BooneyToonz XIV: A Little Boonie Told Me [END]

[Aristophanes]

It is 1 am.

I strongly advise we just wait for sam and everybody else to claim before anything else.

Sam is Bef's excuse, so it's best if she comes in here and confirms she didn't transport me.
I doubt she did.

No.

I am not going to condone a massclaim when we have a soft-guilty and it's the guiltied party calling for it.

If we massclaim it is done tomorrow, not today.

[Ydrasse]

i’m mad because i’m at work and opened this to check and saw that fucking meme and started laughing again

[TheGoldenParadox]

oh i'm vt if i haven't alr claimed

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

HUB, what's your intel on Ydrasse? Are you still VT, or did you realise something overnight?

Let's get this massclaim rolling.

If I did send something last night, it was not flavored as fruit. I believe the only player claiming fruit flavor is BEF right now, so it sounds like you're claiming that BEF was not commuted but rather that scum have a bus driver and swapped you and Bell?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I believe it is mechanically correct to leash Sam to BEF tonight? Anyone disagree with that?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

Thinking through this, it seems like now it's almost certain there's a scum between Bell/HBB given that scum bus drivers would have a much higher incentive to use the drive between a scum and a town rather than for the chaos of two town (barring edge cases like a scum disloyal bus driver, although we are looking at a variant scum role)

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

Bell knowing he was bus driven may also increase the likelihood that his reaction was the way it was? Thinking out loud

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

Yeah I think that's my theory

BEF real, scum bus driver real, BEF has a real loyal vend to HBB

Bell knew he couldn't perspective slip the bus driver, knew he'd been bussed, so he had a kinda phony overblown reaction to BEF's claim

so Bell is scum even with the HBB delivery being real

now the other possibility is of course that HBB is lying scum, but I think we should play toward best case scenario, which is scum Bell, town BEF+HBB

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

It is 1 am.

I strongly advise we just wait for sam and everybody else to claim before anything else.

Sam is Bef's excuse, so it's best if she comes in here and confirms she didn't transport me.
I doubt she did.

Like is this post a slip? Idk maybe not

[Ydrasse]

so you're saying that bell knew that he would be bus-driven from the night right?

i don't think that hbb has a reason to lie about getting the fruit at all unless it's like... idk, some weird gambit??? which doesn't make sense at all in my head unless they're teamed together or something

[Ydrasse]

actually, looking at the roles from the rolebook, bus driver isn't on there at all?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

It's not contraboon'd either, and as a relatively common role I can see it being the scum variant pretty easily

[Ydrasse]

i guess it says it "mostly" coincides with the normal queue roles/guidelines so bus driver could be an outlier to it?

p-edit: i've never actually seen it in a game so idk how common it is :<

[Ydrasse]

individually i think that hbb is towny, much moreso than bell, and the only thing that's pinged me at all in memory is hbb asking for the massclaim to continue and even that isn't a Big Deal in the grand scheme of things

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

so you're saying that bell knew that he would be bus-driven from the night right?

i don't think that hbb has a reason to lie about getting the fruit at all unless it's like... idk, some weird gambit??? which doesn't make sense at all in my head unless they're teamed together or something

Yes, I think Bell knew he was getting driven

Hbb's motive as scum to gambit here would be to claim a loyal fruit vend and position himself as mech town. There's a very strong mechanical incentive for hbb to bluff receiving fruit here as scum. I kinda don't think he does so because it seems wild to bluff a bus driver but I can see hbb going for it. But bluffing a fruit reception I think was part of the scum win in BTE so I would not dismiss it as a possibilty.

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

i guess it says it "mostly" coincides with the normal queue roles/guidelines so bus driver could be an outlier to it?

p-edit: i've never actually seen it in a game so idk how common it is :<

It's a very standard role in mafia games run on chat clients, not on this site exactly, but I think boon has played in a few games with bus drivers

[Ydrasse]

bell would actually fit into my Very Cool Theory of scum not having a lot of presence d1...

p-edit: i've seen it in action on epicmafia but never in like, a competitive/ranked format and just closed random games. and if bell flips scum does that make hbb more or less clear? more clear, right?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I think bell flipping scum makes HBB more likely to be clear personally but there's room for discussion there. There's also a scenario where there's no scum bus driver, the fruit on Bell failed, and HBB as scum tries to save scum bell by implying scum bus driver. Certainly no one is hard mech town tomorrow off a misdirected loyal fruit vend. but I would qualitatively say I think HBB is more town after a bell scum flip based on my current conjecture

[Ydrasse]

(nods and takes notes like i understand entirely the mechanics of what might've happened) (i am still mildly confused about the gambit thing but i don't think it's something i Have to understand?)

[samantha97]

Loyal Fruit Vendor

cursory question: what was the thought process behind targeting bell?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

(nods and takes notes like i understand entirely the mechanics of what might've happened) (i am still mildly confused about the gambit thing but i don't think it's something i Have to understand?)

the loyal fruit vendor is the strongest town investigative role claimed to date. Gambiting fruit receptions when there's a missing fruit reception has two potential scum benefits:
1) it can make the results of that investigative role less certain (meaning a guilty on bell would be less certain)
2) it can misdirect results, makings someone guilty appear to be innocent (as HBB could be doing for himself)

so gambiting fruit vendor receptions can very easily be a game winning strategy for scum, hence why HBB's claim of reception does need scrutiny.

Thinking about it more, there are some concerns here. Namely this now requires two different behaviors for a scum variant:
-the scum have a CONFIRMED ability to kill commuting players (shoshin)
-scum have a SUSPECTED ability to bus drive players (HBB's claim of fruit reception)

that being the case, HBB's claim seems much weaker compared to the death of Shoshin, and given *there can only be one variant scum role* (since the town variant of pelican already flipped) this does create the risk that HBB is just lying scum in this scenario

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

unless shoshin just didn't commute last night, in which case, herpaderp

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I guess scum strongman doesn't HAVE to be variant? Technically that could just be a classical strongman abilty... hmmm

sorry I should stop thinking in thread

[Ydrasse]

i don't think you should? that explanation was helpful (also loyal fruit vendor sounds like a bitch of a role to deal with if you're not informed of it LMAO)

[Ydrasse]

thinking thinking