PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think trust tells require a pattern if i know the rules right?

RL christmas shopping with your daughter probably doesn't count.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

BM

you gotta let me buy you a pint next time I'm across the pond if I mis-elim you here

its been real buddy

[Battle Mage]

then in that case, yes, we obviously aint having this conversation if i'm scum here.

[Ircher]

Official Vote Count 1.15

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-12-14 16:00:00)

I'm just going to point out: we still have over four days left. I would advise not rushing to a decision yet.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thats true

we can always get shit-faced over the weekend


im so drunk now

ok guys feel free to unvote and go back to RVS or whatever

im gonna take a hard fucking think about BM

[Battle Mage]

BM

you gotta let me buy you a pint next time I'm across the pond if I mis-elim you here

its been real buddy

man, why even make that call today?

you aint gonna have a heart-to-heart like this with anybody else i don't think. if you elim me here now, i dont think you get as much from ppl in future.

it's your game though, i just give you my honest take. like your masons (except i know better)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we got all the data we needed out of the POE-4 thing

im gonna try to sober up and talk to teamMason tomm about where to go from here

BM lets get shitfaced over the weekend and have another bonding session

dont want to keep you up too late when you gots work tomm

[Battle Mage]

thats true

we can always get shit-faced over the weekend


im so drunk now

ok guys feel free to unvote and go back to RVS or whatever

im gonna take a hard fucking think about BM

good call man, im gonna get some sleep - gotta save the world again tomorrow.

take care dude, real good to chat.

and yeah if you mis-elim me at some point, i'll take that pint

[Battle Mage]

we got all the data we needed out of the POE-4 thing

im gonna try to sober up and talk to teamMason tomm about where to go from here

BM lets get shitfaced over the weekend and have another bonding session

dont want to keep you up too late when you gots work tomm

it was all worth it - they'll never believe i'm a mason now...muahahahaha

haha i'm free this weekend, so you're on. i'll finish my xmas shopping first haha

[Battle Mage]

love ya Pooks <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

love ya BM <3

this game is fking hard

[mastina]

A. Why on earth would BM-scum pretend not to be reading the game? Where's the motive?

Take your pick, any of these are options.
1: Allows you to get away with not faking content during a time you're genuinely V/LA--you don't want to put in the effort over the weekend as scum because reading is less effort than writing.
2: In the current meta, scum lurking and letting town eat itself up in TvTs is an incredibly strong scum strategy. FL is not above utilizing it as a, on a grander scale, scum strategy for winning the game, if he thinks he can successfully maintain the TvTs.
3: Allows you to create refined, stronger points when you come in and attack the areas you've had the time to observe are weakspots in the town's stances/arguments, while pretending that these arguments were made blindly.
4: Faking a stream of consciousness catchup when you're actually informed is rather easy to pull off. If you're more aware than you're pretending, then there can be towncred in taking stances that're informed from that extra reading.
5: You can write things out in advance in the scum PT, and then finish them inthread, to let your scumbuddies check the posts and let them give feedback on what you're intending to say.

Among other possible reasons.

Would it be all of these at the same time? Probably not! But this is an incomplete list of possible explanations. Suffice to say: there are some.

B. If I had actually read the game, why would I subsequently spend several hours trawling through and giving my thoughts on everything?

Ties into one of the above options. It takes far less time to read than it does to write. If you read in advance and pretend not to, then the writing takes less time and produces better content for the result. However, it does still take time. Less time than reading-while-responding, but still some time.

But you can't exactly not give thoughts at all and expect to live, can you? So you NEED to post content, even if it's on things that you read in advance.

Plus, your initial 'catchup' where you were sparse in quoting posts and mostly went 'page x, thoughts on page' looks like this exact approach, where you read in advance and didn't feel like putting in the extra effort to quote content from those pages, so you summarized them.

C. If I had read the game, why would I say something about possibly being close to E-1, when I was nowhere near?

This is fair since I did technically say "BM has read the thread or at least most of it" and it is in fact inaccurate to accuse you of having read all of the game. A more accurate stance would be "BM has read at least some of the thread when pretending he hasn't and is showing knowledge indicative that he's read more than he claims he has". Which is to say, you didn't read the whole thread, but read more than you claimed, so you wouldn't know you weren't near L-1.

2. Mastina alleges that BM lied about being on VLA to avoid posting in this game, whilst posting in other games, implying he is scum here and town elsewhere.

False. I allege that you are genuinely V/LA but your 12 non-content posts while on V/LA while making content-posts or no posts in other games, is indicative of being scum in this game who was doing more than he said he was, behind the scenes.

As the rest of your points are in relationship to a claim I never made, they are irrelevant.

Do you think, given we are now 80 pages into the game, there is anything else of merit for you to comment on?

Yes, and I continue to do so.

While the majority of my content is outlining why you are scum, my posts are not exclusively about your scumness; I have addressed reads on other slots. I should give a full indepth readslist with reasons, and it's among the things that I intend to do soon(TM).

You could give some thoughts on other players besides me - reads which don't simply lean on your false premise of me being scum.

I have reads on every player in the game and none of them rely on their read on you. Quite the opposite; reads that might be different if I were to look at their interactions with you (Noraa's bad defense of you, Creature's calling you scum), I am, explicitly,

ignoring

, in favor of my own read on them (Noraa's town anyway, Creature's a scum candidate anyway).

Or you could give some thoughts on the things I've actually posted

I have and continue to do so--

The posts you make show TMI, are weak reasons on weaker slots aside from the TMI Double Trouble push, and largely underwhelming.

[MURDERCAT]

Cool let's vote Noraa

[mastina]

Essentially your argument is:
"Battle Mage posted a few times here, but nothing substantial, during his VLA"
The biggest problem is...then what? Why does that make me any more likely to be scum?

I will requote the Fonz quote for why it makes you scum:

There is a lovely quote I want to give from a fairly obscure game that I feel does a good job of explaining why Battle Mage is scum here.

Subject: Mini 2096: I Don't Remember the Name of This Game

I Also, I was legitimately just really busy IRL which is why my posting/catch ups were limited and I maintain that was a bad reason to scumread my slot.

Nah, that was the individual scumtell I talk about above, and an excellent reason to suspect you. Scum and town tend to play differently when they have little time. Town motivated players will often try to ensure they do as much as they can with their limited time: naked votes, claims, really important questions. People who have time to whine in thread about how unfair it is when they are busy irl are usually scum. They try to use limited access as an excuse to lurk. These players also tend to continue whining postgame and claim that they'd have done the exact same thing as town, but they keep flipping scum!

Contrast: I did a sixty hour work week over six days from about three rl days into this game.

Ever since I had the pleasure of playing with Fonz in that game, I have taken this to heart, and yes, it remains true to this day, and anecdotally I've noticed I follow it myself. (Where as scum when V/LA I use it as an excuse to not be around but as town when V/LA I still try to give

something

.)

This game Battle Mage insists that his twelve posts while V/LA that gave zero content were something he'd do as town--maybe he genuinely believes that he would do that as town.

But twelve posts essentially 'whining' that he's V/LA is something that is far, far more likely to just actually come from scum.

Your twelve posts while V/LA lacking content also have zero town motivation.

There was no town motivation behind making twelve contentless posts while V/LA.

There was scum motivation behind those posts while V/LA, that I have already explained extensively.

[mastina]

I mean the reality Mastina, if you cared to consider it, is that I displayed a unique trait in each game, as I posted with different frequencies in each (including in some, as you note, not at all). It isn't as simple as "BM did a unique thing in this game whilst in other games he followed a clear post/don't post pattern" - that is factually untrue. But you're still missing the pivotal question, which is why me doing something different in 1 game, implies I'm town in all of the others and scum here.

That's not what I meant by unique trait and you arguing it is in bad faith.

You said that you've never before searched for your name before, yet you allegedly did so over the weekend while V/LA.

That is a trait unique to this game, in an entirely different way than "didn't post in a game" or "posted content in a game". Having different posting frequency is something that has happened in dozens of your past games. Having searched for your name is something you've never done before.

But even were it what I meant, the unique trait displayed in this game is one that is, inherently, a trait more likely to come from scum.

If you were totally inactive while v/la, that would be a nai trait. Neither alignment is more or less likely to do this; it's inherently null.
If you were active and producing content while v/la, that would be a town trait. (Because town being active and producing content while V/LA is a town trait.)
But by being 'active' so to speak and producing twelve contentless posts while V/LA, that trait is, uniquely, a scum trait. (Because scum being 'active' and not producing content while V/LA is a scum trait.)

[Polar Bear Express]

Cool let's vote Noraa

If Noraa moves our vote on you, it’s going right back. You aren’t properly engaging with us and I think you’re trying to rattle her by continuing to do this. Can you link some of your scumgames for me. I should probably ask BM for both a town and a scumgame so I have some clue how to read him.

[mastina]

[ I was "uncharacteristically low-profile" whilst on VLA and not posting in the majority of my games, as you have admitted yourself.

I was referring to your content on Monday in that post.

Your Monday content was incredibly lackluster, and yes--at the end of Monday, during a time you were no longer V/LA, by the time you stopped posting for that day, you were still a quieter slot that was uncharacteristically low-profile.

[mastina]

I've done probably more than anybody in the 2 days i've actually been here.

You've done a lot of defending yourself, making a TMI push on Double the Trouble that was highly convenient and self-serving as highly survivalistic, and aside from that one push, made lackluster points otherwise. Your reads on most players are weak and largely using bad reasoning and are, by and large, attacking low-hanging fruit that are easy to paint as scum.

[Polar Bear Express]

Cool let's vote Noraa

You better be scum otherwise these reads don't line up with what I expect from you.

-nronor

[mastina]

another bit of friendly advice: if you are town, your objective should be to FIND OUT WHO IS SCUM, not SET OUT TO FRAME SOMEONE AS SCUM, as per the bold above.

I feel obligated to point out that the bolded was not in fact framing someone as scum and was me pointing out that it is not evidence of him being scum, specifically doing the "find out who is scum" part by pointing out it

wasn't

something indicative of you being scum.

Only Battle Mage can take a statement which was in

defense

of him, and turn it into a comment that was malicious slander.

[Flavor Leaf]

BM real talk

your baby girl is so cute she got the biggest smile in the world

theres no way you'd use that innocent girl to get out of a bad spot if you were actually scum right?

I know Flava Flav is the devil but you still got your soul right?

BM real talk

your baby girl is so cute she got the biggest smile in the world

theres no way you'd use that innocent girl to get out of a bad spot if you were actually scum right?

I know Flava Flav is the devil but you still got your soul right?

ah man that's really sweet yeah she loves her daddy haha

and dude, i think we're teetering on the edge of trust-tell city here, but you can answer your own question.

daddy's here

[MURDERCAT]

Can you link some of your scumgames for me.

Nope don't have any. Feel free to check my wiki for the old stuff.

[mastina]

I was VLA, I had a couple mins

You had a couple of minutes while V/LA and that was enough time over two days to make twelve contentless posts, and you spent those couple of minutes on those contentless posts rather than elsewhere doing something productive or here doing something productive?

You decided that, with a couple minutes to spare, it was important to post contentless posts in here, rather than, decided that, with a couple minutes to spare, you'd do something with that time? And then, rather than leaving it at just one contentless post that was low-effort, decided it was so important that you needed to make twelve over two days?

This narrative does not flow.

but even if you were correct, you failed to make any attempt to argue why it would be alignment indicative for me to have the posting pattern I did here.

Apparently demonstrating that scum have a higher tendency to make excuses to avoid posting content when V/LA than town who will either not post at all or if posting will produce content, doesn't count as giving evidence.

Apparently showing the lack of town motivation while outlining the plethora of scum motivation, doesn't count as giving evidence.

Apparently showing how your narrative of your actions not lining up, and pointing out the inherent contradictions within that narrative, doesn't count as giving evidence.

[Netflix and Chill]

on the basis of their response to your questions, or lack thereof, I...have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

It was the towniest + I'd ever seen.

[Netflix and Chill]

I'm fine with the BM elimination if only for the Fonz quote. My other head feels better about this elimination than I do, but I think Mastina is town this game and am willing to trust her on this.

Also, BM already claimed VT and running up another slot that may or may not be a town PR seems silly. And I think stalling to use up the full deadline is apathy-inducing and runs the risk of town getting stuck with poor compromise options which are likely to land on miselimination options due to lack of scum cooperation and is also silly.