[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[BBmolla]

I approve

[T-Bone]

Let's see it in action!

[yessiree]

I approve

thanks

Let's see it in action!

roger that

[T-Bone]

Sheesh if only everyone was this obedient!

[yessiree]

I had planned to wanted to mod it already, but wasn't sure if I could just /in to mod a modified version of an already approved setup, so just making sure here

[Jingle]

Technically speaking experienced mods can try to mod any open setup in then queue afaik. With that said, Tbone would probably interfere in the case of an excessively dumb setup and it’s always a good idea to get balance advice.

Also the change looks sound to me.

[Jingle]

Your EV calc is off, btw. When you factor in the repeated role elimination bit you get that mafia should win 5/9 games. (1/3 mafia is the last pick in the first pool plus 2/3*1/3 mafia is the last pick in the second pool.) So slightly scumsided from an EV standpoint. 44% odds of a town win is still playable though.

[T-Bone]

Y'all can do whatever you want in my queue.

[yessiree]

Your EV calc is off, btw. When you factor in the repeated role elimination bit you get that mafia should win 5/9 games. (1/3 mafia is the last pick in the first pool plus 2/3*1/3 mafia is the last pick in the second pool.) So slightly scumsided from an EV standpoint. 44% odds of a town win is still playable though.

yeah you're right, EV of town win should be 44%. (I remember I had 4/9 + 1/18 = 50% but I forgot how I did the calculations and now I realize I was wrong)

in practice though, assuming the use of optimal strategy to mass claim and playing around 2 elimination pools, players that can obvtown can basically turn the first mafia elim from a 1/3 to an 1/2, so it will be interesting to see how this aspect plays out in real games

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Identity

2 Mafia

7 Town

9 Anonymous Accounts are created.

7 Town Players will receive an anonymous account each.
2 Mafia Players will receive an anonymous account each.

The mafia players in lieu of submitting a night-kill will submit an ordered list matching each "alt" to a player.
They will kill each correct match starting from #1 down to the first miss.

Inspired by NSG's "Mask of Monsters" game which I thought was very cool. :3

[Jake The Wolfie]

So... Mountainous, but much worse?

[northsidegal]

town (arguably) loses the benefit of being able to meta sort people, but they gain the benefit that scum can only nightkill people that they know the identity of rather than the strongest townies, and possibly nobody at all if everyone is good at keeping their identity hidden

if people are bad at keeping their identity hidden then probably it's much worse than mountainous for town given multiple nightkills a night, but if they're good then it becomes wildly in town's favor as essentially nightless (or only one kill)

also, and this might be a minor point, but people could potentially become harder to sort as they take efforts to play differently in order to conceal their main, thus hurting town

highly swingy, perhaps highly skewed? but arguably somewhat balanced

[Isis]

I can't play Mask of Monsters type games anymore


Anyway, I think this proposed setup is not as good as running Mask of Monsters again would be. A random subset of the playerlist take an interest in/is proficient with guessing alts, so the mechanic is more interesting if you maximize the number of players who can participate in altguessing. Instead of just scum

If you had some weird system where the townies could altguess each other to doctor the altguess nightkills maybe? Idk. I think the possibility you rand this and both the wolves are players who happen to frequent a different queue from the other 7 most of the time is a sort of risk with this design.

[Jingle]

Allowing Doc guesses just makes it Nightless with no alts.

Also, scum probably just caches confirmed alts until they can win all at once. They should get more kills per night as the game goes on and people are confirmed not to be specific players.

It's probably better balanced at 2v13, given that 2v11 mountainous is still scumsided in practice and the gimmick is inherently scumsided.

I'm assuming that the players in the game are public knowledge as opposed to a true secret alt game where players are force replaced if they alt slip, btw. Also relevant: do players flip with their alt information?

[Jingle]

Are you my Partner?

2 Goons
7 VT

Secret Alt Game (Non anonymous signups)

Game begins with no nightphases.

D1 a list of the players in the game is published. Scum is informed of the main, but not the alt, of their partner. Each day, scum may guess their partner's alt. If they are correct, they are told so. Once both scum have guessed their partner's alt or one scum is dead, they are given a PT where they may discuss the game and decide on a nightkill. At any time, a scum player may post

Enable: Night

in the scum PT. This will turn the game into a mountainous game (with daytalk).

[Blatant Scum]

1	Roleblocker	Doctor	1-shot Publishing Cop
4	Conditional Publishing Tracker	non-consecutive Loyal Fruit Vendor	Cop
6	1-shot Cupid	Redirector	1-shot Vigi

10 VTs and 3 mafia Goons, daystart. Dead players can't post to the game, but dead town players are given a special PT.
When 1 VT dies, dead town players receive one of the roles in the 1st row (randomly). If there are more dead players, they decide by plurality vote on whom the role will be used. This role is permanent (they can use it every night, unless 1-shot).
When 4 VTs die, dead town players receive one of the roles in the 2nd row. They can use their 1st and 2nd role at the same night.
When 6 VTs die, dead town players receive on of the roles in the 3rd row.

Role received is never from the same column (Doctor, Cop, 1-shot Cupid is possible, doctor, cop, Redirector isn't).
Only dead players know which roles

are

chosen. Nobody knows which roles

will

be chosen.

Roles explained:
Cupid- choose 2 players who become lovers - they receive PT and if one dies, both die.
Redirector - redirects kill on target to a random living town player.
Publishing Cop - cop, but target and result is revealed to everyone (including living players).
Conditional Publishing Tracker - tracker, but will receive a result only if your target visited anyone. If receives a result, the result is revealed to everyone.

Edit: changed the board for one I find more balanced.
Edit2: public is now publishing

[Gamma Emerald]

How do the second row roles work? Kinda hard to share results if you’re dead.

[Blatant Scum]

While using the cop ability from 2nd row, only dead players receive the result.
They can use that information to use other roles, for example - roleblock guilty result.

[Jingle]

It seems likely to me that RB/Cop/amour is the correct option. It also seems likely that the town should no lim D1.

I’ll get back to you on that.

[Blatant Scum]

The setup is chosen randomly.
Town can't influence which roles they get.

[Gamma Emerald]

can the dead communicate?

[Blatant Scum]

Yes. All town dead players share the same PT. I guess I can even allow few spectators to join that PT and vote for actions too.
However, the only way how can dead people "communicate" with living players is via actions.

[Blatant Scum]

I reflected a little bit about the setup and changed it a bit. Now a believe that all possibilities have similar EV. I struggle to prove that at least one of the possible setups has EV around 50%.

[Jingle]

Public Cop has a standard name, actually. It's called Publishing Cop.

It seems to me that if you make it to 6 VT's dead town probably just wins.

I don't see any broken combinations of roles though. The setup is too complex for simple EV calcs to be meaningful.

Edit: My issue is with last scum standing, not town longevity. My brain was being weird about numbers.

[Blatant Scum]

I am not sure you understand the setup.
Games starts with 10 VTs and 3 goons. Only dead town players (as a collective) receive roles. Either town wins or there will be a point in the game where at least 6VTs are dead.