Mini Theme 2182 - Legends of the Hidden Temple III - Over!

[Gamma Emerald]

ah yes, the "ignore scummy behavior" tactic

I'm not saying do that
I'm saying actually think about scum motivation for the play, and try to lim that over people that just look bad. You can still pressure people who look bad but just saying to lim them for that is shallow play.

[Untrod Tripod]

valuable advice thanks. until now I never understood how to play mafia.

[Untrod Tripod]

anyway, you want to yeet VP today yes?

give me a couple reasons why I should join you.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Noraa's talk about people turning on her D1 happening for town her makes sense, though iirc I've only seen it once (Haunted Village). Plus, she probably is having trouble handling things, given she's starting to have doubts about VP. So I don't want to lim her today, instead I'd like to give her a chance to live for a while.
Pooky I don't think was actually anti-town with his early challenge, and I feel like people trying to eat him alive for that kinda might be scummier for it. VP is among them, but that's getting ahead of myself. I think he's acting a little loony and my expectation of him is that behavior is town-indicative for him.
VP has been railing Pooky for the challenge being anti-town but I feel like anyone who actually tries to read the non-challenge members based on their handling of the challenge should be able to form reads just fine. I also think he used an emotional weak point of Noraa's to sic her on me and Pooky, and when called out he tried to act like we were being sexist when really it would look the same

regardless of the gender roles

, and I honestly think trying to make it out to be something it's not like that is just, scummy both in the context of the game and just as a general principle. I also dislike his allegation that I've blanket agreed with Pooky, yes I think Pooky's takes are sound but I have my own thoughts that at this point I feel I've been pretty vocal about, so that's a rather solid misrep atp. He's also among the party currently doing the "scummy = scum" fallacy with his reasons for voting Noraa recently. Like, If Noraa is being weird, you should

try to sort her

, not take it as scum behavior immediately. That goes back to Pooky's issue regarding VP's initial trust of Noraa despite getting snowed by her. The general trend of VP's play around Noraa is he's acting on things without doing the necessarey legwork to validate his opinions, which seems like scum who has the answers already.

[Noraa]

But Cakez gives a sorta lhf wrong-place-wrong-time vibe as town

Very good way to put it.

[Noraa]

I wouldn't word it the same but I agree with the vibe of how Noraa is perceiving Cakez
I won't call myself good at reading Cakez but he has patterns of behavior I'm not sure he's entirely aware of and able to control yet.

Oh how my reads change.

TR gamma.

UNVOTE:

Noraa, why does this post make you townread gamma?

Noraa can you please answer this and then explain why you’re now saying gamma is scum again?

Wasn't sure why at first. It was a gut reaction that was like this post is super townie. Went back read it and was like what did I see in it?
Thought about it for a bit.
This reminds me of Student Council where I nailed scum on page 10 or something and gamma was like yeah I agree the vibe is off.
After much thought on this, lockdown gamma.
I want pooky or vp today.

I’m planning on rereading gamma in the context of VP’s points against him but have to do work so hopefully later today

Also I reeeeeally don’t like noraa’s posts being like “this is why the other people in the pool are scummier than me” but not actually scumreading any of them

Oh I SRed all three of them at the time that I made that post.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

VP, do you really think I’d make my tactic as scum to be “let’s do exactly what people are saying scum would do?”

Lmao

Yes you're TSTBS for suuuure

[VP Baltar]

wow that's crazy

too bad he's not on the table today and the flip today will affect your read of him on later days huh

I don't understand your point here? Like I shouldn't try to scumhunt outside the lim pool? I can do both things at the same time.

I'm not particularly happy with the lim pool really. It could just be three townies playing crap games and me here. So not a lot of great choices.

Pooky made a dumb shit play and is now trying to justify that play by tunneling me to the point of being illogical.

Gamma repeats pooky and then is like "vP nOt DoInG lEgWoRk!!!!" Even as Ive done 50 times the actual scumhunting he's put into the game with half the amount of posts.

And Noraa is doing her AtE shit that is barely readable because it's nonsense based on defensiveness and she does it as both scum and town.

I need to do some scumhunting outside that pool just to keep my sanity here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh now that's just a fucking lie. HOw is what I'm doing NOT SCUMHUNTING, HUH?!?!??!?!?

[VP Baltar]

Apologies for the mood. I've had a week at work and I'm not into people being dumb right now. I'll try to keep my general annoyance out of the game. Not trying to make things toxic here.

[VP Baltar]

Oh now that's just a fucking lie. HOw is what I'm doing NOT SCUMHUNTING, HUH?!?!??!?!?

Well I'm your top suspect for dubious reasons and I know my alignment. You're not doing well here.

[Gamma Emerald]

How is "he's not legitimately sorting Noraa, just jumping to an alignment" a dubious reason? Everything before that I could see that for, though I feel like my reasons get stronger the further along into that paragraph you go.

[VP Baltar]

How is "he's not legitimately sorting Noraa, just jumping to an alignment" a dubious reason? Everything before that I could see that for, though I feel like my reasons get stronger the further along into that paragraph you go.

Because I am legit sorting Noraa. You're not making a good point. My stance around noraa is very clear in this very thread. I just said her AtE is NAI, so how am I not trying to sort her?

The problem is noraa could be scum. I do think it is legit scummy to say I'd yeet anyone in this pool.

As much as I'm annoyed at pooky, at this point I think he is the least scummy person in the pool besides me. It'd be a total PL.

Like as shitty as the situation is, you still have to try to sort. That's what I didn't like about Noraa's play. She has played with me as town before and I've been nothing but transparent with her. Now she is trying to flip the script and say I'm scummy because UT made a case on her? Like wtf? I'm scum if anyone else in the game attacks her? That's incoherent.

She could be bad town here, but why is that a reason to keep her from my perspective? Additionally, if she's just gonna auto challenge tomorrow, that's another liability.

[VP Baltar]

I don't see how you can legit look at how I've used the PT with Noraa and relayed info into the game and then say I'm not legit trying to sort her. That's just such an obviously bad take.

[notscience]

Maybe it’s a group of four town and pooky is a honorary member of scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I listed two points where you jumped to a conclusion about Noraa's play. early on, you decided to trust her, despite her fooling you in MafiaSunny (which btw, you haven't given which Pooky is reading the events of that game wrong), which I can kinda pass off, and then there's recently where you saw Noraa acting weird and seemed to jump to it being scummy, without minimal sorting at best from what I can tell. If you've been sorting her for real, it's been in the PT where I can't see it, so in that case you're making pooky's point for him about what to use the PT for.

[Untrod Tripod]

okay, so that's a big ol jumble of words. let me see if I can tease this out into discrete points. I'm gonna ignore the stuff I didn't ask for. I'm not really trying to argue against anything Gamma is saying, I'm just trying to translate this into something I have an easier time parsing.

VP has been railing Pooky for the challenge being anti-town but I feel like anyone who actually tries to read the non-challenge members based on their handling of the challenge should be able to form reads just fine.

-VP has been saying that Pooky is anti-town because an early challenge stifled discussion. However, you should be able to get behavioral tells off of the other players so this point is moot.

I also think he used an emotional weak point of Noraa's to sic her on me and Pooky, and when called out he tried to act like we were being sexist when really it would look the same

regardless of the gender roles

, and I honestly think trying to make it out to be something it's not like that is just, scummy both in the context of the game and just as a general principle.

-VP is manipulating noraa to attack Gamma and Pooky in a way that Gamma does not specify. Additionally, it was scummy to say that Pooky and Gamma were being sexist because they weren't being sexist. Saying it was sexist is an attempt at misrepresenting what they were saying for advantage in the game, also it is just a bad thing to do on a personal level.

I also dislike his allegation that I've blanket agreed with Pooky, yes I think Pooky's takes are sound but I have my own thoughts that at this point I feel I've been pretty vocal about, so that's a rather solid misrep atp.

-VP has said that Gamma has agreed with everything Pooky says. Gamma thinks Pooky has good takes, but has not agreed with everything Pooky said so this is misrep.

He's also among the party currently doing the "scummy = scum" fallacy with his reasons for voting Noraa recently. Like, If Noraa is being weird, you should

try to sort her

, not take it as scum behavior immediately.

-VP is saying "scummy = scum", which other people are doing as well.

That goes back to Pooky's issue regarding VP's initial trust of Noraa despite getting snowed by her. The general trend of VP's play around Noraa is he's acting on things without doing the necessarey legwork to validate his opinions, which seems like scum who has the answers already.

-VP seems like he's doing post-hoc justification regarding noraa. Pooky has pointed this out.

__________________

So it seems like the essence of what Gamma is saying is
a. Gamma feels that VP is misrepping him
b. Gamma feels that VP is acting inconsistently towards noraa

Does that look right?

[VP Baltar]

Maybe it’s a group of four town and pooky is a honorary member of scum

This is a legit possibility in my mind, and then it becomes a utility play. I hate it, and I don't think I'm being irrational about that.

[VP Baltar]

I listed two points where you jumped to a conclusion about Noraa's play. early on, you decided to trust her, despite her fooling you in MafiaSunny (which btw, you haven't given which Pooky is reading the events of that game wrong), which I can kinda pass off, and then there's recently where you saw Noraa acting weird and seemed to jump to it being scummy, without minimal sorting at best from what I can tell. If you've been sorting her for real, it's been in the PT where I can't see it, so in that case you're making pooky's point for him about what to use the PT for.

I'll circle back later today and address this. Need to run for a few hours.

[xRECKONERx]

boy that's a lot of pages i'm not reading

[SirCakez]

Has anyone ever seen Notsci push two PLs?
My SR there stands
Notsci/Cake/___/___

i also believe you may be right about notsci

.. don't really get the scumreads on cakes. Is noraa calling him scum because he's not scummy enough? What is this logic?

this reminds me that lilith has felt weirdly absent this game? which would normally be a bad sign for me but I'm not how much of this is IRL stuff

Can you explain what you mean by absent? Is this similar to the comment you made about me in zoey’s? (And like yes clearly I haven’t posted much and explained why)

like I feel you aren't affecting the gamestate much any way

Yeah Lilith I think cake is scum for not being scummy enough.

A shit ton of players on this site play more scummy as town and more towny as scum. Cake is one of them.

The fact that no one SRs him except me when we're already on page 28 is a huge red flag. I've basically only seen Cake die day 1 as town.

Actually Cakez dies more D1 as scum, by personal experience, but that's potentially because people just honed in on him well those games. But Cakez gives a sorta lhf wrong-place-wrong-time vibe as town, and it's not present here. Cakez does frequently get miselimmed as town, but it's later into the game than D1.

I die a lot d1 regardless of alignment lmfao

i'm not sure if Noraa is scum but if she wants to play antitown I'll help yeet her

Why are you sure lilith is town?

I didn't say that?

Noraa's push on me is so bad regardless of alignment here and everything she posts feels manufactured

[SirCakez]

baltar is just not scummy and I won't accept an elim there
no one has been able to explain to me why he is scummy

[xRECKONERx]

i mean my secret dunk scumread is vpb but there's not enough there for me to push it publicly so i haven't been

[xRECKONERx]

apparently im not getting pooky today so w/e

VOTE: noraa

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn't say that?

Noraa's push on me is so bad regardless of alignment here and everything she posts feels manufactured

what makes you sure the challenge wouldn't benefit town, then?