Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[nopointinactingup]

I believed it then but no one else sees it so idk, they can’t all be scum

Real Scum slips in my experience are rare. Like obvious mistakes that truly reveal that you’re Scum just don’t happen all that often. Scum tend to be careful. If anything, what appear to be mistakes made by Scum can be simply differences in style or communication. We just came out of a game where a Town player was thought of being Scum for referring to themselves in the third person (and being coached into a post).

I think the evidence for a slip needs to be overwhelming, or the slip really obvious. Otherwise, it’s just not that.

Yeah that makes sense. I can kinda see now how that could be read as just stating a town-read.

unwnd is town, at least that's what I'm willing to bet on for now since with the spontaneous way he is speaking he will get found out soon if he was scum.

Johnny is looking worse so I'm going to have to take back that alliance request. I find the way johnny plays as scum is lurking and opportunism and I got a sense of it in his recent posts.

shelly is looking like she's trying to solve, but the way that she's doing it seems odd and commentary-ish. also, shelly I would like you to explain your Andres read.

I like fuzzy and vibing with a lot of what he's saying

Why are so happy to defend unwnd here? It can’t be that speaking in a spontaneous way is all you have to hang your hat on.

I've had a town-vibe on unwnd since his beginning posts and he sounds like he's engaged in figuring out the game. It's really hard to top-post as scum without posting fluff imo.

[nopointinactingup]

@Andres, what do you think of my point against FL?

[nopointinactingup]

It's MU speak, another site where mafia is played. I've done a few treks to other mafia sites and have quite the collection of knowledge. Wolf is basically Scum to them, as Village is Townie. When you're openwolfing you're doing things that are blatantly scum but you don't care because nobody will punish you for it or you've been caught

Who has FL played with in this thread? A premise for this strategy is that he needed to have played with most or all players on the thread. If he was openwolfing against a thread with people who don't know him then they are likely to lynch him anyway.

[geraintm]

Also, Gera saying we wasted time when absolutely nobody was here is scummy.

I wish we had an active enough game where that was wasting time.

+1

It looks like trying to find an excuse to jump on your wagon if you ask me.

You've not played with me before? I will not be jumping onto any wagons.
And as people are still discussing them, I stand by my statement that a bunch of days have been wasted.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor if you don’t intend to really play this game, then you shouldn’t be surprised that people want to see you out of it. However, I would prefer if you took some days off or something, and came back with some energy to try and solve this game. You are potentially giving cover for Scum to vote you and not face any consequences. And if you’re Scum, then sure keep acting this way and you will certainly be the target of an execution.

Day 1. I also have second most posts in this game, so I am playing this game, I’m just not gonna try hard it right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, wait. I have the most posts

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunn’s vote is the scummiest one on me.

Seems like he could be nervous because I called him out earlier, so wants to get rid of me while he thinks he has a chance. People started town reading me, so his vote effectively keeps momentum on me.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I’ll go here again, see what happens.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Parsley

[Titus]

Sorry. I'll try to be more productive later today.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'll be productive after titus

[Andresvmb]

@Andres, what do you think of my point against FL?

Look I’ll give you my download, and you tell me what you think.

Could Flavor’s self-vote “plan” have been disingenuous - an obvious attempt at making themselves look Scummy so that they can explain away their survival later in the game, without attracting too many votes? Yes, maybe. Flavor doesn’t seem that keen on giving out reads or establishing themselves in this game, so that’s not a positive sign. It’s also a marked departure from how they’ve played Scum the last few times we’ve faced each other though, and that in a way also makes sense (it would be easy for me or others to spot I think).

Where I’m struggling is when I try to make sense of it from a strategic perspective. Flavor seems fine under pressure as Scum, but he knows that he needs allies, or Town players that are in a position to make errors. The easiest way to get significant errors is by pocketing players, or at least have others actually think you’re Town. He doesn’t seem particularly focused on even projecting Towniness here, openly admitting to not trying hard, and inviting votes. Not the most viable Scum strategy long-term is it? The other side of it is that he’s buying time, but Flavor doesn’t like to sit on the sidelines for too long. If he continues to drag his feet for too long execute him. Otherwise, I think there’s better places to look for now.

[shellyc]

shelly is looking like she's trying to solve, but the way that she's doing it seems odd and commentary-ish. also, shelly I would like you to explain your Andres read.

in a skim of andres' scumgame, he seems to be passive

here the tone is more solvey and andres is putting in actual effort to do things which fits in with what I've seen of town!Him in the past

[Andresvmb]

Also, Gera saying we wasted time when absolutely nobody was here is scummy.

I wish we had an active enough game where that was wasting time.

+1

It looks like trying to find an excuse to jump on your wagon if you ask me.

You've not played with me before? I will not be jumping onto any wagons.
And as people are still discussing them, I stand by my statement that a bunch of days have been wasted.

Maybe you won’t jump on any wagons, but I still expect you to highlight stuff you see. You put the spotlight on two Scum players last time we played on D1 and were executed for it - I went back and checked. So don’t try and pretend that you can’t make any contributions because that’s not true.

[Andresvmb]

When you get far past enough knowing not to self vote, you reach an area where it starts to be okay again.

Noting that I only have 2 completed games with Andres, and both of them I was scum, one off site, so that’s an interesting thing to comment on my town game that I’m slightly FoSing.

Just for fun I’ll make a comment about this. You know how I can tell that you’re a better Scum player than Town? Even if we haven’t played that much together? Because having bad reads in a game does not get you executed. People expect the performance and the arrogance. But they don’t seem to be waiting around for you to guide the Town (as Town). It’s why people remember you as a dangerous Scum player above anything else.

It doesn’t mean you’re bad Town btw. I just think it’s obvious where your strengths are.

[Andresvmb]

@Johnny there’s a lot of suspicion being thrown your way. What do you make of it?

[Andresvmb]

@Hank can you actually contribute instead of saying that you will?

[Flavor Leaf]

When you get far past enough knowing not to self vote, you reach an area where it starts to be okay again.

Noting that I only have 2 completed games with Andres, and both of them I was scum, one off site, so that’s an interesting thing to comment on my town game that I’m slightly FoSing.

Just for fun I’ll make a comment about this. You know how I can tell that you’re a better Scum player than Town? Even if we haven’t played that much together? Because having bad reads in a game does not get you executed. People expect the performance and the arrogance. But they don’t seem to be waiting around for you to guide the Town (as Town). It’s why people remember you as a dangerous Scum player above anything else.

It doesn’t mean you’re bad Town btw. I just think it’s obvious where your strengths are.

Eh, people used to say "if Flavor hasn't solved the game by Day 3, he's scum."

I have purposefully dumbed my early town game down so I can make it to later in the game. Few years back, I went through a phase where I got n1 killed like every single game I was in, and I hate that.

I'm just more obnoxious when I'm town, and I go after everyone, and flip reads a lot, so people don't like it.

But I will admit, my scum game, and knowledge of what scum should and shouldn't do, has stepped up over the past couple of years, so I will concede I am a better scum player than town player.

I still think I had Top 2 maybe Top 3 town year this year, I just don't have a popular town style right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also went through multiple phases of rolling scum multiple times in a row and simultaneously, so I had more of an opportunity to show that side in the past few years.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I have 6-7 strong town performances this year, where I have like 4 or 5 strong scum performances this year.

It's all about what have you done lately, though, and my scum game is being highlighted right now because of specific games that finished recently.

Hank is a newer player, Andres. Him and I joined the game after that last newbie, so it might be a bit overwhelming, or he might be busy, which is why I'm willing to give it a little bit, especially considering everyone is having issues with what to do this game.

[Andresvmb]

I think I’m the obnoxious Town player type too - just not too abrasive. I tend to over complicate things though. And I have my moments but overall I know I have a lot of room for growth. But that’s for after game.

Talk to me about shellyc. I think solving shellyc really helps this game. Because I see her as Town, I do. A lot of early takes, and most eminently reasonable (and ones I largely agree with). However, I find myself worried about getting pocketed. What do you think?

[Andresvmb]

I think I have 6-7 strong town performances this year, where I have like 4 or 5 strong scum performances this year.

It's all about what have you done lately, though, and my scum game is being highlighted right now because of specific games that finished recently.

Hank is a newer player, Andres. Him and I joined the game after that last newbie, so it might be a bit overwhelming, or he might be busy, which is why I'm willing to give it a little bit, especially considering everyone is having issues with what to do this game.

Good to know about Hank, will keep in mind.

[Flavor Leaf]

She stated a town read on me when I was getting momentum, so she's town actually town reading me or scum trying to also pocket me.

I see both as possible scenarios, I'm happy to townblock her for now (i say townblock, but if you look at Ilicit Substances, I put 2 scum in my town block Day 1, then on Day 2, I called them both out as scum.)

[Andresvmb]

I'll be productive after titus

You do realize this is straight up Scummy right?

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually do think Dunnstral is the most likely to be scum right now

I called him out earlier, and I didn't like his response, and then he joined my wagon in what could have been a momentum swinging situation.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Why would scum say that just there? I'm curious. (I also haven't read since like page 10)