Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Trendall]

If you think that the guy is mafia then there's no reason you should be so bothered by the other guy voting for him as well. If you are then it begs the question of why you are voting for him.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 1.6

[4] Rockhopper (clidd, ben dover123, Chumbo, LavarManos)
[2] ben dover123 (Rockhopper, Lunar Martian)
[2] clidd (Trendall, Battle Mage)

[1] Not Voting (LoneMarkhor)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to eliminate.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-12 08:30:00)

[ben dover123]

If you think that the guy is mafia then there's no reason you should be so bothered by the other guy voting for him as well. If you are then it begs the question of why you are voting for him.

That is the problem at hand. I want Rock to explain himself, but I don't want scum getting away with an easy miselim. Rock is currently at E-1 with intent to hammer, and we have to get away from this.

Since Lavar literally just left and I have to go now, UNVOTE: Rockhopper for extra precaution.

I'm bothered because as much as I think Rock's actions ping scum I don't think it is a good idea to put him at E-1, with intent to hammer where mafia can get away with an easy miselim. We cannot let that happen, especially with a couple of days left before deadline and BM hasn't even fully explained his take on clidd yet.

[clidd]

I'm on mobile, but I'll take a look.

[clidd]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rock is mafia trolling us.

[clidd]

And I'm not feeling Town!BM here. Most of the observations and, theoretically, reasons to suspect me seem forced in the sense of his interpretation of "what he thinks I did" and "what I really did".

He may be sharing the same bias that Ben had from my scumgame or he is, in fact, scum.

[ben dover123]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rock is mafia trolling us.

Alright, stop. I'm still trying to figure out where this "Rockhopper is mafia" comes from. I'm scared to think that it may be clidd trying to push a miselim

It's a weird interaction, I'm going to admit. Rock is defending clidd and TR'ing him (out of gut), but clidd thinks Rock is scum. This could be clidd trying to get a buss off as Rock's behavior towards clidd looks like subtle defending, but I'm not 100% sure about it.

Pedit: What bias. Like actually I want a solid explanation. I hate that you are just chucking my meta research out of the window with "bias". It just doesn't work like that, and I'd expect better from you.

[clidd]

A basic example is post 29, which illustrated a subtle comment about the effects that my distance from the forum had impacted on my English.

Classifying that as "self-conscious and defensive" is the culmination of interpretive distortion.

[clidd]

Ben, every action and post I'm doing you and BM see Scum!me planning something/acting in a malicious way.

If that's not bias, idk what it is.

[ben dover123]

Ben, every action and post I'm doing you and BM see Scum!me planning something/acting in a malicious way.

If that's not bias, idk what it is.

Soooooooo...my whole ISO is all bias? Let's pull it up then.

[Trendall]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rock is mafia trolling us.

It's a possibility, but I don't think that's what's going on there, I think he's a town trolling ben.

[clidd]

Yes, your entire reasoning and hours/days of thinking that I'm scum/who's my partner were wasted time.

[clidd]

But you don't know that yet, because I'm letting you think on your own.

[Trendall]

Cute

[clidd]

Well, sorry.

[ben dover123]

clidd, you're joking. I didn't spend a whole day completing your research for nothing. Take a look at your ISO that I completed, and I will show you how barely any of this is biased.

Comments in bold:

Spoiler: clidd ISO

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

Possible contradiction alert! Possible contradiction alert!
If you believe that there isn't a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is mafia, then why vote for Trendall in the first place? I am confusion.

Slightly scummy

This isn't bias of malicious mindset, you contradicted yourself here and it just seems odd.

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

Now that I have examined Trendall's meta, this is a really bad reason. Trendall starts basically all of his games with "Hello" or "Hello everyone" as town, I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this vote/what your goals were.
[/b]This also isn't bias of malicious mindset, this is just you making a bad vote for a bad reason[/b]

Hum, I feel like my sentences are not so fluent. I need to readjust to the language.

I'll take a break, waiting for others (trendal mainly) to post.

Ok. Well, I think I can understand most of your reasons, however I'm not ready to retract my vote and my suspicious yet.

I still think you're towny in your posts.

Btw, I like your style, Ben.

You fit the leader type.

Actually no, I'm open to talk.

Ah, I'll take a break.

Scums are hiding and we'll find them.

That's all, I think.

He... He-llo..

Pl.. Players.. Afk..

Repl.. Replace..

Ben... Tren... Town..

So, I don't think I want to vote Ben/Trendall today.

Light fluff

Scummy

This is your meta coming into play. Nothing biased here.

No, people here usually wait until everyone is ready to end the day.

What can happen is if the person who is E-1 (1 vote before elimination/hammer) is mafia, he can selfhammer to deny time for town to speak.

Doesn't combine his posts and ends up double posting?

Null

Scums are hiding and we'll find them.

I wouldn't be so sure. Most of the time there is one scum in the afk slots and one in the active slots. I feel like you are trying to guide me away from where scum actually is, but this is WIFOM. What I don't like about this post is that clidd doesn't explain some of his methods to find scum, and he doesn't apply anything more than basic tells to attack someone.

Null/Slightly scummy

Again, this ties into clidd meta. clidd loves using complex scumtells to make his reads, and yet he doesn't really give me any complex tools to work with and also he doesn't use complex scumtells to make his reads.

To clarify the topic 'SE', idk about everyone, but I don't think SEs take games in the newbie queue very seriously here, in the sense that we are not going to play the best we can. We are often looking for a more chill game, trying to test new styles/approaches, or we are trying to adapt to the site after a long period away (my case).

Of course, if players have any questions about the game, setup or terms used, I believe that no SE will refuse to help, but keep in mind that each one needs to absorb things on their own and find the playstyle that works better for them.

And like the name says, "newbie queue", is primarily for players who are joining the site and still in the process of learning the game.

SE players are just additions to clarify any doubts that may arise (and perhaps share some knowledge, but this varies from player to player).

There is also the case in which you have played a few matches and still do not feel comfortable playing in more competitive queues, in this case, the forum allows you to continue playing in the newbie queue with newbie players, but under the title of 'SE'.

Both of these posts achieve the same point, I'm not sure why you needed to double post here.

Null

No bias here. Just a issue of clogging the thread with unnecessary posts. The town clidd I know likes to keep everything concise and accurate.

No saying that Trendal is lock-town, of course, but I'm leaning town on him today.

This post was literally worthless. It was a double post that rephrased his opinion about Trendall when it was already clear what he thought of Trendall in his previous post.

No bias here. Just a issue of clogging the thread with unnecessary posts. The town clidd I know likes to keep everything concise and accurate.

The ''hello'' tell and the observation of "first mafia" were both attempts to provoke a reaction, not necessarily being a serious opinion about him.

I don't understand how you associated this with malicious behavior.

So....are you going to address that you basically contradicted yourself or what? The "hello" tell that you made is absolute garbage considering Trendall's meta, and "first mafia" is no more than labeling scum. I don't get how such weak attacks will provoke reasoning from Trendall. Although, it's not malicious behavior, I will admit.

Null

No bias here. Just me pointing out your weak attacks.

People say when I'm town I usually obvtown, but this isn't a button that I can just turn on.

So idk if I'll eventually be obvtown to your perspective, although I already have the firm feeling that you are town.

This post isn't right with the new knowledge that clidd can manually post wallposts and detailed reads whenever he likes, aka obvious town. Also, there is a tell for "I will eventually become town", which is usually a phrase used by scum to compromise their slightly scummy behavior thus far.

Scummy

No bias that I can spot here. I'm just pointing out that clidd has the ability to try this game, and the scumtell "I will eventually become town" is not necessarily malicious behavior, but rather an awkward sentence that is rarely used by town and majority of the time used by scum.
Other than these specific posts, he has been asking everyone questions, but that is NAI considering that scum clidd also does this. I haven't seen any real deep analysis or contribution, which I would expect from clidd here.

No bias here/

Conclusion: From a meta perspective, this looks like scum clidd. Most of his posts here are similar to his scum behavior, and it looks like his general direction is going towards the scummy side.

No bias I can spot here.

VOTE: clidd

So, uhhhh, you wanna point out where said bias is in this ISO? I made my comments if you want to read what I think about my own observations and if they are biased or not for only considering the case where you have malicious intent. tl;dr I don't see any bias, maybe I'm biased, but I'm pretty sure anyone else can agree that this ISO is not biased over malicious intent only coming from clidd.

[clidd]

But, maybe there is still time to fix that.

It's my specialty to heal wounds, anyways.

[clidd]

Your pov on my ISO is biased because of your analysis of my meta.

It's clear as the sun.

[ben dover123]

But, maybe there is still time to fix that.

It's my specialty to heal wounds, anyways.

Don't gimme this "Oh, we can fix all of this over time/Oh, I will become more towny over time" bullcrap. I don't like how you believe that you will become/do ____ over time. It's just not gonna happen. For example, you said "maybe I'll become obvtown soon in your perspective" Well, it hasn't happened. And it probably never will.

Pedit: Trendall, back me up here. I'm sure my ISO has fair points that are not biased, please and thank you.

[clidd]

It's more like:

Meta-> Correct
ISO-> Wrong/biased

Your comments on my posts started from the point "I know that clidd is scum" to explain the purpose of each post according to the scum!clidd scenario.

[LavarManos]

I think it is a little biased too.

[Trendall]

I just think it's hilarious that somebody presented a post analysing their own posts to show that they're not biased.

[ben dover123]

It's more like:

Meta-> Correct
ISO-> Wrong/biased

Your comments on my posts started from the point "I know that clidd is scum" to explain the purpose of each post according to the scum!clidd scenario.

Wha...I'm making points that point towards a scum clidd scenario, not the other way around. God, I'm going to get outshouted here if no one helps and tells me that my ISO isn't biased. Someone please confirm that this isn't all bias.

Pedit: ...

Double Pedit: ...You know what, forget it. I'm done. If no one is going to confirm that not all the points are biased, then I'm gone. Goodnight.

[Trendall]

If no one is going to confirm that not all the points are biased

Maybe you're just wrong about it

[clidd]

Ben, do you realize that I already gave you the answer ?