solve.

1633 is top tier posting on

Bell's

end.

Still wrapping up an ISO, but

Alisae/OWER/Bell

are my highest townreads. My scumread on

DGB

remains.

Haschel/Reck

is probably my next ISO if I do any more before EoD1.

If I had to be candid, I haven't felt that many wagons this D1 were very compelling. Part of the fault is mine, and I'd say the rest is a lack of cohesive casing that makes reasons behind a wagon less coherent.

I'll clear the air and say that I'm weary of being a pocket to

Pooky/BM

. I'd like their input on this.

Akarin

feels tonally good as town. I just wish they'd solve more, I see lots of mech from that slot and I don't think it's intentionally rolefishy but I get that impression.

I just don't feel the yuckies people get with the

Blitzo

slot? Perhaps this is me reading too passively, but I don't read them and think

"this is fake."

[Taly]

- Namely, Cakez finally hopping onto a lim wagon that is the MOST popular yet 1573 with little context, specifically since they don't reference why they feel

no limming is good 1555.

I also think they've been unfair in their disposition towards

me

, but this part is of least importance here.

fuck, i butchered this.

[Flea The Magician]

While I see no other

Flea

game where they spew at this volume

If you're looking for ....

*shudders*

Meta with regards to this, I have none.
All I can offer is progressive increase in my spew levels as my time here has gone on.


Looking at my list last night, and having quickly gone back to the posts... my mind and gut are fighting. :: ˓(ᑊᘩᑊ⁎) ::

[Flea The Magician]

Heres my thinking:

MC in the list I've made seems very much the fence at this point, never mind being on it. But that list was things for and against and some random thoughts of mine thrown in.

MC has been consistent in this though, there's not been a people pleaser feel but a consistent "we will win but we need to work for it, this is like herding cats" vibe.



My gut says MC town. My brain is saying "nope, MC bad" and I'm torn.

[SirCakez]

please explain to me
why in the world we are voting murdercat
who is transparently bleeding town
and not blitzo
who is transparently bleeding scum

Mmm why don't you do something about it instead of complaining

[SirCakez]

- Namely, Cakez finally hopping onto a lim wagon that is the MOST popular yet 1573 with little context, specifically since they don't reference why they feel

no limming is good 1555.

I also think they've been unfair in their disposition towards

me

, but this part is of least importance here.

fuck, i butchered this.

Dude I talked about no elim plan for ages in the early game and everybody knows it
You're trying to misrep me here

[Taly]

- Namely, Cakez finally hopping onto a lim wagon that is the MOST popular yet 1573 with little context, specifically since they don't reference why they feel

no limming is good 1555.

I also think they've been unfair in their disposition towards

me

, but this part is of least importance here.

fuck, i butchered this.

Dude I talked about no elim plan for ages in the early game and everybody knows it
You're trying to misrep me here

No, I'm wondering why you changed from wanting a no lim for so long to voting a wagon that has the highest potential to be a lim of the wagons thus far. 1555 1573

I'm getting tired of your insistence to paint my intentions as hostile.

[SirCakez]

I don't believe these wagons will actually go to elim and so I want to indicate my SRs.
I think you are hostile here anyways. You came off as such when I mentioned my view of your posts earlier.

[MURDERCAT]

So what classifies as "never scum" for either of us?

My bell meta isn't that strong either, just one game where he was town. Which is why I feel like, despite you both posting generally good things I wasn't totally convinced.

[Taly]

The last time I was present in the thread I was frustrated, and to call 1316 1331 as hostile is valid.

But my argument to your 1272 was true.
I felt that you cherry-picked one of my earliest posts (and not my whole ISO) as a means to say that I don't have a lot of content, and 1319 still did not give much information on why you thought that.

You inquired about it, and I gave an emotional answer with frustration directed at more than just your slot. Your reply in 1348 doesn't help me realize what you don't follow.

My major issue with your approach to me resides

after

my 1351. I distrust the way you frame the interaction with me.

1832 read as dismissive because you made a post about my content, I engaged, and it looked like you wrote it off by saying I shouldn't have commented.
I gave you a way to engage with me in 1351 and I don't think your assessment that I'm trying to appeal to you is accurate or fair. 1388

If I wanted to appeal to you, why am I interacting with you in hostility, in your eyes?

The assessment doesn't make logical sense to me.

1661 reads as poor faith because you're more focused on detailing why a scumread on me is valid rather than dispelling what uncertainty you have with my posts.

I can understand that we could be miscommunicating, but I don't follow your assessment of my posts and if you're town, I'd rather you work with me here.

[Taly]

Cakez

, I'm not looking for a detailed rebuttal outlining your POV.

I want you to engage with what content I've created, and if you feel that I still haven't provided anything, don't confbias a reason to sus me, explain it.

[Thestatusquo]

VoteCount 1.47

MURDERCAT [6]

outworldER Akarin xRECKONERx alisae sircakez battle mage

blitzo [4]

thegoldenparadox murdercat titus pookythemagicalbear

titus [2]

haschel cedricson DrippingGoofball

Battle Mage [2]

blitzo flea the magician

DrippingGoofball [1]

taly

sircakez [1]

bell

Not Voting [1]

gamma emerald

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-12-08 15:40:31)

[Gamma Emerald]

Iirc only one point has been effectively refuted

What point do you find most persuasive?

Also, any thoughts on your RQS, doubt we're getting any more answers.

Once I’m on a proper computer I’ll compile responses
Don’t wanna do it with insufficient tech

[Thestatusquo]

Haschel Cedricson has been prodded

[Taly]

Stepping from the thread a bit has helped me think a lot through.

This post was the start of my frustration the last time I posted:

Shit.

My townreads are generally people who scumread each other.

BM-Flea

Pooky-Reck

Murder-Alisae

with

Gamma/OWER

floating off somewhere.

This gamestate sucks.

And this was the root of my solving issue:

I honestly don't have many scumreads at the moment. Not something I want to admit, but I'm working to rectify this.

So, I went back to the posts where I felt

most

confident

actually you know what

unless

the scumteam or most of the scumteam is

{pooky/ali/BM/OWER}

, this game does not seem hard.

by extension, i think this group of 4 players are either majority-town or majority-scum

(3:1) (1:3) or (4:0)

probably will get to ISOing somewhere about that at some point.

oh cool, i figured out which group of players i want to solve first before reaching page 50 in a large theme.

So, before I throw a D1 solve into the thread; I'm dumping in my ISOs on

Battle Mage/Ali

and

OWER/Pooky

.

Also, with

Akarin's

1533... I see

Bell/Pooky

may be my PT buddies

<3

[Taly]

Spoiler: Alisae+BM ISO

real talk tho
lets talk about mechancis
I have no idea how to play this setup and I don't want to turn my brain on to think about it so...

I'd think

Alisae

regardless of alignment would be invested with alternative wincons, so for them to follow-up on a mechanical discussion they began in 29 and 30 makes this seem like a genuine thought project rather than a means to gain thread control.

I have 1 I think. I go to a room, then I do my task.

First interaction,

BM

immediately works with

Alisae

upon their 38 proposition.

54 reinforces that

BM

takes this plan in good faith.

yo Alisae - let's go electrical first!

Sure

This doesn't feel S/S at all. Unless they improvised a plan involving too much role speculation I refuse to dive into now, both of them are restricting themselves a lot N1 by publicly accepting how they do their tasks.

And they're the first, there's no clear indication in the thread that everybody will just march to the beat of their drum.

It feels unnecessary for these posts to come from both as scum.

VOTE: XreckonerX

Vote is reasonable. 89 was when

Reck

came in to just doing nothing... on page 4.

I could be wrong but I think being okay with a no lynch but also being not okay with claiming actions feels like a weird combination to come from scum

Gives

Cakez

benefit of the doubt. Something to note for later.

243 by

BM

and 387 by

Alisae

feel asynchronous.

BM

casually comments on

OWER

painting

Pooky/Alisae

as scum and yet

Alisae

outlines their thoughts to

OWER

in a constructive manner that is removed from doubtcasting

OWER's

intentions.

This is another point for non-S/S but I think this leans to

Alisae

town a bit. My experience with scum-them is that they're quite to control perception and opening up to

OWER

is the opposite of that because they're literally giving someone else control of the game's narrative.

Alisae

also questions

OWER

and... as I have context to how they think as I've recently hydra'd with them.... no alarms are sounding with their inquiry.

meh
too early to tell
if ur scum u'll obvscum if ur town u'll obvtown me thinks

Very lax take on

Titus

, good to document.

VOTE: titus

This may be 100+ posts ago but if

Alisae/BM

S-S ever existed... they're not following each other onto wagons and are only focused with the other's thoughts via setup.

yo ali where the wagons at or where the discussion for them at

how do you feel about the plist lumping you and pooky in the same vein together and by extension, how i am a contributor to that perception?

I don’t really care at the moment tbh

Apathetic, could be voting somewhere, isn't... first vote is at 646 on

Haschel

.

Why not jump into the young, chaotic gamestate that makes Large Themes insane? Doesn't. Sensible.

Also, unphased by the association to

Pooky

. This is good. This is a point against

Pooky/Alisae

S-S because I think effort would be placed into trying to dispel this thought ruminating in the thread.

700 is to murder but pooky can answer to idc

Again, prompting

Pooky

when it's not necessary.

Ya I want some Chaos
I trust you to create that environment

You're town, Pooky is town, that's what I got so far.

hey, I'm town!

There's a trend with

BM's

posts where they continually inject the idea that they're obvtown and by implication, shouldn't warrant suspicion... I don't like this type of posting because it serves nothing to a conversation but I've seen

BM

do it as town before.

you know
it now occured to me that maybe we shouldn't have said what our post restrictions were?

What are the pros & cons?

well I thought a con was scum get to fake post restrictions, but apparently they already have a list, so this isn't a con.
the pros would be I'm not actually sure. Its fun. There we go.

If

Alisae's

scum, they're

very comfortable

, and we're fucked.

But that's too much of a paranoia-driven thought process. I don't see an agenda here.

you're planning to elim me today so does it matter?

Flippant. I'm starting to sympathize with the

BM

wagon, although, I'm unsure how NAI this statement is.

So I can start getting a ball rolling on something other than mechanical talk and setup speculation.

This doesn't take long to think about.

I also want to see more posting from you in general since this posting from you doesn't feel like what I've witnessed first-hand in O799.

I was the boss in that game. here I'm a pawn amongst queens.

plus i'm not big on mech talk really, and I like simple plans that people actually deliver on. the idea of doing half a massclaim and then abandoning it, is a bit wtf?

I can see this from scum POV trying to revive more information about mechanics, but

BM

began this game interacting with mechanical discussion... so this isn't surprising or worrying to read.

@Taly,

Pooky, alisae, you (or you're doing a good job of faking some pretty detailed thoughts!), Flea,
even though I gave a warning about the doggo the doggo is still town spewing from my pov.

The rest are kinda meh, I could prolly point to weak town leans/scum leans but per post it would balance on and off.
Titus I'm rapidly vacillitating on because she looks like obv scum, but she's always scum/third party so.
Have I even played with town titus.
Oh. Yeah sort of.

a tactic scum!taly likes to use is they like to make it easier for other people to spew themselves

The post I dislike most about

Alisae's

entire ISO.

Bell

was sending an olive branch and reading me with good faith and they interject with a reason to doubtcast that.

I also feel like it's a slight misrep because I bring people to spew regardless of my alignment. Me getting information from others is not what's specifically AI, it's what I do with/during/before/after that information.

I don't fault

Alisae

though... I'm a hard metaread.

Maybe I just really like Flea's posting this game and I'm biased tho.

So you're saying that Taly is good at being scum? Aight.

missed this.
They can be. Idunno if you saw my MtG thread but I came out of a scum hydra with them. Their scumplay is fairly green. TBH when we hydra'd, they told me something that I needed to look out and to kill them on site if they do it but I don't recall what that is for the life of me.
I think I have an idea on how to catch scum!Taly if it exists in this game but if that world exists, it won't be until a wolf before him dies.

This is another reason why I didn't push

Alisae

.

I think looking at me at a later day is a valid way to sort me if I don't get nightkilled... I just hope

Alisae

isn't posting this as a precursor to case me when it's most viable to lim me.

I mean, I've only been caught as scum via associations and busses before... and I'm mislimmed more often.

But relatively speaking, I don't get limmed often at all.

Maybe I just really like Flea's posting this game and I'm biased tho.

So you're saying that Taly is good at being scum? Aight.

missed this.
They can be. Idunno if you saw my MtG thread but I came out of a scum hydra with them. Their scumplay is fairly green. TBH when we hydra'd, they told me something that I needed to look out and to kill them on site if they do it but I don't recall what that is for the life of me.
I think I have an idea on how to catch scum!Taly if it exists in this game but if that world exists, it won't be until a wolf before him dies.

i dont remember saying something

exactly

like

"kill me on sight if i do something"

, but i might have.

i cant tell if your take on me is to be pragmatic knowing what im capable of, or youre positioning around me since your approach to me right now is to shelve me.

basically, are you taking to me in good faith here? i feel like ive had more posts directed to or about you than otherwise, so i want to know if the distance is intentional.

atm ur just completely not on my radar

Fair. I admit and I think I told

Alisae

that I fall into the background often as scum.

But this isn't very intentional, if my word means anything here, it's a large theme.

My second thought was that TGP was entirely forgettable.
I might let that develop for a bit and see what happens.

obviously i can't prove this, but i think blitzo wrote this AFTER previewing and faked it so they didn't

what the fuck

My thoughts exactly.

1240 is an interesting take from

Alisae

onto

Haschel

. They're a scumread (I presume) and yet

Alisae

sees a post that they don't agree with and decides not to push it further.

Ali is a known powerwolf and wants to manipulate the gamestate/narrative to eir advantage and the fact that they were one of the first people pushing No Eliminate plan makes me suspicious.

I'M NOT EVEN DOING ANY OF THAT
omg
im malding

Can we move on to no elimination and compliance? I am bored and this feels like an RVS that will last forever.

HOLY SHIT TITUS
NO
STOP
LET PEOPLE SCUMHUNT IF THEY WANT TO THERE'S NO HARM IN THAT.

lmfao

Yeah my townread on Ali rn is based on the fact there's been no AtE or weird aggression lol

I use emotion as town.

Alisae's

rage caps are even funnier with this interaction. They call themselves out to

Flea

. Town does this more often than scum if they feel a read on them doesn't make sense, and 1443 is a later vote so this post - in context - may be affecting

Alisae's

read on

Flea

adversely.

If you want to group, requote this list in a chain

Taly, come to Electrical tonight.

Titus reads all over the place here - unusual for her.

Ignoring the baiting from Flea - I have been pulling out some great reads so far imho.

>

Interested in working with me.

>

Knowing the 1440 vote progression on

Titus

, makes me wonder if this was in some form a planned vote. Although, I did agree with

BM

here.

>

I also agree with

BM's

take to

Flea

, it's hard to figure out what their thoughts are on

BM

because it's veiled in walls mainly looking at posts rather than

BM

as a whole.

I don't think

BM

has really accomplished much specifically with their wagon but perhaps that's a playstyle disparity between us and how we think?

also I'd missed your post Taly, but I havent really bothered explaining reads as the game is moving so fast, and it isn't like anyone is sheeping me right now

at some point when things calm down, I'll collate everything and decide what to do.

In the meantime I guess I just need to avoid getting elimmed myself haha

my townblock is pretty good: Pooky, Cakez, Gamma, TGP, Akarin were in there, I forget who else. I can buy OutWorldER as town from those voting me. Leaning town on Alisae too.

DGB is doing pretty standard scum tactic of just tunnelling someone they see as an easy target. Titus is a bit erratic but also distant and doesn't feel as invested in the game - more in line with scum vibe than town vibe. Blitzo has been scummy but he also feels like the sort of player who scum would push as a cheap mis-elim. Flea is doing a lot of that LAMISTy stuff but it's superficial - long ISO cases which don't strike a balanced objective line, are a scum move I've used many times in my youth.

Aside from

Cakez/TGP/Akarin

townread confidence strength, I mindmeld

BM

with his reads, town and scum.

I'm not sure about

Titus

but I agree with

DGB

assesment.

I'll reserve thoughts on

Flea

when I spew a D1 solve.

I detected genuine emotion from

BM's

1310 and I don't think scum angles frustration this way very often. It could've been channeled into an aggressive push and I don't think

BM

is trying to placate

Flea

just to get pressure off.

Taly-

let's just work outside of our respective townpools then. We aren't too far off each other tbh.

i've played 1 game with cakez town, and 1 game with cakez scum. In the nicest possible way, when he was scum he was completely obvscum, and when he was town he was pretty obviously town. As scum he got elimmed on Day 1 for basically trying to run a fake-meta gambit on me (as well as some other things i think). In this game, he's giving believable pro-town takes and coming across much more natural. I think cakez is sweet.

The most helpful post to me this game.

Unless

BM

is hard-attempting to pocket me, I don't know why scum-him wants to work with me when

Cakez/Titus/DGB/Akarin

have all either taken frustration to my posts, scumread me, or have had negative commentary on my POV.

VOTE: Titus

Haschel, you with me?

I'm with you

VOTE: Titus

VOTE: Flea

...Asynchronous and D1 is halfway finished. Why go on different pushes now?

Synopsis

I really don't see how

Alisae/BM

are S/S here, or everything they're doing is to distance them in the context of how they read the game.

I will note, they don't often state reads on the other, so I will be attentive to this in the future.

Alisae

is town because their POV lacks what I'd imagine scum-them,

at the very least

, this stage of the game.

BM

is less confidently town, I wonder if their more flippant disposition is to nullify suspicion and placate others.

[Taly]

Spoiler: Pooky+OWER ISO

MechPooky:

10 rooms

4->3->3

Nelim to win? More town people = faster task completion

ok mass task claim time

i have navigation and cafeteria so I'm a fat pilot

First bits of content of

Pooky

are mainly setup but actually drive the mechanical discussion narrative.

I assume Shea has put enough thought into this that this probably won't just win the game for us.
I also assume that we can't just no elim to a task victory easily.
Not that I'm saying we shouldn't do this but ya know

susp

I can post link a lot of

Pooky

just saying

"susp"

to

Murder

, some with

Haschel's

posts, and I've noticed some for

Gamma/Rec/OWER/I think Cakez?

.

On one hand, this is

Pooky

simplifying his reads as he's stuck on working toward a mechanical solve versus anything else.

The other hand, is that these posts are just placeholders so pushing to lim a slot makes more logical sense...

And on a deeper look,

Pooky

is trying to test the waters; either to evaluate how the thread interacts with the other, or try to push people to follow his narrative by continually repeating the same rhetoric.

Looking at

2

:

2

in terms of TAI and SAI. Can't parse off his

"susp"

posts alone.

i think murder cat is trying to go for the reactor sabotage

At least in contact with

Murder

, the 1st and 4th reasons are possible ways to look at this. Mechanical solve orientation, or thread control.

1

:

1

motivation I'm seeing.

This narrows down

Pooky's

way of thinking slightly in context of his later posts.

97 reinforces this take.

VOTE: Pooky

Pooky/Alisae are scum.

Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.

All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.

Strong entry reads.

OWER's

posts in time should clarify the sincerity of them.

why would pocketing even matter if we're going for a task win?

This is a reply to

OWER's

410 and there's NO direct commentary on

OWER's

post about

Pooky/Alisae

.

I think

Pooky

focusing on the task wincon is becoming genuine but I also feel that his lack of reply about the

Pooky/Alisae

S-S assessment is a side-step rather than taking his reply as nonchalance.

This was after

OWER/Alisae

discussed in depth about each other's stances on how to go about the game.

One last thing before I dip out of this thread for a while because my head gets woozy when I think too hard.

The No Elim plan is also awful because it prevents PR's from forming reads and will make Town night actions awful.

why would pocketing even matter if we're going for a task win?

pedit: two last things

Town PR's exist, unknown scum utility exists, people getting smart to this BS plan will exist.

OWER

brings the strongest counterpoint to

Alisae/Pooky

among EVERY other slot in this game.

Town can have role-incentives to tell or NOT tell what their role information is, and vice versa for scum.

This makes

OWER's

stance far more genuine and less likely to be a fabricated argument just to contrast

Alisae/Pooky

.

every one of your complaints has to do with solving this game by killing the bad guys

im proposing we solve the game by just doing all the tasks as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Pooky

seems to miss

OWER's

point but I don't think that's AI.

Again,

Pooky

sticks to the same goal of the game. Though I wonder, if

Pooky

were scum doing this, why didn't he come after

OWER's

opposition sooner when the ideas were fresh in the thread and could've easily been shaded like the many other voices that did?

BM/TGP/etc.

I think this favors T/T more than T/S, but after so many posts with

Pooky

reiterating the same line of logic, I begin to trust his disposition less.

And I've said, 1000 times and I'll keep saying it:

Trying to win off solely off mech in a closed setup is setting up town for failure

You are setting up town for failure

You are scum.

Actual last post, I'm going to log off and wait for others because I'm sure others are not happy with me spamming shit up.

nope

Outworld sounds more like ignorant town than scum tho

Casual. Is

Pooky

like this as scum?

The benefit of the doubt for

OWER

is there, which makes me think not.

OWER

is an interesting slot in this situation, on one hand, he has a valid viewpoint on

Pooky/Ali

... the other, is that it is weird AF for him to wagon

Titus

after doubling-down on the

Pooky

scumread. Interactions make him least likely to be aligned with the other... OR

(2:2)

situation involving him is where i would start to investigate.

I mostly went with the Titus wagon to get things off this mech talk and encourage town to ditch the awful No Elim plan.

Already it's paid off since we've got more tangible things to go after and our positions in the game now are not solely based on support/opposition for the Pooky/Ali plan, at least for the people involved in this wagon.

I had reservations about Titus's posting before this recent bout since it feels like she should've at least had some weigh-in on the mech posting but this recent streak seems mostly like standard Titus.

Titus's points against BM ring true and considering his stances earlier his flip will help us sort the Pooky/Ali plan so I'm on board there.

VOTE: Battle Mage

@Titus

Who do you think are the scum on/were on your wagon outside of Battle Mage or is BM the only read you've got there?

Did not make his reply post a rationality to why my solve is misled or push me in a specific direction.

I'm very strong on

OWER

town even by this point.

I'm still in vehement disagreement of No Elim being good here, especially considering recent events.

At the very least, I'd like to flip somebody with hard stances on it, flip Me/Reck or Pooky/Ali. Then use the alignment to determine who's right.

I don't personally like this approach lims mainly for a way to resolve the gamestate.

But since

OWER

scumreads

Pooky

and/or

Ali

at this point, it makes sense.

It is iffy that he lumped

Reck

in with himself. Feels like a dichotomy creation. He doesn't expand on this, so I don't think it's an agenda.

why is murdercatto not tryharding this game?

highly susp

Biggest concern for

Pooky

is why he feels so strongly on

Murdercat

but is so focused on mechanical discussion.

It feels noncommittal to say you're solving this game via mech but keep detailing an actual solve for a slot.

can someone condense the cases on

BM

and

Haschel

?

flea

i notice you say

Hasch

is sus but are still on

BM

, why?

i liked

reck's

732, to be concise, i dont think they are manufactured takes.

reck

, hmu

p-edit

Blitzo is scum :sadface:

Sell me on this.

you inquire like this a lot, what is the purpose?

If the person is town I get their fellow perspective on where they're at in the game, which helps me shape my own reads.

If the person is scum then their read will be fake or will have an agenda behind it, which will show, albeit most likely not immedietly.

Good reply.

OWER's

approach has a lot of context toward gamesolving with this answer.

read posts 0-150 of pooky/ali

they did not begin with asserting their plans and they are consistently building off the other... really hard to fake this as theatre imo.

alisae is so in tune with me

e is precious

I don't think S/S flaunts buddying this hard, maybe not even S/T.

Alisae

being likelier town, but I also have to consider that

Pooky

may be trying to pocket.

Taly is by far my strongest townread for being the person who is visibly doing the most scumhunting.

This wasn't on the list of things I think I'd read upon my lazy half-ass skim But I'll take it.

Flea/OWER/Murder

, you all have very different vibes than in https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84987 where I was scum hydra with

Ali

wolfing on all of you townies

flea

, you are much more upfront with POV, kind of hard to navigate and get to the meat of your posting, and you take so much initiative here that I don't know how genuine that is.

OWER

, your dog pic is really fucking cute and that probably contributes to the pocket, can you give me an in depth take on

BM/Ali/Pooky

? You are far more active in pushing your ideas than the linked game above.

Murder

, WHERE YOU AT? methinks I skim over you so much that you are an assassin meant to kill us all quietly... but tbh I sympathize, I think I'd be FAR less

"not-on-the-radar"

if people took the time to read me more.

I stand by

Bell/Ali/Pooky/Reck/OWER/Gamma

town

TENTATIVELY

. I want to reread them as well as

BM/Murder/Flea

before I double-down 100%.

If I can make a solid towncore with at LEAST 6-7 people AND find a vote this dayphase, I'd be golden with solving in the future.

DG

;3 I'll vote soon, I never disappoint.

also who is

Blitzo

? i demand everybody who reads this post to say

"

Blitzo

is town/scum/?"

so I can gauge how many wagons this gamestate actually wants to have...

BM's play is far different from what I remember in the game I played with him, where was very active in engaging other people and wasn't really a passive fluff-poster like he is here. Especially given there's a lot of contradictions in his play so far. (Compare 111 to 129, 75 and 153). Other posts like 198 and such ping me.

Ali is a known powerwolf and wants to manipulate the gamestate/narrative to eir advantage and the fact that they were one of the first people pushing No Eliminate plan makes me suspicious.

The thing that really pings me about both of them is that neither put a vote down in RVS, which even Pooky did. Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there but to me it signals that they knew the plan they wanted to push before the game started, despite Ali saying e hadn't thought about the setup and didn't want to.

Pooky is probably my weakest SR after a bit of thought, but I still have a lot of reservations about people trying to push a mechanical victory in a closed setup and his somewhat disingenuous approach to opposition such as in 1113. I think of the three, he's probably the most likely to just be overeager town that's tunnel visioning on a alt. win-con.

As for why my play is different, it's mostly because after that game I finally figured out how I want to approach mafia games as town, how I want to read them, and a style of analysis. Which is why I'm more confident and a bit more thought-out here.

Regarding more mech-talk:

I think Leashing is fine but better to be done in a limited manner. Ideas include:

A) Having 1 claim in each area. That's 10 claims but at the very least we'll know that 1 person should or should not be in that area.

B) Getting task claims out of high SR'd people to track their movement.

C) TR's task claiming with each other to form town-blocs. If we do this right we can essentially have multiple groups of Masons running around.

I think seeing the Areas as just rooms to do tasks in and avoid multi-kills is a bad idea. I think having hoods which anyone can enter is a pretty powerful ability for Town for the same reason why Neighborizer is a strong role in the right hands.

OWER

starts to see some points that are helpful to the mechanical discussion, and I think this makes logical sense with his dissipating scumread on

Pooky

.

This is likely not S/S because while they both seem to calm down with each other mutually, their stances are explainable.

ok
Does anyone else have the feeling with Taly's posts that she is writing a lot of words but none of them actually mean that much?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I highly doubt DGB read any of taly's posts b4 responding here.

Liked this post. I felt similar to

DGB

. If

Pooky's

letting me lean on him interaction-wise through a soft-defense, then he's subtle with it.

Really like this post from Taly, reasonable suggestions and thought processes, a lot of which are similar to how I'm thinking about the game.

Haven't been posting a lot due to being busy with other things, but I will say that I do have stuff to work with here, I just need time to formulate it into my thoughts on the game.

I don't know how this can be a pocket, honestly. This is at a time in the thread where I'm scumread but not pushed for a lim. Awkward stance to support my posts as scum.

My strongest TR's at this point are Akarin and Bell, mostly because they least fit into the game-state as I observed in 1553. I also think Blitzo is somewhat likely to be town for those reasons. The wagon on him doesn't really seem to have a driver? At least that I've observed, and despite no-one really coming to his defense it's mostly stalled, and while normally you could attribute that to the No Elim plan there seems to be a consensus to vote anyways so the stagnation of his wagon suggests to me that he's probably town.

I keep thinking about it and I'm mostly talking myself into a Murdercat vote the more I do. He seems to be the main one keeping the game in stagnation and furthermore has expressed content with this game-state, despite the current trajectory of this day being mostly bad for town with the weak reads from most players and lacking motivation. He shows no initiative to try and influence the game-state in any way and his posts such as 1180 showcase that he has no initiative to force other slots to make AI content.

VOTE: Murdercat

As an aside, I had time to think about it and I've mostly come around to the claiming rooms part of the plan, though not to the No Elim portion.

So I've got 1 task in Cafeteria.

I don't feel too confident with a

MCat

solve at the moment but this and 1625 aligns very keenly with the gamestate read he proposes in 1553 and

OWER

would have to be top level scum to be this detailed in thought process AND fabricate a concrete conclusion.

your links don't work

my scumteam will be bad at this stage but something to the effect of {MC, BM, ?, ?}. My other reads are weak, don't fit into the game narrative and I'd rather see a lot of things before deciding MC's partners (assuming that I'm right on MC, which I think I am.)

Could've construed

Flea's

post links as a scumslip but just lets

Flea

know.

Synopsis

I... I don't see scum-

OWER

. At all.

I have reservations with

Pooky's

disparity between wanting to mechanically win so strongly but also solve in a manner that doubtcasts quite a few players' post with low context.

But I have no clue who

Pooky's

team would be, and I like some of their posts.

So

OWER

is solid town around the tier of

Alisae

,

Pooky

is low-town to

"I'm sorting"

around

BM's

level.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma - is there a specific point on the case on me that you feel hasn't been addressed specifically?

Idk, I’m looking at the case more critically than your response rn

[Taly]

Spoiler: Pooky+OWER ISO

MechPooky:

10 rooms

4->3->3

Nelim to win? More town people = faster task completion

ok mass task claim time

i have navigation and cafeteria so I'm a fat pilot

First bits of content of

Pooky

are mainly setup but actually drive the mechanical discussion narrative.

I assume Shea has put enough thought into this that this probably won't just win the game for us.
I also assume that we can't just no elim to a task victory easily.
Not that I'm saying we shouldn't do this but ya know

susp

I can post link a lot of

Pooky

just saying

"susp"

to

Murder

, some with

Haschel's

posts, and I've noticed some for

Gamma/Rec/OWER/I think Cakez?

.

On one hand, this is

Pooky

simplifying his reads as he's stuck on working toward a mechanical solve versus anything else.

The other hand, is that these posts are just placeholders so pushing to lim a slot makes more logical sense...

And on a deeper look,

Pooky

is trying to test the waters; either to evaluate how the thread interacts with the other, or try to push people to follow his narrative by continually repeating the same rhetoric.

Looking at

2

:

2

in terms of TAI and SAI. Can't parse off his

"susp"

posts alone.

i think murder cat is trying to go for the reactor sabotage

At least in contact with

Murder

, the 1st and 4th reasons are possible ways to look at this. Mechanical solve orientation, or thread control.

1

:

1

motivation I'm seeing.

This narrows down

Pooky's

way of thinking slightly in context of his later posts.

97 reinforces this take.

VOTE: Pooky

Pooky/Alisae are scum.

Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.

All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.

Strong entry reads.

OWER's

posts in time should clarify the sincerity of them.

why would pocketing even matter if we're going for a task win?

This is a reply to

OWER's

410 and there's NO direct commentary on

OWER's

post about

Pooky/Alisae

.

I think

Pooky

focusing on the task wincon is becoming genuine but I also feel that his lack of reply about the

Pooky/Alisae

S-S assessment is a side-step rather than taking his reply as nonchalance.

This was after

OWER/Alisae

discussed in depth about each other's stances on how to go about the game.

One last thing before I dip out of this thread for a while because my head gets woozy when I think too hard.

The No Elim plan is also awful because it prevents PR's from forming reads and will make Town night actions awful.

why would pocketing even matter if we're going for a task win?

pedit: two last things

Town PR's exist, unknown scum utility exists, people getting smart to this BS plan will exist.

OWER

brings the strongest counterpoint to

Alisae/Pooky

among EVERY other slot in this game.

Town can have role-incentives to tell or NOT tell what their role information is, and vice versa for scum.

This makes

OWER's

stance far more genuine and less likely to be a fabricated argument just to contrast

Alisae/Pooky

.

every one of your complaints has to do with solving this game by killing the bad guys

im proposing we solve the game by just doing all the tasks as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Pooky

seems to miss

OWER's

point but I don't think that's AI.

Again,

Pooky

sticks to the same goal of the game. Though I wonder, if

Pooky

were scum doing this, why didn't he come after

OWER's

opposition sooner when the ideas were fresh in the thread and could've easily been shaded like the many other voices that did?

BM/TGP/etc.

I think this favors T/T more than T/S, but after so many posts with

Pooky

reiterating the same line of logic, I begin to trust his disposition less.

And I've said, 1000 times and I'll keep saying it:

Trying to win off solely off mech in a closed setup is setting up town for failure

You are setting up town for failure

You are scum.

Actual last post, I'm going to log off and wait for others because I'm sure others are not happy with me spamming shit up.

nope

Outworld sounds more like ignorant town than scum tho

Casual. Is

Pooky

like this as scum?

The benefit of the doubt for

OWER

is there, which makes me think not.

OWER

is an interesting slot in this situation, on one hand, he has a valid viewpoint on

Pooky/Ali

... the other, is that it is weird AF for him to wagon

Titus

after doubling-down on the

Pooky

scumread. Interactions make him least likely to be aligned with the other... OR

(2:2)

situation involving him is where i would start to investigate.

I mostly went with the Titus wagon to get things off this mech talk and encourage town to ditch the awful No Elim plan.

Already it's paid off since we've got more tangible things to go after and our positions in the game now are not solely based on support/opposition for the Pooky/Ali plan, at least for the people involved in this wagon.

I had reservations about Titus's posting before this recent bout since it feels like she should've at least had some weigh-in on the mech posting but this recent streak seems mostly like standard Titus.

Titus's points against BM ring true and considering his stances earlier his flip will help us sort the Pooky/Ali plan so I'm on board there.

VOTE: Battle Mage

@Titus

Who do you think are the scum on/were on your wagon outside of Battle Mage or is BM the only read you've got there?

Did not make his reply post a rationality to why my solve is misled or push me in a specific direction.

I'm very strong on

OWER

town even by this point.

I'm still in vehement disagreement of No Elim being good here, especially considering recent events.

At the very least, I'd like to flip somebody with hard stances on it, flip Me/Reck or Pooky/Ali. Then use the alignment to determine who's right.

I don't personally like this approach lims mainly for a way to resolve the gamestate.

But since

OWER

scumreads

Pooky

and/or

Ali

at this point, it makes sense.

It is iffy that he lumped

Reck

in with himself. Feels like a dichotomy creation. He doesn't expand on this, so I don't think it's an agenda.

why is murdercatto not tryharding this game?

highly susp

Biggest concern for

Pooky

is why he feels so strongly on

Murdercat

but is so focused on mechanical discussion.

It feels noncommittal to say you're solving this game via mech but keep detailing an actual solve for a slot.

can someone condense the cases on

BM

and

Haschel

?

flea

i notice you say

Hasch

is sus but are still on

BM

, why?

i liked

reck's

732, to be concise, i dont think they are manufactured takes.

reck

, hmu

p-edit

Blitzo is scum :sadface:

Sell me on this.

you inquire like this a lot, what is the purpose?

If the person is town I get their fellow perspective on where they're at in the game, which helps me shape my own reads.

If the person is scum then their read will be fake or will have an agenda behind it, which will show, albeit most likely not immedietly.

Good reply.

OWER's

approach has a lot of context toward gamesolving with this answer.

read posts 0-150 of pooky/ali

they did not begin with asserting their plans and they are consistently building off the other... really hard to fake this as theatre imo.

alisae is so in tune with me

e is precious

I don't think S/S flaunts buddying this hard, maybe not even S/T.

Alisae

being likelier town, but I also have to consider that

Pooky

may be trying to pocket.

Taly is by far my strongest townread for being the person who is visibly doing the most scumhunting.

This wasn't on the list of things I think I'd read upon my lazy half-ass skim But I'll take it.

Flea/OWER/Murder

, you all have very different vibes than in https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84987 where I was scum hydra with

Ali

wolfing on all of you townies

flea

, you are much more upfront with POV, kind of hard to navigate and get to the meat of your posting, and you take so much initiative here that I don't know how genuine that is.

OWER

, your dog pic is really fucking cute and that probably contributes to the pocket, can you give me an in depth take on

BM/Ali/Pooky

? You are far more active in pushing your ideas than the linked game above.

Murder

, WHERE YOU AT? methinks I skim over you so much that you are an assassin meant to kill us all quietly... but tbh I sympathize, I think I'd be FAR less

"not-on-the-radar"

if people took the time to read me more.

I stand by

Bell/Ali/Pooky/Reck/OWER/Gamma

town

TENTATIVELY

. I want to reread them as well as

BM/Murder/Flea

before I double-down 100%.

If I can make a solid towncore with at LEAST 6-7 people AND find a vote this dayphase, I'd be golden with solving in the future.

DG

;3 I'll vote soon, I never disappoint.

also who is

Blitzo

? i demand everybody who reads this post to say

"

Blitzo

is town/scum/?"

so I can gauge how many wagons this gamestate actually wants to have...

BM's play is far different from what I remember in the game I played with him, where was very active in engaging other people and wasn't really a passive fluff-poster like he is here. Especially given there's a lot of contradictions in his play so far. (Compare 111 to 129, 75 and 153). Other posts like 198 and such ping me.

Ali is a known powerwolf and wants to manipulate the gamestate/narrative to eir advantage and the fact that they were one of the first people pushing No Eliminate plan makes me suspicious.

The thing that really pings me about both of them is that neither put a vote down in RVS, which even Pooky did. Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there but to me it signals that they knew the plan they wanted to push before the game started, despite Ali saying e hadn't thought about the setup and didn't want to.

Pooky is probably my weakest SR after a bit of thought, but I still have a lot of reservations about people trying to push a mechanical victory in a closed setup and his somewhat disingenuous approach to opposition such as in 1113. I think of the three, he's probably the most likely to just be overeager town that's tunnel visioning on a alt. win-con.

As for why my play is different, it's mostly because after that game I finally figured out how I want to approach mafia games as town, how I want to read them, and a style of analysis. Which is why I'm more confident and a bit more thought-out here.

Regarding more mech-talk:

I think Leashing is fine but better to be done in a limited manner. Ideas include:

A) Having 1 claim in each area. That's 10 claims but at the very least we'll know that 1 person should or should not be in that area.

B) Getting task claims out of high SR'd people to track their movement.

C) TR's task claiming with each other to form town-blocs. If we do this right we can essentially have multiple groups of Masons running around.

I think seeing the Areas as just rooms to do tasks in and avoid multi-kills is a bad idea. I think having hoods which anyone can enter is a pretty powerful ability for Town for the same reason why Neighborizer is a strong role in the right hands.

OWER

starts to see some points that are helpful to the mechanical discussion, and I think this makes logical sense with his dissipating scumread on

Pooky

.

This is likely not S/S because while they both seem to calm down with each other mutually, their stances are explainable.

ok
Does anyone else have the feeling with Taly's posts that she is writing a lot of words but none of them actually mean that much?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I highly doubt DGB read any of taly's posts b4 responding here.

Liked this post. I felt similar to

DGB

. If

Pooky's

letting me lean on him interaction-wise through a soft-defense, then he's subtle with it.

Really like this post from Taly, reasonable suggestions and thought processes, a lot of which are similar to how I'm thinking about the game.

Haven't been posting a lot due to being busy with other things, but I will say that I do have stuff to work with here, I just need time to formulate it into my thoughts on the game.

I don't know how this can be a pocket, honestly. This is at a time in the thread where I'm scumread but not pushed for a lim. Awkward stance to support my posts as scum.

My strongest TR's at this point are Akarin and Bell, mostly because they least fit into the game-state as I observed in 1553. I also think Blitzo is somewhat likely to be town for those reasons. The wagon on him doesn't really seem to have a driver? At least that I've observed, and despite no-one really coming to his defense it's mostly stalled, and while normally you could attribute that to the No Elim plan there seems to be a consensus to vote anyways so the stagnation of his wagon suggests to me that he's probably town.

I keep thinking about it and I'm mostly talking myself into a Murdercat vote the more I do. He seems to be the main one keeping the game in stagnation and furthermore has expressed content with this game-state, despite the current trajectory of this day being mostly bad for town with the weak reads from most players and lacking motivation. He shows no initiative to try and influence the game-state in any way and his posts such as 1180 showcase that he has no initiative to force other slots to make AI content.

VOTE: Murdercat

As an aside, I had time to think about it and I've mostly come around to the claiming rooms part of the plan, though not to the No Elim portion.

So I've got 1 task in Cafeteria.

I don't feel too confident with a

MCat

solve at the moment but this and 1625 aligns very keenly with the gamestate read he proposes in 1553 and

OWER

would have to be top level scum to be this detailed in thought process AND fabricate a concrete conclusion.

your links don't work

my scumteam will be bad at this stage but something to the effect of {MC, BM, ?, ?}. My other reads are weak, don't fit into the game narrative and I'd rather see a lot of things before deciding MC's partners (assuming that I'm right on MC, which I think I am.)

Could've construed

Flea's

post links as a scumslip but just lets

Flea

know.

Synopsis

I... I don't see scum-

OWER

. At all.

I have reservations with

Pooky's

disparity between wanting to mechanically win so strongly but also solve in a manner that doubtcasts quite a few players' post with low context.

But I have no clue who

Pooky's

team would be, and I like some of their posts.

So

OWER

is solid town around the tier of

Alisae

,

Pooky

is low-town to

"I'm sorting"

around

BM's

level.