PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[MURDERCAT]

This was also your reasoning for scumreading BM.

I voted BM because he wouldn't give a list

[MURDERCAT]

Sorry Noraa, doesn't add up to me

To elaborate, this isn't tunnely I caught scum town Noraa, this is calculating scum Noraa.

[Solstice]

[am i not good enough (ノ﹏ヽ) ]

it deeply saddens me that Misty isn't playing

I have had a Lot of Work this week im sorry

~mist

[Solstice]

Mistyx is still underwhelming but maybe that can be explained by mafiascum's nature of making otherwise active MU users become slanky here.

its an aura i dont get it

~mist

[Solstice]

I appreciate the site starting to lag when I finally have time to post

~mist

[mastina]

@Spiffeh, why creature?

I can't answer for Spiffeh but I can answer for me:
VOTE: Creature

I still feel like this is not town-Creature, although yes I realize I need to take stock of my reads and give minor reevaluation to them--given that the game has four scum in it and I have only three players in my scumreads right now, at least one player I am townreading, by necessity,

must

be scum; I'll try to get more into it later. Plan for today is to read content and explain reads as they were, then hopefully later go into the work of reevaluating and reassessing those reads to try and form that coherent scumteam.

Until such a time though, Creature is a fine "I'd prefer to vote

someone

" vote, due to my prior suspicions there.

[Solstice]

The reason I dropped the babytalk is cuz I've been feeling super moody lately. I made some alts with more serious personalities to help me have some sort of outlet for my anger/sadness from various things. I was having one hell of a time trying to be happy this game. Im not trying to guilt trip/AtE with this but I just wanted to say that you don't understand what's happening on my side of the screen and a bubbly online personality isn't easy to keep when you're not feeling that way. I won't mention this again but I do hope you take this into account if you actually are town.

[Can confirm this is how cutesy talk works (and subsequently why that portion of the Noraa case doesn't work for me)]

Creature doesn't seem to justify any of his votes/reads which ... this may sound mean but is far less than what I expect from someone with a 2016 join date.

Ok short reads list for Ircher.

Ircher - promoted to TL
mastina - still think they are a strong TR, yesterdays entire play spewed town
Solstice - also think strong TR, yesterdays entire play also spewed town, especially the case on BM, felt extremely genuine
Pichu - demoted to TL
after these three there basically are only nulls/SRs
The most important ones imo are probably
Murder- strong SR
Double - SL
Creature- SL

Something like this?
The SRs is messy. I'm not really decided cuz I feel like a ton of people look really scummy if u sit down and think about it and there are places where Gloria didn't really agree so .. idk.

[I do really feel like Noraabear is town here. I think it's going to stay evident as we move forward as well because Noraa's scum play seems to fall apart later when she has to case the last remaining townies. i don't know how to explain this read beyond what's already been said. She's engaged and giving reads and solving etc whatever idk she's too comfortable. I also think Gloria will obvtown probably assuming theyre town]

[now I wanna know if Murder is being genuine or not because I still haven't exactly decided. Initial reaction was yes, he's genuine with this, does remind me of how Murder likes to find the scum (see D1 of death curse where he hard pushed a bunch of ppl to death). Maybe a more accurate way to describe is that he wants to "be the one who finds the scum". I got this impression from how competitive he and Pooky were in that game. Anyway, this confidence and "let me shoot my shot" attitude reminds me of that.]

[At the same time, I recall him garnering townreads for his hard confidence on a few townies being scum (and subsequent sadness when they weren't), so it's possible he's trying to emulate that again by taking a hard stance on a player who will flip town.]

He slow rolled his read of noraa to today. It's like watching someone preparing for the batting box in the deck circle. He's lining it up.
You could argue it's trejectory instead but iso him halfway at the end of the day and tell me you don't see it.

[Now here's how Bell saw it. I would kinda expect town!Murder to have a similar progression -- but I haven't read it so! let's do that. I am actually extremely interested in whether or not Murder comes off as fake]

Spoiler: MURDERCAT on Noraabear

Murder, did you draw scum? What makes you think this is obviously town!Noraa? Why does townreading Noraa rn equate to being town?

I think there is a perception that Noraa is a strong scum player, but I don't think scum Noraa would do well in this setup. I don't think Flavor took such an obvious pick, especially considering Noraa tends to not do well under pressure. Noraa is also lim bait despite her claims, and this is a pretty strong plist so there's not a lot of easy miselims, another reason FL wouldn't pick there. Also I think mastina is scummy for 25 and I expect scum to use Noraa as a place to park votes on D1. It is possible that Bell scum is being specifically coached to pocket Noraa, but I would think that scum would be a bit more subtle about it. There's also other reasons to TR Bell, like he doesn't really like playing scum.

[i am of the same opinion with regards to Noraabear being drafted. Wonder what Murder thinks of this now]

I'm pretty sure that's the extent of my Noraa knowledge.

You should skim a town iso of hers before you call her scum for blatant OMGUS

[This is really similar to one of your points against Noraa]

Noraa has trouble making up cases as scum. Look at these posts in death curse (links rather than quotes due to length):
8962
9127
9233

Now compare to the case that Noraa has on me in this game:
2513
2523

For full context, the following posts are:
2514
2524

In both cases, there is no actual analysis happening. Noraa is linking a lot of quotes, providing a superficial description of the events, and claiming that I am scum off them without actually providing any reasoning behind her claims just as she did in my last scum game with her.

[It's not exactly the same -- you are slamming her for "Terrible casing / lack of analysis", which is a bit different from blatant omgus, but still.]

[I think it is worth noting Noraa was absolutely forced into scumcasing you in Death Curse -- it was a 1v1 situation. Her resulting case was not great, likely as a result of that. here she doesn't have to do that. Additionally, 2514 and 2524 are really not the same as that Death Curse Xylo. Those two posts are meant to quote your read progression on BM and highlight why it makes you and BM have partner equity. I don't really think it's a standalone case for you being scum. Sure it's mostly quoting and summarizing, but i dont think the point was to scumcase you.]

Noraa SRing Ircher because Ircher said she is a strong town player is 10/10
And honestly I'm here for it because I think that was a weak buddy attempt.
Noraa you might actually be on this game.

[So clearly Murder wasn't planning this from the very start of the game, at least that much is evident. I see that he generally had Noraabear as townleaning]

I'm getting shivers from 1845

VOTE: Polar Bear Express

[And here we go. as a refresher:]

You know what? I think I want Double the Trouble dead today.
1) BM softed pr. theres a big possibility he'll be cleared/guiltied overnight and we'll be set and fine tomorrow without the risk of mislimmed a pr day 1. There really is no rush and if he's softing pr, we shouldn't be risking mislimming a pr. The activity argument is kind of damning but I've been criticized of not posting enough in town games before so idk how much weight I wanna put in it. I believe Mastina is passionate and believes in this read but I am not that convinced and I think theres plenty of time to sort this slot and maybe his night action can clear him, etc.
2) Double looks terrible. Each head has thrown shade and then the moment someone criticizes, the other heads like "eyyooo I don't agree with it so alls good"
3) Ircher wagon is dying and he is STILL one of my main SRs
4) Dunn is not happening today and
hold up I gtg.

[As you might recall, I had weird feelings from this post too. It felt jarring when i read it. I don't know how to describe it. To clarify now though -- this one post is not going to make me think Noraabear is scum, it's not *that* bad. It was just odd enough to make me reevaluate Noraabear for a little while.]

I don’t like the way he’s been pushing us, it feels very disingenuous to me. He sees Noraa as easy miselimbait and I feel didn’t engage me in good faith.

You haven't been here and I haven't even given my reasoning yet lol

This is what Murderkitty is trying to kill us over? When did not wanting to possibly risk miseliming a TPR get considered scummy?

nope

Well we are a hydra, so are you saying you’re townreading me?

I'm kinda nothing reading you because to be honest you haven't been around much. If you continue to solve then I'll reconsider the slot but for now I'm going of Noraa content and I have reason to believe she's scum for it. I'm still not going to get into it unless Pooky asks for it.

[What was the point of holding off?]

BM I think you basically have to go at some point this game for multiple reasons. I'd rather do Noraa first but I think you probably need to go some time and you won't get NK'd. If you are town I empathize with your position but it really seemed like you were softing to me.

why do I need to go first?
you are the third person to say you empathize with him after Norwee and I.
why do you feel the need to make sure everyone knows you were dead set that he was softing?

I think I see why Gloria didn't like you that much.

-nornor

I don't even know what to say to this lol

why can't you reply?

Can you associate anything in that post with a reason to SR me?

If it flips red, I think u've been very over-explainy and mushy around the BM wagon which makes you a very likely partner. If it flips green, ur probs still scum anyways.

Lol

[Noraabear isn't exactly responding with detailed analysis to scumread Murder, to be fair.]

Well I will be posting a Noraa case if Pooky wants it.
Though maybe it is just fine to do it, I'm not sure if there is supposed to be more with BM or not?

What do you guys think? I think his play here seems very different.

Lol did you even read the games or are you just gunna link my 4 year old isos?

[I think Norrabear are forcing a scumread on Murdercat here and I am starting to become sympathetic with murdercat interpreting this as a scumtell from them as it is reminiscent of endgame Death Curse, sure.]

Are you even reading my posts? Check the link before you embarrass yourself with this nonsence shade.

Yeah you linked a 4 year old game, said nothing about it, and linked death curse.
What in that game is like what I am doing in this game?

[It's like, yeah -- linking stuff and not saying much else is similar to what Noraa did endgame in Death Curse. She's not automatically scum for it though -- and you yourself pointed out that blatant weak OMGUS isn't a reason to scumread Noraa. Also, why would scum!Noraa feel the need to OMGUS you over town!noraa exactly? She

had

to do it in Death Curse, there was no choice. Here she could do whatever she wants and she's choosing to OMGUS but still doesnt really have to. like there's no pressure on Noraa to fake a case here -- and that's exactly why I think the case in Death Curse was so weak. Here it is

easily

driven by emotion or gut pings or whatever]

[But I see the similarity. It's not inconceivable to me that town!Murdercat sees this as scummy. Continuing]

@Pooky
Should I do the Noraa thing or should we let the solstice thing happen. Because there's like gunna be like 50 pages of ate from Noraa once I do it.
Also like, you know I'm town right? And what I'm doing? Because I want you to trust me on this Noraa case, I don't want it turned around on me.

I think Pooky feels bad. But can I offer you obv scum Noraa?

[I really am starting to lean in the direction that Murder is for real. i don't think scum!him hard pushing town!Noraa is really going to give that great of a payoff.]

Noraa we talked about this you can't just quote my iso you have to give reasons why it's scummy

[This is a direct quote from Death Curse i believe]

I am reading your posts and giving them about as much thought as I am giving FLs.
Thanks for the content though, this is exactly what I was hoping for.

This is a really shitty mindset to have but whatever.

perspective slip

[WARNING: THIS READ NEVER WORKS BUT I TRY IT ANYWAY]

[i feel like Murder is being a bit of a dick here if he's scum into town!Noraa, because this behaviour towards her isn't justified at all. like he has to actually believe he has the right to ignore her posts in order for this to not be a dick move in his eyes. BUt this read doesnt fucking work like i would think it would so whatever. Okay it works sometimes but not enough for me to be satisfied with it.]

[It's like -- he says something mean if Noraa is town, but he is so sure that she isn't, that he then proceeds to call her post where obviously her feelings are a bit hurt by it a "perspective slip". like lol]

it's not tho. It never is.

Are you TRing Noraa? Have you read 1845?

[I see that 1845 still produces a great visceral reaction deep in murdercat's gut (presumably)]

Every time
you talk to Noraa
without giving a read on her
I get closer to voting you

[Reminds me of Murder getting overconfident he has the solve D1 in Death Curse. Eerily so. is it more likely he is aware of that play and tries to emulate it, or that he is simply just playing similarly? probably the latter]

Nah I'm gunna go for Noraa still

[I mean.. he did what he said he was gonna do.]

He slow rolled his read of noraa to today. It's like watching someone preparing for the batting box in the deck circle. He's lining it up.
You could argue it's trejectory instead but iso him halfway at the end of the day and tell me you don't see it.

[Bell, you kinda describe it like he was subtle about it, or maybe I misunderstood. But Murdercat basically was yelling Noraabear is scum for the entire second half of D1, which i don't necessarily find scummy I guess. I don't interpret it as scum trying to be consistent because I feel like it'd look the same as either alignment, at the very least? this is like what i'd expect him to do either way.]

[Made it. there are a few reasons I don't think Murder is being disingenuous here..]

[A.) Shared initial bad feelings towards 1845]
[B.) Noraabear's response to his push is mostly weak OMGUS to be fair, and some parts do resemble Noraa's endgame play in Death Curse. I do

not

interpret this as scummy for her, however]
[C.) For better or for worse, the overconfidence in Noraabear being scum is just what I observed from Murdercat in Death Curse. Like he was pretty much basing his opinion on BM off of Noraa.]
[D.) I shouldn't believe in this stuff but I feel like he was being too mean to Noraa if he doesn't actually believe they're hard scum.]
[and most important E.) With regards to Bell's point that he's been lining up the Noraa push. Yes, he set the precedent for today -- it was clear this is what he was going to do. However, I don't see how that is necessarily scummy. How do you differentiate this from a townie having a strong vanity scumread D1 -> casing them overnight -> come out swinging D2? There was no subtlety to this behaviour from Murdercat, as well, like he said he was gonna do this and he did it. If Bell's point is that Murdercat kinda strategically laid back on casing Noraa until now, then I guess that is something i'm curious about. I'm not really sure what the point of holding off on saying why he thought Noraabear is scummy was, and I can see why Bell would interpret this as scummy. I see that Murdercat says it was because he wanted to let Pooky do his thing first.]

[so that's where I'm at. I ended up sticking with my initial reaction, but I am much more solid on Noraabear!town now, and I do feel that this is a real case from Murder, although I don't give that the same degree of certainty I give the Noraa read.]

[I would very much like to hear more about

Bell

's interpretation of Murder's Noraabear progression if possible as we have reached opposite conclusions. It is possible I misunderstood what you meant by "slowrolling" the read.]

[I also have a question for

Murdercat

: How does giving your reasoning for Noraabear being scum on D1 impede Pooky's ability to work? (like how you held off in 2069)]

~Morning

[mastina]

For god's sake man, the BM mislynch could've been pretty preventable had I had the time to prevent it.

VOTE: Battle Mage

Then probably enough time to test some wagons:
VOTE: Battle Mage

Suffice to say: trying to take the high ground after being on the miselimination wagon and having shown no hesitation nor any form of doubt prior to the death and yet insisting it was avoidable after is...

...A rather dubious claim, at best.

[mastina]

In general it's pretty clear scum are outlouding town and getting to dictate a bunch of mishits for town to hit while they surf under a constant circlejerk created by them.

This is also pretty transparently not the case--the vast majority of the loud town players are either obviously town or have already flipped town. It's a rats-ass-backwards take: the scum are, pretty obviously, letting the town be at each others' throats, a trait made easier by lurking and letting TvT fights take place.

[mastina]

imagine getting a doctor pm and then lol-hammering b4 the stumps says ok so you end up getting shot in the face at night by the vig and you dont even prevent the obvious nightkill. big lulz

I imagine NK15 will have a defense for his actions in the dead thread and insist it wasn't as egregious as we are presenting it to be in the postgame.

But uh.

It actually IS that egregiously terrible from him and yes. There is in fact: no excuse for it.

The day was not ready to end yet. There were still fairly important things to discuss. Eliminating Battle Mage isn't inherently something I can blame him for. But while I was a proponent for the Battle Mage elimination, I was not ready for the day to end, not even in said BM elimination. Almost nobody was; while the elimination for the day may have been decided as definitively being Battle Mage, there were still things to talk about beyond eliminating him. And given that Flavor Leaf JUST won a scumgame in large part due to encouraging his scumbuddy to lolhammer a town player on D1 (and they did precisely that)...what did NK15

think

was going to happen? He literally did a thing that FL instructed a scumbuddy to do in FL's most recently won scumgame.

That was not okay.

But since I'd rather not spend too much time speaking ill of the dead, best to move on.

[mastina]

I think a general flaw in your way of playing is that you see and express a lot things in black and white with an overwhelming degree of confidence. I feel your reads accuracy as well as your credibility would increase greatly if you took the time to consider the null and alternative hypotheses that do not align with your own alternative hypothesis, and weigh each of them carefully by their likelihood.

Actually I don't see things in black/white and I do consider alternative hypotheses and I do weigh each of them carefully by their likelihood.

People get the impression that I don't play with this mindset, but I literally wrote articles that explain the method I use: I balance the possibility/plausibility/probability of actions and their motivations; I consider which action is the most likely to be the case; when analyzing what a player has done, I assess the risks/rewards of them making this action as both alignments; I even try to differentiate between someone's narrative being complicated by their alignment and someone's actions being complicated by their alignment.

I simplify the image publicly, where I basically take shortcuts. I don't lay out all of the mental math I do which goes into showing the process behind me having reached my conclusions and considered other viewpoints and why I favor the one which I came up with. I put all that work in, but I do it in my head, rather than in the thread, with the thread being basically me outlining the final conclusion I came up with, skipping all of the intermediate steps where I did go through the effort of considering other possible takes, and mentally wrote the process for why they were less likely.

People think that I think in black/white terms because they only see the final product; they don't get to see the mental math where all of the grays come in most of the time. If you read those articles, I do the things in them all the time, constantly, neverendingly. In fact even right now, the cogs are spinning in my head, as I am mentally processing the strength of my reads on other players--but I'm not writing a post about it right now because I've yet to have the time to present the final product, it's still forming in my head because the thoughts there need time to solidify and be processed and form conclusions which aren't muddied grays, which at this second, they are.

(Also a notable contributor to this: I am very much, largely, a passive player. I react to content, because reacting to content helps me think of something concrete to put forward; reacting to things helps me solidify an image of an opinion beyond the grays I normally go through on my own.)

I see very little evidence that you ever stopped and asked yourself, "Could this had come from town!Battle Mage?"

Just because you don't see the evidence doesn't mean I didn't do it. As I said above--I keep it in my head. I don't air it out in-thread unless I feel that it is a well-formed, conclusive, solidified thought that has good merit to it.

In the case of Battle Mage, for instance, Morning Tweet's rather in-depth analysis of my case was something that did make me consider that my point about Battle Mage showing TMI was probably wrong, though I didn't get a chance to express this thought properly inthread because as you may note, I was rudely cut off by the thread lock due to a CERTAIN player deciding to lolhammer before we were ready to end the day.

I didn't unvote because Morning Tweet also made me think that my V/LA point was probably more valid, because, indeed, Battle Mage did in fact, constantly fail to address the point head-on. So I thought that, while one part of the case did not hold, at least one part of it

did

, and still made it fairly likely he was scum. This conclusion was, obviously, wrong, but it was an actual, thought-out, reasoned conclusion I reached after assessing both sides of the coin, town versus scum, and found the scum side stronger.

Is there actually any evidence in support of this? I don't think there is.

There is, actually, albeit admittedly anecdotal in nature. I remember dozens of games where scum players justified their unusual actions as "I've never done this before, just decided to try something new I guess", and surprise surprise, their motive for it was to avoid being caught for having done something unusual for them.

I have far far fewer memories of town having done it. I don't think it's zero examples from town, but it's very few examples from town versus dozens of examples from scum.

Which is to say: doing it is not a 100%-this-action-always-comes-from-scum scumtell.

I genuinely believe that it is, in the 60-75% range (by the metric of, "52.5% is the minimum to qualify as one), a scumtell, in the sense of, it is something scum are more likely to do, but not something which having been done is guaranteed to be scum. (As this game shows.)

An unbiased person would weigh the alternative hypotheses against one's hypothesis and at least attempt to address/acknowledge some of the counterarguments to their case. You have done no such thing towards BM, at least as far as I can tell.

I very much did address the counterarguments Battle Mage was making? And when someone made good points, I acknowledged them--not as much as I was intending to, but see again: day ended prematurely before I had the chance to.

Spoiler: Pages 90.4-96

2261 by mastina: "While the majority of my content is outlining why you are scum, my posts are not exclusively about your scumness" --> This is false. Your last 10 posts have been exactly you outlining your case again and again.

Your statement that my statement was false is in fact false; my statement was true.

The majority of my content was outlining why I believed Battle Mage was scum, including most of my posts around that time.

Saying all of my content was exclusively outlining why Battle Mage was a scumread, however, is, just as I said it then: false, because I have content aside from BM. 2738, 2733, 2713, 2684, 2193, sorta-2166, sections of 2118, half of 2098/2096, 1716, 1708, and 1705 are all examples of content that I have in that stage of the game which is not exclusively "Battle Mage is scum and here is why". Saying that most of my content was outlining my Battle Mage scumread? That is accurate and true. Saying

all

of my content was outlining my Battle Mage scumread? That is not.

[Solstice]

I talked it out with MT for a little bit and we ended up with a loose towncore of Polar/Ydrasse/mastina, with pichu/Dunn/Ircher just below

rest of the list is still mostly in progress

~mist

[mastina]

I think she has been underwhelming this game and is also a potential pick.

This is not a genuine Creature stance,

least

of all on me.

If Creature's vote on me was a passive "meh might as well" vote or a vote to engage with me, I could plausibly, plausibly buy it as town (although it'd be doubtful). But Creature genuinely saying that I'm an actual scum candidate, especially for being 'underwhelming'?

Bullshit.

He literally noted my post count--that's a high fucking post count from me, especially since I have posted almost every single day the thread has been open and posted multiple times each time I came in to post, whereas scumastina tends to go the maximum length possible without getting prodded (and sometimes even then fails, picking up prods) and puts in only the number of posts necessary, nothing more.

And Creature knows this of me.

[mastina]

Feels like she is missing some things I'm familiar seeing from her.

I'm pretty sure the last time Creature said this of me, I was town.

My memory tells me he was scum that game, but I could be wrong on that, but Creature has definitely used this

exact

line on me before--and been, very notably and very obviously, wrong about it before.

[mastina]

While I think Creature’s probably wrong on Mastina, I’m also concerned about him possibly being lhf miselimbait.

Creature literally has as one of his three scummies, Moment of Brilliance for strong townplay.

I believe he's been a nominee for Paragon on multiple years (although I don't think he won any).

Creature is not low-hanging fruit.

Even after Creature's degredation in his townplay and upgrade in his scumplay, he is still an inherently competent town player who displays an aptitude for catching scum. Even after Creature's massive degredation in townplay and his upped scumgame meaning players are more paranoid of him and more willing to vote/eliminate him...

Creature still gets nightkilled as town

quite often, because in spite of him having lost his 'obvtownness', he still poses that threat off of his skills as a scumhunter.

Those skills here are

utterly absent

.

[mastina]

Dunnstral
Toogaloo
pichu
Double The Trouble
Polar Bear Express*
Ydrasse*

Bell

Solstice
Ircher

Spiffeh



MURDERCAT

Dr Easy Bake

Creature

This was my last readslist post of D1 with the dead players removed, but as the day so RUDELY ended due to SOMEONE hammering before we were ready, I didn't get to post the

actual

final readslist, which would've moved Solstice up to the conftown tier and also been kinder to Spiffeh, producing this:

Solstice
Dunnstral
Toogaloo
pichu
Double The Trouble
Polar Bear Express*
Ydrasse*

Spiffeh
Bell

Ircher




MURDERCAT

Dr Easy Bake

Creature



This is, obviously, not possible given there's four scum and only three south of null, so yes, I do need to reevaluate. I won't be able to give a full reevaluation, but to go into the names:

Solstice remains a top townread of mine even now. I've really liked Misty's contributions here, with my only worry being how sparse they are more recently. Morning Tweet bled pure town at the end of D1, in a way I don't think scum could, and while Morning Tweet was less active early (so the heads have traded places in which is more active), Morning Tweet's presence here is plenty healthy now. I think that they are going to be my strongest townread here going into D2.

Dunnstral was a top townread of mine because I thought that all of his content radiated an aura of townness. Even if his points weren't something I agreed with, I thought that they came from a town mindset and looked town overall. This is something I probably need to revisit in D2 with too many townreads and not enough scumreads for the setup. My first thought is, this is probably still Dunnstral as town, because overall his play here is a match to what I'd expect from Dunn as town more than scum, but I should also do some meta double-checking on this front. (It'll, unfortunately, be largely secondhand meta where I'd be reading games I didn't play in, so not as reliable, but may still help me on this assessment.)

Toogaloo had an immediate presence and energy radiating town and had lots of takes that I thought came from town. Just about the only reason I'd have had to doubt his townness is that he's someone I'd usually scumread (similar to my original Dunn stance here in having seen Dunn be scumreadable in my last Dunntown game), but Toogaloo himself acknowledged that trait in a way that radiated cheeky towniness to me. This is another read that, given too many townreads, I need to reevaluate.

pichu had a town aura and incredibly town energy, with incredibly high engagement, solid reads, solid reasoning, and solid takes. I feel like nothing pichu has done has an ounce of scum to it, and I don't care who is the main behind the account, I don't think any of the players likely to be in control are

that

good as scum, not even with FL as a coach. So I think that, come D2, this read remains one of my strongest townread.

Double the Trouble has looked good from both heads with both being overwhelmingly town to me. While I lack true familiarity with Norwegian's skills as scum and Ali isn't someone who I'd be able to definitively label as town, overall, I just think that my assessment of them as town is still correct, and I don't think that it's inaccurate. So I think they remain in the townbloc, no reassessment needed, albeit below both pichu and Solstice in strength.

Polar Bear Express and Ydrasse were both trust-reads, up there due to trust in basically every player in the know about them vouching for this being them as town. So far, it seems that, by and large, those in the know insist that this is still Polar Bear Express as town, not as sure on Ydrasse tho. If the people who I feel are in the know still insist that Ydrasse is town, then Ydrasse can stay there just like Polar Bear Express would.

So, tentative starting point for D2 in a loose readslist:

Solstice
pichu
Double the Trouble
Polar Bear Express*
Ydrasse**

Dunnstral, Toogeloo, Spiffeh, Bell, Ircher (reevaluation needed, this spot probably has 1-2 scum in it)



MURDERCAT (I don't really townread MURDERCAT and with a lack of townread and with poe, is reasonable scum candidate)

Dr Easy Bake (is de facto scum)

Creature (I really don't think this is town-Creature)

Where the scumreads probably do have 2-3 scum in them, and the reevaluation slots have the other 1-2.

[Ydrasse]

mastina, i'll give you ONE MORE CHANCE to push on someone... if it flips town we will be having a stern talk...........

i was willing to accept this as creature's town play earlier bc it was my only experience with him but like. yeah.

VOTE: creature

[Ydrasse]

my engagement with this game has been shoddy and mostly based around league (i got plat 1 in tft today so like, diamond soon) but this feels right

[mastina]

Dunnstral, Toogeloo, Spiffeh, Bell, Ircher (reevaluation needed, this spot probably has 1-2 scum in it)

For the record:
I can say that the Bell of this game very much looks identical to the Bell of MBOS10, but I admit lack of familiarity with the nuances of him as a player to be able to tell if he is definitively town here.
Spiffeh I feel has been getting townier over the course of the game, but with at minimum one scum absent from my readslist, that healthy paranoia I have on him needs to be addressed because there's a rather significant risk that he is the scumteam's deepwolf. (Plus, on an unrelated note, going into the wifom-hole, if FL's claim of his first draft being the first four names on the playerlist was in any way remotely close to the truth, if Creature is scum, it lends some credence to the idea that Spiffeh could also be scum, with FL having been unable to draft all four due to the other two being picked as town, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I feel that going down this rabbit hole is a mistake so I basically am writing this off as possible, but not probable.) Overall I'd still rate him as town, but if we have three scum flipped and can't find the fourth after multiple town deaths, it's worth revisiting on him. He's certainly not a priority-sort today imo so even if it's possible he's scum, I kinda want to townbin him anyway for now, to revisit it down the road if needed.

Ircher I feel is probably town here. I admit lack of familiarity with him, and I realize that I do need to acknowledge he does have several bad takes and that effort does not equal town and that his style of posting does have a lot of information in it with the analysis comparatively lackluster, all things that make it possible he's scum, but I also feel that Ircher was not following an FL script, that Ircher's stances and refusal to play ball with Pooky came from an inherently town point of view and that the indignance behind it did radiate a type of townness I don't think Ircher, even with FL, could fake.

So in terms of the names up here with 1-2 scum in them, I'd rate their townness as:

Ircher > Spiffeh (this and above means "not interested in really sorting today") >>>>>> Bell

>

Dunnstral = Toogaloo (Bell either equal or higher than Toog/Dunn, not quite sure which).

[Double the Trouble]

Polar Bear Express*

who r u even trusting here

[mastina]

my engagement with this game has been shoddy and mostly based around league (i got plat 1 in tft today so like, diamond soon) but this feels right

Climbing in tft is pretty easy compared to League imo.

TFT is, mostly, luck-based, buuuuuut, there is some inherent skill involved in being able to craft a team comp that can persevere, and if you have a reasonable grasp on the meta, you can reliably manage to pull off higher-tier wins. Not always, but enough to overall make LP gains. Plus, you tend to win more LP from a win than you do lose LP from a loss. (It usually takes either incredible bad play or bad luck to place 8th, and usually takes a fair amount of both. Placing 7th requires a little bad play and/or a little bad luck. Placing 5th or 6th will be the majority of your LP losses, but while 5th place loss is identical to 4th place gain, being able to place 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th to off-balance 5th or 6th means it's pretty easy to climb.)

The main reason I don't climb higher in tft is honestly due to a combination of:
{Lack of motivation, the monotonous nature of playing that many games of tft, the restrictive nature of needing to run something viable and no ability to try out a comp for fun to see how it'll work, desire to do other things, a feeling that I've gotten to a place that's "good enough" already}, among others. (I reached Gold IV within the first week of tft set 4 and...haven't played ranked so much as once since then. At the time I spammed Warlords, Cultists, and Brawlers with a side of Elderwood, due to the ease of execution and flexibility of them. And also, because running a tank-heavy comp with Sunfire Cape was busted as fuck due to sunfire cape just being so strong. Even to this day I think that on a tank, it's an S-tier item since the only counterplay* to sunfire cape is to kill the unit burning you and tanks are resistant to that.)

*Tho shields tend to also work pretty well. That said, sunfire cape works pretty damn well on units with shields, too, so quite often, the main counter to sunfire cape is...a comp that itself uses a sunfire cape unit. I've had many a game where the last surviving units on both sides have a shield, and have shield v shield combat, often enhanced with sunfire and/or bramble vest.

[mastina]

Polar Bear Express*

who r u even trusting here

It feels like everyone who has played with Noraa is insisting that this is Noraa as town, most of them rather strongly so. And that even the other head has some townreads, too.

Who, with Noraa experience,

isn't

townreading Noraa at all?

I imagine there's some, but as far as I can tell, almost everyone is telling me the same thing, that this is Noraa as town. Some to locktown levels, some to town-but-dampened levels, some to town-but-needs-reassessment levels, but almost all saying town.

Am I wrong?

[Double the Trouble]

Murder I think has the most experience with noraa and is scumreading them.
I know in student council they were a brick wall that was making it really difficult to elim her.

[Double the Trouble]

I don't really have an opinion on the subject matter right now, I just think its interesting that bell was kind of chainsawing noraa.
How do oyu feel about his case on noraa?

[Double the Trouble]

While we're at it, how do you feel about noraa's posting today?