PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[MURDERCAT]

Ok well there's like ten pages or something and from the top it just looks like fluff. If there's anything important, say it here cuz this post is my bookmark where I will start my next read up.

-nornor

Ah yes very towny

[Bell]

Anyway it is in my interest to figure out who the scum and town are.
Pichu read was fairly easy. His case on me only really affirms that. Though I will always add the disclaimer that he's supposedly really good scum so like, it will bite me in the ass one day and that day I will not be surprised.

Ydrasse is harder.

I don't agree that Ircher was towning it up D1 take by Pichu, I think he looks better today. Though, his votes not great.

[pichu]

[Double the Trouble]

@doublethetrouble: Funnily enough I was just thinking about that, while thinking about something else. Did you notice his narrative around the day and his opinion of it is kind of skewed where he's saying he wants to hear new things, but isn't really?

No? Can you explain in more detail?

- Norwee

He wants to hear about new people, didn't want the circle jerk to continue, didn't seem to mind the case on Polarbear.

Are you talking about Creature?

- Norwee

[pichu]

[Mmm, well, not exactly. I thought Ydrasse getting confirm biased looks good either way. But in the case that Bell is scum, you could make the argument she knows he flips scum and therefore the confbias is actually TMI -- that's what i meant. i dont think that'd be the case though, i think Ydrasse is town]

~Morning

alright sure i get it
you know in your heart that Bell flips scum here though
i'm putting all my rep on it
pichu will never be able to show his face again if wrong

[Bell]

Dude I quoted you, are you being derpy on purpose?

[Blade Dancer]

Official Vote Count 2.4

Polar Bear Express

(2): MURDERCAT, Toogeloo

Creature

: (2) Spiffeh, mastina

mastina

(1): Creature

Bell

(5): Ircher, Double the Trouble, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse

Spiffeh

(1): Bell

Not Voting

(3): Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake, Dunnstral,
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to execute.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-12-22 18:21:00)


Random Fact: Double Trouble is actually a hydra between Titus and Mathblade, because they are twins.
[/color]

[pichu]

No seriously.
I read you as mason from the matrix game where you fake-real claimed your actual role and your interactions with Drasse is dicking about.

This is why I said you were super scummy rather sarcastically. I actually didn't think you would drop that bomb case on me at all.

hey at least you acknowledge it's a bomb case - i'm pretty smart to catch you right

[Bell]

That's disney evil. Can we draw out the clock at least. I'd like to try to save the town at some point this day phase if you could all stop pressuring me and just gentlemen's agreement to elim me later today I'd appreciate it.
(if somebody does a day action I will lose my shit*)

[Bell]

No seriously.
I read you as mason from the matrix game where you fake-real claimed your actual role and your interactions with Drasse is dicking about.

This is why I said you were super scummy rather sarcastically. I actually didn't think you would drop that bomb case on me at all.

hey at least you acknowledge it's a bomb case - i'm pretty smart to catch you right

I knew you were going to say and that's why I still am not going to ever directly engage your cases on me now or in the future.

[Double the Trouble]

What will you do exactly? Keep pushing Murdercat?

- Norwee

[Bell]

Uh, go back and examine who was pushing Unknown, BM, etc.
I couldn't read over night phase because a lot of shit happened.

[pichu]

(if somebody does a day action I will lose my shit*)

this isn't real paranoia or fear come on
when's the last time you ever saw a day action in a mafia game?

[pichu]

(dayvig exactly in a closed game)

[Solstice]

(if somebody does a day action I will lose my shit*)

this isn't real paranoia or fear come on
when's the last time you ever saw a day action in a mafia game?

[the game you just modded where Bell got dayvigged..?]

(dayvig exactly in a closed game)

[Ah. gotcha]

[Sure you aren't letting the confirm bias set in just a little?]

~Morning

[pichu]

No seriously.
I read you as mason from the matrix game where you fake-real claimed your actual role and your interactions with Drasse is dicking about.

This is why I said you were super scummy rather sarcastically. I actually didn't think you would drop that bomb case on me at all.

hey at least you acknowledge it's a bomb case - i'm pretty smart to catch you right

I knew you were going to say and that's why I still am not going to ever directly engage your cases on me now or in the future.

?
overreacting to a joke here aren't we
3168 is where i responded to your only take on my case
which you haven't cared to address
that's fine though i don't need you to convince me
i just need to convince others

[pichu]

(if somebody does a day action I will lose my shit*)

this isn't real paranoia or fear come on
when's the last time you ever saw a day action in a mafia game?

[the game you just modded where Bell got dayvigged..?]

(dayvig exactly in a closed game)

[Ah. gotcha]

[Sure you aren't letting the confirm bias set in just a little?]

~Morning

maybe maybe
but can you remember the last time a joke/surprise dayvig in a closed setup was actually real?
i can't ever remember a time

[Bell]

I'm aware.
It's your rep on the line. I expect full compensation, I don't expect a reevaluation.
I just need to convince others that you're wrong, but I'm not gunna do that by arguing with you about how wrong you are.

[pichu]

i'll send you mad loot if i'm wrong
i'll hard buddy you in our next game if i'm right
so look forward to being buddied! :>

[Ircher]

And I'm 14 pages behind again... Lovely.

2881 by Solstice: Tweet's evaluation of MURDERCAT's progression on Noraa --> I definitely agree here that Bell's characterization of MURDERCAT's progression on the slot wasn't very accurate. I also agree that the case seems rather genuine hence why I am willing to give MURDERCAT a chance to let me reevaluate him.

I simplify the image publicly, where I basically take shortcuts. I don't lay out all of the mental math I do which goes into showing the process behind me having reached my conclusions and considered other viewpoints and why I favor the one which I came up with. I put all that work in, but I do it in my head, rather than in the thread, with the thread being basically me outlining the final conclusion I came up with, skipping all of the intermediate steps where I did go through the effort of considering other possible takes, and mentally wrote the process for why they were less likely.

I can believe this actually. It may help though to include more of the intermediary thoughts because as you observe yourself, it is not obvious to other people that you do this. There is still the issue though that you tend to express reads with a high degree of confidence, and while it's good not to waver too much, it can also be useful to give the indication that it's possible you are wrong. (Also, don't feel compelled to respond here as this is rather a digression and is perhaps more suited elsewhere, but eh.)

I feel like this is an unfair take though I don't have any way of explaining that thought.

I kinda agree. Tone can be both hard to judge and hard to maintain. Though, even if the take is unfair or bad, what I am more interested in is whether it's a manufactured or genuine take. I think I can credibly see MURDERCAT believing this tone read to be a legit point in favor of scum!Noraa, and that's what matters.

So for this point, I can say I definitely disagree with MURDERCAT here and in fact, this looks cherry-picked. Something where he deliberately takes the parts most similar between games, while ignoring the surrounding areas that are different.

That is possible; I will have to reexamine the case and do more thorough research it seems.

I have a hard time reading both Solstice and Irchers posts. They are so annoyingly long.

Read them the same way you read mastina's post: slowly. Take notes if you need to. I think this style is better than the alternative of posting every comment as a separate post.

The game is boring

Okay, why is the game boring to you? Why aren't you invested in the game? Is it because the game is moving too fast? Too much noise relative to content? You're scum and already know the answers? Something else?

Can we not keep pushing the exact same people who we know will flip town just like BM did?

Is this really what is happening? Very few people talked about Bell yesterday, so certainly you aren't referring to that wagon. MURDERCAT posted his Noraa case, but I don't think people were really pushing against her until this day phase. So, I'm confused as to why you think we're all pushing the same people again.

How come there's a little lag in your posts Pichu?
It's not scummy, but I feel like you post to a different rhythm and it's kind of disorienting.

This comes across to me as a rather bad faith take. And though you claim that pichu isn't scummy for it, this feels like the kind of thing scum would post to shade a player.

I'm taking a break from this game, let me know when you guys decide you want to elim scum

Have you always had such focused reads? What I mean is that you seem to focus on maybe a very small subset of this game's player list, and anything from outside that subset you seem to be willfully ignoring/not evaluating. Like right here where you decide that since people aren't as confident on scum!Noraa rn, you might as well just leave and ignore the game.

far too confident

(About 277.) That's not something I caught the first time I read it, but looking at it again, that does seem unusually confident.

Overall, I really like the case pichu gives on Bell here and agree on many of the points brought up like how 2777 was a nonsensical progression especially from a town-aligned player.

HOMICDEHYENE is acting very town

I have no idea who you are referring to here. Also think this post from Dr Easy Bake might be +Town points for them? Since it actually has solving content? Idk, I haven't really seem their scum meta, but this seems a good sign at least.

Oh yeah, that’s an real good point for why Bell’s scumread of MC is fake. The "you were towny otherwise" part.
Apparently the case Bell didn’t read completely turned his read 180 on Murdercat and made Bell feel compelled to immediately vote them.

- Norwee

I think my one reservation (and a not particularly strong one at that) about this particular part of the case is that it seems a move "too scummy to be scum" to make. Like I think any reasonable person (and Bell seems a reasonable person) would realize that that reads progression is going to draw several eyebrows when posted, so I feel scum!Bell would be more inclined to make up some other reasons for scum!Murder than admit that outright. I still largely agree with the case though and think there are other issues with the play, but I am just pointing out one area where perhaps we're reading into it too much.

At bottom of page 120. The last 5 pages were slow to read because there were so many cases. So that leaves me 10 pages or so behind for tomorrow. I'll still try to give a full reads list tomorrow even if I'm still behind on the thread.

[Ircher]

@Ircher, why are you scum reading me?

(Note: I searched my username to find this post.) Main reason is that I think you were very under the radar Day 1. That might not seem that big of a deal, but I think it holds weight as it suggests you aren't really looking for scum; rather, you are going through the motions. pichu has stated many of the other reasons already and in a more eloquent way than I likely would have. That's the gist of it anyway.

[MURDERCAT]

I have no idea who you are referring to here.

Me. And I am back, who do you want me to give a read on?

[Ircher]

I have no idea who you are referring to here.

Me. And I am back, who do you want me to give a read on?

Let's go with Spiffeh and Creature.

[MURDERCAT]

Spiffeh I have a strong town read on

Creature I think my meta is out of date because when I was around in 2016 he was lim bait

I have no reason to scum read him at the moment other than being generally inactive but he's in the poe, similar to DEB

[Ircher]

Can you go in more detail about Spiffeh? I think he has posted some townie things/good takes, vut I don't think he's done anything that points strongly in favor of town!him.