Silent Star 3: Royalty

[team rocket queen]

VC on this page.

@jessie, do you think hop feels like Matrix De Hop?

here's link:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=84489

Spoiler:

town sample:

town

fusion mafia
korean pop music
matrix decipher
death curse

mafia sample: (bad because ancient but it is what it is; there's also a micro in which hopkirk made four posts and a thirteen page game i couldn't make much sense of but they do not seem useful here):

mafia

beyond death (2017)
mini normal 1938 (2017)
radjarok (2015)
mewbie 1472 (2014)

it is hard for me to weigh the things that seem to come from familiarity with other players across games. i think hopkirk feels similar to matrix decipher at times, mainly when interacting in real time, but across the board no. i think the comparison to fusion mafia is even more extreme in terms of difference from his play here, but his play in korean pop music actually feels very similar to this game to me. i wish i could research hopkirk's use of 'ew' and variations across all of the games outside of the sample to see because i noticed it in a couple places in addition to in this game but the search functionality does not allow for two letter combinations.

hopkirk's reaction to having a couple votes on him did not feel fitting to the situation to me, and i agree with isis that his reaction to the hectic wagon felt weird, as i said at the time, mainly because it seemed internally inconsistent?

i would normally townread 2159 but i also said in this game that that is something that usually comes from town so it is hard not to counterweight it even if that may be unfair.

[team rocket queen]

with that said, i really do not trust the hopkirk wagon. it is three players, all of whose reads on eachother do not make a lot of sense to me, two of which were voting hopkirk, left to start other wagons, both of those wagons gained additional votes from other players, and then infinity and skitter returned to the hopkirk wagon.

[team rocket queen]

i feel that we shouldn't let this go to plurality.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

who do you want jessie?

[team rocket queen]

who do you want jessie?

sorry trying to decide that now

it's like, gypyx's early game felt +town to me. but the way he is avoiding the game does not feel like the way town or mafia avoid a game to me? like it still feels like he is avoiding the game intentionally, and then only posting to remind us that he is avoiding the game intentionally.

and i don't trust the hopkirk wagon but i don't trust hopkirk either. and skitter isn't more suspicious to me than infinity and it feels like the reasons they are suspicious to me are very similar.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sorry trying to decide that now

you have nothing to apologize to me for, if anything I am being unfair putting the burden on you.

sorry I am so confused this game :/

[Kanna]

¶

Votecount 2.0.8

[3] Hopkirk:

Isis, skitter30, Infinity 324

[2] Gypyx:

Gloria Cleary, Ydrasse

[2] skitter30:

Hopkirk, Dunnstral

[1] Ydrasse:

Flea The Magician

[4] Not Voting:

Morning Tweet, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gypyx, team rocket queen

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to launch. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-07 15:06:18).

Joint Mod ISO

[Hopkirk]

infinity/isis played that game too actually they should know the answer to this.

Hopkirk feels pretty different from Matrix Decipher to me. In Matrix Decipher it felt like Hopkirk was operating with the same barometer for how the game was going as I was and in this game there seems like there's mismatched assessment of how dire things are. Even if we miselim today and even if ontop of that everyone's reads are bad and are stuck in bad ruts, the game is likely to have some kind of twist something like Menagerie did that will kick lots of life and reassess into it. Other slots have a vibe that feels similar to mine of like "lol we have no reads I should probably be ashamed but I'm voting the mod tbh" whereas Hopkirk has this tone of "we haven't solved the game already we are already doomed unless we swiftly foil the gunpowder treason of 1605" that's foreign to the game but fits particularly well with the 11v2 idea Infinity mentioned.

The "we haven't solved it" part isn't the way the AtE was presented, it was the part where he backloaded all his interest in solving for after everyone settled on a consensus he wasn't happy with.

It feels off.

I might not be able to fully communicate this read due to it having gutparts to it I guess and that's ok I guess. I really feels like the least wrong lim to me though

At what point do I ever say 'I'm annoyed the game isn't solved'. I was annoyed at nothing happening for three days after one of the worst mafia games I've ever played just finished (hint, it was literally impossible to get anyone to do anything prior to like an hour before deadline and we lost hard despite it being an easy win if the town had literally bothered to exist instead of stall the entire day phase). that game triggered me hard and any vibes that this is getting like that physically hurt. I spent the whole game trying to vote off two/three players and, despite being setup-confirmed then later cop-confirmed, still couldn't get anyone to actually do anything meaningful.

VOTE: hopkirk w/e I’m just gonna sheep isis

why is Isis a strong enough TR for you to sheep?

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk. The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him,

identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone

and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

wait what the fuck
how has nobody commented that this is an objectively ridiculous misrep? i made it pretty clear i had Gloria/Flea/Infinity locktown to the extent i wasn't rereading them and Ydrasse as locktown too post reread.

you're seriously saying someone who says 'i don't have any scumreads, i townread everyone' is less likely to change than someone who builds a locktown block then votes outside it? 'cause that's how i play ever game and I very clearly have a locktown block because i said who's in it several times yesterday

[Hopkirk]

I'll do Skitter30 or Gypyx.

Gypyx not posting anything for like... a week is exactly what scum-Gypyx does because why would he rock the boat if he's getting zero pressure for lurking? Pooky might be right that this makes it more likely we're looking at TvT Hop/Skitter30 but I don't really have the time to iso Skitter30 again pre-deadline.

[Hopkirk]

Ok so i'm here, sorry for the extreme lack of content, I just can't manage to find the time to put in this game, sorry everyone

Nah it's fine lol, hi pooky

I'm tired, it's 3 a.m

I'm also kind curious about what is weird about the game for Ydrasse, like, i've skimmed and everything seems normal to me

VOTE: Hectic

Oh god i promised myself to look at this game and now it's midnight

Please pressure me to post tommorow if i still manage to procrastinate

ok yes EoD panick time

Worst part is i'm busy as fuck today, i'll try to make some shotgun reads to start

I've kinda avoided this game tbf :/

Like, first i was very occuupied by real life, then the more time passed, the harder it was for to catchup and it's just a neverending cycle, really sorry that i'm just a blank slot in this game

how has he had 0 pressure for posting exclusively prodges since the last vote

[Hopkirk]

TGP's readslist makes no sense and what I remember of their posting doesn't make much sense, and on balance I lean towards it being a scummy thing I don't understand instead of a townie thing I don't understand. Apparently Dunnstral and skitter were my comrades in terms of voting their so when I don't have my fingers wrapped around it composition might be something to think about.
Jessie mostly hasn't towntold yet and has touched on a lot of topics where I'd expect her to have towntold. I think Infinity is the one with the sig where where posting long enough without towntelling is a scumtell. I'd sooner vote there than revote TGP at this point I think.
Dunnstral is mildly scummy but I've reached a point where I kind of treat him unfairly [well] in my games if he's not a 13/10 on lurking and scummy potshotting because he sometimes turns on midgame and has really good reads, and lots of times when you elim him for seeming scummy he's actually town, he just has that playstyle. I'm not gonna expect others to hold to that though.
Gypyx seems scummy for the way he was scrabbling with setup spec stuff it's a bit cognitive load scummy to count through the wifom of claiming hidden information so slowly. I don't have a lot from him yet though.

I'm starting to wonder if I approach games in a way that sets up perverse incentives on being active and sharing yourself oof.

Hopefully by the time phases reach their end point, at least, I don't

I finished catching up and I agree with TGP's defense of Gypyx not making enough sense, in a scummy way. I like Jessie's version a lot better.

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk. The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

I can definitely see Gypyx/Isis pairing here actually

the read progression from Isis goes from scummy for reasons > town because arbitrarily determined model of 'he wouldn't do this'.

the thought process of 'he wouldn't do what he did again when he was scum before' is ... really really bad because Isis definitely has an understanding in general that some people can find scum hard to play - especially when they haven't played scum much (which Gyp hasn't because Isis is referencing a recent game as their only scumgame I think).

the lack of pressure from Isis on the slot, or even caring it exists or really considering when she does POE is really off

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Gypyx

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i will be awake before deadline

leaning gypx over hopk

will sheep jessie shamelessly at this point

[Infinity 324]

See 2324 for my isis TR

I may change my vote when I wake up

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx is online at the moment.
Gypyx essentially wasn't voting last time at deadline either (Gloria vanity wagon from RVS while there were two competing wagons they didn't weigh in on).

I'm not happy letting someone get through 14 days without posting or even voting when

they're new enough to playing scum that that's a very credible model of how scum them would approach a game where nobody cares about them not talking and when talking could draw that attention

[Hopkirk]

Isis made a lot of sense early game until I reread and realized I really liked the tone but there was essentially no content in the first half of her iso. Still liked that, until terrible misreps from yesterday.

[Hopkirk]

'essentially no' is quite an overstatement, but less than I thought is what I mean there.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok here

VOTE: gypyx

open to changing to dunnstral or sheeping a better plan if something better comes up.

[Hopkirk]

What do you mean by 'conviction' Infinity? more tangibly

[team rocket queen]

the thought process of 'he wouldn't do what he did again when he was scum before' is ... really really bad because Isis definitely has an understanding in general that some people can find scum hard to play - especially when they haven't played scum much (which Gyp hasn't because Isis is referencing a recent game as their only scumgame I think).

i think isis was saying 'why wouldn't gypyx do what worked in the mystery box game instead of what didn't work' if he were scum

which still idk about the validity of that but i don't think she was saying he wouldn't lurk because he lurked previously

[Hopkirk]

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk.

The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time

. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

infinity/isis played that game too actually they should know the answer to this.

Hopkirk feels pretty different from Matrix Decipher to me. In Matrix Decipher it felt like Hopkirk was operating with the same barometer for how the game was going as I was and in this game there seems like there's mismatched assessment of how dire things are. Even if we miselim today and even if ontop of that everyone's reads are bad and are stuck in bad ruts, the game is likely to have some kind of twist something like Menagerie did that will kick lots of life and reassess into it.

Other slots have a vibe that feels similar to mine of like "lol we have no reads

I should probably be ashamed but I'm voting the mod tbh" whereas Hopkirk has this tone of "we haven't solved the game already we are already doomed unless we swiftly foil the gunpowder treason of 1605" that's foreign to the game but fits particularly well with the 11v2 idea Infinity mentioned.

this strikes me as such a weird dissonance in Isis' perspective

[Hopkirk]

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk.

The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time

. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

infinity/isis played that game too actually they should know the answer to this.

Hopkirk feels pretty different from Matrix Decipher to me. In Matrix Decipher it felt like Hopkirk was operating with the same barometer for how the game was going as I was and in this game there seems like there's mismatched assessment of how dire things are. Even if we miselim today and even if ontop of that everyone's reads are bad and are stuck in bad ruts, the game is likely to have some kind of twist something like Menagerie did that will kick lots of life and reassess into it.

Other slots have a vibe that feels similar to mine of like "lol we have no reads

I should probably be ashamed but I'm voting the mod tbh" whereas Hopkirk has this tone of "we haven't solved the game already we are already doomed unless we swiftly foil the gunpowder treason of 1605" that's foreign to the game but fits particularly well with the 11v2 idea Infinity mentioned.

this strikes me as such a weird dissonance in Isis' perspective

[Hopkirk]

the thought process of 'he wouldn't do what he did again when he was scum before' is ... really really bad because Isis definitely has an understanding in general that some people can find scum hard to play - especially when they haven't played scum much (which Gyp hasn't because Isis is referencing a recent game as their only scumgame I think).

i think isis was saying 'why wouldn't gypyx do what worked in the mystery box game instead of what didn't work' if he were scum

which still idk about the validity of that but i don't think she was saying he wouldn't lurk because he lurked previously

What I got out of it

- Gypyx as scum was lurking early game (check)
- This changed later on when it started to not work and they was getting coached

there's an assumpion here that 1.) they could do the same without coaching and 2.) that scum Gypyx doesn't start the same way he's started as scum in previous games because it didn't work well for him

there's a weird assumption that Gypyx can independently play a very good scumgame here, that'd be better for him than the lurking strat when nobody's called him out (votewise) for lurking and its arguably a very intimidating game based on early townblocks. Unless we assume Gypyx is absolutely flawless, 2 definitely doesn't hold up and I'd say acting the same is more indicative of scum struggling in the same way as before rather than assuming he wouldn't do X because he's seen there's a better strat... while missing the link between knowing Z is better than X and actually performing Z.

there's obviously the associated assumption that town Gypyx would lurk like this and have no reads, do you have any backup for that Isis?

[team rocket queen]

1.) they could do the same without coaching

there's a weird assumption that Gypyx can independently play a very good scumgame here,

i mean, i'm town here so it is hard for me to imagine a three person scumteam in this game without someone quite good as mafia able to coach gypyx, so i don't think it would have to be independently

for there not to be a very competent mafia able to coach gypyx on the team it'd almost have to be me + gypyx + x

it's like, gypyx's early game felt +town to me. but the way he is avoiding the game does not feel like the way town or mafia avoid a game to me? like it still feels like he is avoiding the game intentionally, and then only posting to remind us that he is avoiding the game intentionally.

what i am most worried about with regards to voting gypyx is this ^

why would mafia keep coming to the thread and saying things like, 'okay catchup time' or 'some shotgun reads to start' and just not doing so

like once, sure, the promise of future content thing is probably iffy for determining alignment but mafia do it sometimes, yes,

but why would scum!gypyx keep doing it

[Hopkirk]

Scum!gypyx keeping doing it would be because it kept working. He got no pressure until like yesterday.

there's a decent chance of a scumflip and a policy vote all in one